SGOTM 12 - Regular

[PaperBeetle]

Mm, that reminds me, we probably still have several turns left on our gpt-from-Portugal deal. Even though it's a very one-sided deal, we would get a rep hit by interrupting it, so that's a reason to start with the Maya too.

Good point about foreign wars finding their way to Azjap. So perhaps the guys on the Persian continent are not good candidates. Everyone else is far enough away not to be much threat though? Your call. You'll need some embassies to look for wars of course. But we may as well keep setting them up. The AI doesn't seem in a hurry to embassy us.

After the Templars we would like to be able to build horses (i.e not have iron). Failing that, I suggest 1-turn dromons. I would prefer 3-turn knights to 2-turn maces I think, but they are both wasteful enough to make grown men weep.

Yup Feudalism gets war weariness. As bad as Republic . I don't think the Japs get war weariness worse than the Byzantines though, given that we aren't fighting Japan any more. I don't know for sure, but it sounds unlikely...

Yeah, the GA is going to catch us sooner or later, but I think Taxpayer showed that if you can manage to redline enemy ships they will run away and hide, even if they have no port to go to, so keep that option in mind.
The dromon is the only unit in the game which can both carry passengers and bombard!

 

[PaperBeetle]

Me again!

Of course, we shouldn't need to get into any war difficult enough to incur war weariness.

Erm, I had another thought.. ... .. oh yeah. Don't forget to investigate those Mayan towns just before dow. It will be especially handy if they have had time to settle down and bring their units back home a bit.

 

[Wardancer]

WW in Feudalism is pretty awful. Its worse than Monarchy for sure and may even be as bad as Republic.

 

[Wardancer]

Oh, I see PB already answered.

Nice analysis on the renegotiation ROP RAPE. I really don't get why that doesn't work but the tech trick does.

Would be interesting to see if it works with out having a ROP.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

There's only 3 brackets of WW: none, low and high, and demo is the only high, while you know which have none. That leaves Feud and republic with low, the same amount.

 

[Kulko]

I have a silly question

What in game terms is this renegiotiate Peace thing? When I open the screen of the Vikings or the Portugese I only get the Options of RoP and Alliance agaist ...

 

[PaperBeetle]

Peace is an ongoing deal, so at the bottom of the talking-to-an-AI screen you can switch from New deals to Active deals. Click on Peace Treaty to renegotiate it, but be careful! because once you've clicked it there's no going back: your options are war, or a 20-turn peace deal on whatever terms the AI will accept.

 

[Kulko]

Ok found it.

So I declare war on france.
Then I talk to the americans to renegotiate and attack france too. and Then wait what happens and hope France doesn't onbliterate them? Otr should I rather send the vikings, but I would hate them to be at war with us.

 

[socralynnek]

What? Is it already the 1st of April somewhere in the world that BeF and BCLG have already switched avatars?

Kulko: If you click on Active deals there you get a screen where the Peace Deal and other per turn deals are shown. If you click on Peace, you can renegotiate it and link it to an alliance e.g.

 

[PaperBeetle]

And I think that means we can't use any renegotiation tricks on the Portuguese because we (a) don't want to be at war with them, (b) don't want to be at peace with them for the next 20 turns, and (c) probably can't afford to go to war with them the instant we finish the Mayans, which would be the consequence of tying the peace and alliance deals together.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Hoohoo, I like the France plan! That's got balls. If the French kill the Americans that's okay in my book. They look to me like our top option for being an AI who can do research.

 

[Kulko]

OK I go ahead with france then Hopefully they have build lots of wonders and not too much untis, making it a fair fight.

 

[Wardancer]

I like your thinking on France too Kulko. It does have balls. Doing the same with Scandinavia would be even bigger balls though - why don't we do that just so we can display to everyone how big our balls are

 

[Kulko]

First 4 turns played, will continue tomorrow during my long train ride. Will post results at about 8pm GMT. Screenshots from Embassies will follow tomorrow too.

Preflight:

Civ reinstalled – check
Civ Assist – check
SGOTM Pack – check

Ready to go

MM Con to give away cow,
Rush Lib in Osaka
Set Bombay to worker
Pull all units into Delhi to reduce unrest and heal them faster.
Buy Emb in Scandinavia, unfortunately they are not at war.

IBT:
Osaka Lib  Harbour
Kyoto Worker  Worker
SoZ  AC

Turn 1

Rather Boring
Buy Embassy from Iro and Americans to keep occupied.
Declare on France and draw America into it for Currency.

Turn 2
Upgrade Mace
Ship Workers back to Japsteca to clear jungles

Turn 3
Nothing happens I bring my troops to bear on the Mayan Rearguard.

IBT:

Oops one Unit too much out of Delhi.

Turn 4:
I can easily attack now and kill 4 mayan units, but I am still worried about the 3 mayan Galleys roaming about. It will be impossible to damage them all before they can attack. So I will have to retreat all my ships into port and let them sail through to portugal, to have fun there.

 

[Kulko]

Turn 4 (cont.)

Declare War on the Mayans.
Kill 3 Javs and a warrior (loosing one Archer)
Bombard one elite Galley own to 3 (hope thats enough)
Retreat all the ships away from Cichen Itza.

The Great Seafaring Portugese are too stupid to build an harbour. So I have to buy them in for Literature. I also buy the Incan for Currency.

IBT:
The Evil Empire (France) Buys the Hittites into the war with us. Looks like we finally have some War happiness.

The Puny Mayans send about 13 Javellins against India and the Portugese support us with 3 horses and a few footsoldiers. I hope Our Army can handle that.

KT finished build Knight(I will try to change that to a horse, when I can find somebody who is able to buy our iron.

Turn5:
Not much hppend, as I mostly fortify against teh onslaught and build up the forces needed.

I try to sell our iron to the ottomans, but they have seemingly their own. WhenI close the trade screen Civ closes.

Sorry Guys, I have no idea, if I miscliked something at this point or what else happened, so far the reinstalled Civ run smoothly. Reload the autosave and redo.

I can find nobody else interested in our Iron so I sell the sultan currency for his Spices to reduce the lux tax to 20% until the harbour in Delhi is functional.

IBT:

The French get the Great Lib too,

Turn 6:
I decide to buy the Mongols in against the hittites, as they are a bit to close form y liking and I want to keep them Occupied. The great Khan joins the battle without even asking for 1 gp. Ist his how a world war starts?

I set Teo to medivials but the next player might want to change that to baracks, or Knights.

IBT:

The Mayans avoid my army on a hill and rather fight it out with Portugal. Henrys guys should have stayed with ships, as land battle obviously isn’t their strong point.

Turn 7:

Army killst wo Javs
A scouting Dromons tries to find the mayan Galleys and is stuck without Movement.

 

[Kulko]

I am stopping here again, because I feel a bit unsure how to proceed.

I would disband the galley to avoid being attacked and start a golden age, but I feel, that sooner por later I will have to ship my troops over and then he will bring one of his 2 ships out of CI and attack. So maybe we better bring the troops around to the defense of India and a sneak attack on Portugal and try to slip our army behind the enmy troops over the gap.

I will upload the save so you can look at it and also offer critical opinians about the builds and the MM.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Well you can't disband a unit with no movement points, so we have to take our chances there. It won't attack if it is carrying something.

The war outside India looks like it is going according to plan. Portugal has a pretty scary number of units, so I'm glad we didn't go head to head with them, although we will probably have to do that next - I imagine that will involve several turns of our entire militray parked in or behind Bombay, killing things as they land in our territory. The dromons will be a huge help in this endevaour, so let's build more - 1 turn dromons out of Constan, unless we have the GA, in which case it does 1 turn maces.
Edit: well not that much help actually, since Bombay is not coastal, so we can't sail into it and bombard.

Back to the now... on this interturn, the 8 Mayan units WW of Delhi can threaten us by moving E, and the Portuguese could only attack one of them in response. If they do, we need to ship-chain one dromonful of ACs into Delhi to defend it. That should be enough, as the army can kill 3 of them that turn (with the last attack done out of Delhi probably, and I would use its last move this turn to kill one of them as well) and the ACs can kill two (cross the river, attack, cross back). The archer from the hill would just go and fortify in Delhi.

But... I don't think that stack will move E anyway. They should head for the weaker targets, i.e. the Portuguese units in the field. In that case, our 3 dromonfuls of units must head straight for Chichen: they will unload in 670bc, north of Chichen is better than south, as the Inca may already be taking up all the space on the south side. And our army can probably come down to support the attack: by 670bc it can be fortified on the tile 1N of Chichen. So in 650bc the Mayans would be gone.

Unless... there is something on the Mayan galley that lies next to our wine. Which seems likely otherwise where is it going? If it unloads units this interturn, those units will get two moves to do some damage. I don't see any real danger from such a landing on Byzantium provided we blockade our wines and the roaded hill with our currently-unused slaves. Occupying the hill will also give us a good view of what that galley is doing if it doesn't dump into Byzantium. The galley's other options would be (a) launching an attack on Kyoto (but he would need horses to reach it, and he doesn't seem to be using them) which we would counter by whipping a pike down there, and (b) sailing twice to reach Osaka. Again, the appropriate defense would seem to be a slave blockade; by occupying the tile SW of Osaka, and putting Kyoto's archer on the roaded hill, we would prevent any landings which could threaten Osaka before we take Chichen.

So what happens after the Mayan war? I think we have to go to Portugal next, because if we attack the Inca, we will break our trade route to the Ottoman. It would be nice to be able to attack Portugal before their units get back from the Mayan campaign, but I don't see how we can acheive this, particularly given Oporto's location. So I guess that means we have a little time to build up forces in India before we attack Portugal.

Re: the iron...
If we are decided to go to Portugal next, we could consider gifting our iron to Osman, but it would comit us not attacking the Inca for at least 20 turns. But why don't we just play standard disconnect/reconnect instead? The problem is the mine on the iron, but we don't need that to build knights, which is what we build anyway if we can't get rid of the iron! So next turn we could pillage the iron, after queueing up the next knight in Constan and start rebuilding the mine. We'd have to bring more slaves over from Azjap for a bit, and there would still be a couple of messy turns building archers or something, but after that we'd be churning out horses like there's no tomorrow.

On micro... Constan should finish the knight by working coast instead of iron, for +1fpt, 21spt. Everything else seems fine.

 

[madviking]

Bump and comment
Well, BUMP!

Secondly if you wonder what's going on with 'poly, don't ask me, I'm in it for the spamming

 

[socralynnek]

Hey madviking, seems you are up. Can you take some turns after we discuss what to do?

oh, Otto founded his 2nd city...finally he found the time to build some galley...

otherwise I have nothing more to say after reading PBs post.
Do we really have enough workers to the disconnect/reconnect with our iron?
We can't upgrade then every turn, I guess.
But you are right, if that works we get a massive army in almost no time.

 

[madviking]

I dunno if kulko sent this save or not, but I would imagine the plan would do a le tour de la grand prix through the contys.