Yep, we can also insert the lib instead of the worker (maybe 2 / 4 turns later) I just wanted to seize the filled granary best. But I did not have the support cost in mind
Maybe we get enough cash to research at full speed till the end...
SGOTM 12 - Spooks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Maybe we get enough cash to research at full speed till the end...
WackenOpenAir
Deity
-I still think we should definately not trade math before we tried trading a new tech with it. A new tech can't be far away so be patient for a bit.
-To build the library in 1 turn, we need to disband 1 warrior and do 1 pop rush. If we don't do this, we would disband the warrior as soon as we hit the max support. Keeping it all this time will cost us like 20gpt, of course it will also cost the worker. I think we should disband the warriors when they start costing money, and we can just keep the worker to work, or use it when we build a harbor or library.
-We could disband all 3 warriors in 1 turn and build a 1 turn spearmen. I surely expect our stack to revieve at least 1 attack. The spear can take this attack just as well as a sword, and it reduces a turn on our attack.
-The harbor is also very important. I think we can decide when we will build these things when our attack is on its way.
You played just 1 turn now paul ?
How about proceeding until a new tech is invented?
-To build the library in 1 turn, we need to disband 1 warrior and do 1 pop rush. If we don't do this, we would disband the warrior as soon as we hit the max support. Keeping it all this time will cost us like 20gpt, of course it will also cost the worker. I think we should disband the warriors when they start costing money, and we can just keep the worker to work, or use it when we build a harbor or library.
-We could disband all 3 warriors in 1 turn and build a 1 turn spearmen. I surely expect our stack to revieve at least 1 attack. The spear can take this attack just as well as a sword, and it reduces a turn on our attack.
-The harbor is also very important. I think we can decide when we will build these things when our attack is on its way.
You played just 1 turn now paul ?
How about proceeding until a new tech is invented?
I have just played one single turn.
We can't start war before at least MM is available anyway (+2 turns at least for the second dromon). We should not dow before we definitely know when we get it - ie. before we already got it.
The harbor is not urgently necessary before we get the second town, right?
A spear might be an idea, spares another turn indeed. We might get it for 2 warriors disbanded and use the other for the library pop-rush. If we get lit before we hit our unit support maximum.
We can't start war before at least MM is available anyway (+2 turns at least for the second dromon). We should not dow before we definitely know when we get it - ie. before we already got it.
The harbor is not urgently necessary before we get the second town, right?
A spear might be an idea, spares another turn indeed. We might get it for 2 warriors disbanded and use the other for the library pop-rush. If we get lit before we hit our unit support maximum.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
2 is enough for the spear if the plain is mined.
We certainly wont have lit AND 20spt before unit support is maxed.
We certainly wont have lit AND 20spt before unit support is maxed.
in 1950 finally the first new tech comes in. It's Poly at the Ottomans.
I stop here for discussion.
Here's the turnlog so far:
154g out there, 61 we could get for Writing. We are down to 9g.
Osman won't sell Poly for Writing, Maths, 9g, 15gpt (all we can offer).
Shall we gift Writing to see what we get for Philo plus Maths?
I'd cash in for Writing this turn. Get HBR in that process.
Our forces so far: 5 swords and a spear.
I stop here for discussion.
Here's the turnlog so far:
Spoiler :
It met Spain (11g, Writing, Maths) before
154g out there, 61 we could get for Writing. We are down to 9g.
Osman won't sell Poly for Writing, Maths, 9g, 15gpt (all we can offer).
Shall we gift Writing to see what we get for Philo plus Maths?
I'd cash in for Writing this turn. Get HBR in that process.
Our forces so far: 5 swords and a spear.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Philo is actually cheaper than Writing. Of course, he could be researching it (or Math, for that matter). In any case, I strongly doubt that Philo plus Math would get it. We would have to put Currency on the table - and it's not time for that yet. Agreed that it's time to get what value we can from Writing.
killercane
Deity
Selling writing around sounds good to me. Any screenshots?
Andronicus
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2005
- Messages
- 1,672
Also agree on selling writing around - it will help fund ongoing lit research
MM must come on line any turn now - suggest waiting for that before trading Ottomen for poly. May be worthwhile gifting Ottomen writing to enable a MM + maths +/- philo trade with Otto for poly once MM avail.
Re HBR - I thought the idea was leave it till last. (Of course if we have to research construction or CoL ourselves then trading for HBR earlier is best - lets hope all these deity AIs get their research moving)
MM must come on line any turn now - suggest waiting for that before trading Ottomen for poly. May be worthwhile gifting Ottomen writing to enable a MM + maths +/- philo trade with Otto for poly once MM avail.
Re HBR - I thought the idea was leave it till last. (Of course if we have to research construction or CoL ourselves then trading for HBR earlier is best - lets hope all these deity AIs get their research moving)
Andronicus
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2005
- Messages
- 1,672
I take it the plan is build 7 swords and 1 spear to take on 2 dromons as discussed above.
This means we can build 1 more sword before further delay in MM delays attack plans (allowing for 7th sword to be built after 2 dromons).
Potentially if MM comes in next 2 turns we could be landing outside Aztec capital in 9 turns
2 turns for sword no 6 (2)
4 turns for 2 dromons (6)
2 turns for sword no 7 (8) -> loads onto dromon with 3 others, land outside capital following turn (9), attack (and hopefully capture 1 turn later ie 10 turns from now).
This would imply dow in 2 turns, all depends on whether MM avail
We need money for embassy - may need to turn research down.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Otto dont have HBR. Is it maybe possible if we trade hbr and the world's gold ?
Else we should decide if it is time to invest currency.
Else we should decide if it is time to invest currency.
Sorry, no screenies, it was late yesterday
Nothing special, the trading options was the most exciting to report.
I'm at work right now. I will continue to play in 13 hours (if I'm allowed...)
IIRC this was just an idea to get free techs if we can't go to F4 via the big Picture to gift other SCI into MA before we get our free tech
Or can someone explain the idea to me?
I'd only give cash to Ottos if I can get it back on the same turn, that's if MM is around.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Sorry, no screenies, it was late yesterday
Nothing special, the trading options was the most exciting to report.
I'm at work right now. I will continue to play in 13 hours (if I'm allowed...)
IIRC this was just an idea to get free techs if we can't go to F4 via the big Picture to gift other SCI into MA before we get our free tech
Or can someone explain the idea to me?
I'd only give cash to Ottos if I can get it back on the same turn, that's if MM is around.
If you do have the option to trade poly now, you should pay everything for it possible. That allows you to get back our gpt from india.
If you don't trade poly, god knows what is gonna happen with our gpt and with our semi-monopoplies.
After selling around Writing we had 60g, virtual money could be extended to 17gpt.
I bought Poly for Writing, HBR, Maths, 50g, 15gpt.
Sold it to India for 13gpt + 5g.
Sold Philo to Osman for 8gpt + 49g.
End a turn at -11gpt with 64g in treasury
On the interturn someone starts The Great Lighthouse - guess who:
The Aztecs
Now that's why I stop here again:
I can buy MM from Aztecs for Maths, Philo, Poly, 6gpt, 44g.
Try to sell MM to Osman for some more of our gpt.
But that gpt-deal would prevent us from attacking the Aztecs.
I'd suggest to do that deal and attack Japan first, allying Aztecs.
Aztecs will almost certainly build SoZ and GLH in their GA then.
But with what can we bribe them?
Or should we rather wait till someone else gets MM?
Here's the 1870 BC save
I'll take another day for discussion.
edit: Now how about this as a post #1,000
I bought Poly for Writing, HBR, Maths, 50g, 15gpt.
Sold it to India for 13gpt + 5g.
Sold Philo to Osman for 8gpt + 49g.
End a turn at -11gpt with 64g in treasury
On the interturn someone starts The Great Lighthouse - guess who:
The Aztecs
Now that's why I stop here again:
I can buy MM from Aztecs for Maths, Philo, Poly, 6gpt, 44g.
Try to sell MM to Osman for some more of our gpt.
But that gpt-deal would prevent us from attacking the Aztecs.
I'd suggest to do that deal and attack Japan first, allying Aztecs.
Aztecs will almost certainly build SoZ and GLH in their GA then.
But with what can we bribe them?
Or should we rather wait till someone else gets MM?
Here's the 1870 BC save
I'll take another day for discussion.
edit: Now how about this as a post #1,000
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Let's first celebrate your 1000th post 
![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
Lets see with whom we share techs now.
Math: Persia, Spain, Egypt,Greece,Ottomans,Iroqios, India(7)
Philo: Ottomans, India.
Poly: Ottomans, India.
Currency: None.
Math is now common knowledge, i suggest trading it around to anyone willing to empy his savings deposit for us.
2 of our techs are only shared by India and Ottomans.
We have some reasons to make this trade:
-We can sell it to Otto and India so that noone has anything to offer them for philo and poly, so we keep our semi monopoly.
-We Trading it to India will make them start currency earlier.
-We will be able to make dromons !
-Ottomans will pay us 4gpt for MM
We don't really need our semi-monopolies anymore though, it will only be good for getting some gold from them and for getting them to war with eachother if needed. Bringing the
Aztecs may indeed become difficult here. So waiting surely is an option. If we wait, it will probably be traded with India and/or Ottomans. Most likely, they will give them the techs we have to offer, so we will still not be able to trade it. As soon as any of the others then invents it, it will be cheap for us. However, they must do so in 4 turns max as we want to build dromons.
Let's assume India or Ottomans are gonna research construction (they also have the option to go for COL)
It will cost them 480 beakers. I think we can expect this to take about 15 turns.
We on the other hand, will be ready researching Literature in some 7 turns. So we could well be running tax for maybe 10 turns, or maybe research COL and try for the free tech trick.
Japan is also willing to pay us 2gpt.
I think we can wait for someone else to get it, most of them shoulld be researching MM now.
Lets see with whom we share techs now.
Math: Persia, Spain, Egypt,Greece,Ottomans,Iroqios, India(7)
Philo: Ottomans, India.
Poly: Ottomans, India.
Currency: None.
Math is now common knowledge, i suggest trading it around to anyone willing to empy his savings deposit for us.
2 of our techs are only shared by India and Ottomans.
We have some reasons to make this trade:
-We can sell it to Otto and India so that noone has anything to offer them for philo and poly, so we keep our semi monopoly.
-We Trading it to India will make them start currency earlier.
-We will be able to make dromons !
-Ottomans will pay us 4gpt for MM
We don't really need our semi-monopolies anymore though, it will only be good for getting some gold from them and for getting them to war with eachother if needed. Bringing the
Aztecs may indeed become difficult here. So waiting surely is an option. If we wait, it will probably be traded with India and/or Ottomans. Most likely, they will give them the techs we have to offer, so we will still not be able to trade it. As soon as any of the others then invents it, it will be cheap for us. However, they must do so in 4 turns max as we want to build dromons.
Let's assume India or Ottomans are gonna research construction (they also have the option to go for COL)
It will cost them 480 beakers. I think we can expect this to take about 15 turns.
We on the other hand, will be ready researching Literature in some 7 turns. So we could well be running tax for maybe 10 turns, or maybe research COL and try for the free tech trick.
Japan is also willing to pay us 2gpt.
I think we can wait for someone else to get it, most of them shoulld be researching MM now.
killercane
Deity
Could we make the trades all along with an alliance against Japan? So that when Japan is destroyed, we end our gpt payments from Aztecs and then be able to turn on them? Never mind, we would need more dromons for the Japan adventure, it would take that much longer to get after them, probably all 20 turns of alliance.
Waiting may work fine as well. If we give Aztecs Currency for war declaration, and we kill them before Construction is known, that shouldnt pose the problem of cutting us out of the trading loop should it?
Waiting may work fine as well. If we give Aztecs Currency for war declaration, and we kill them before Construction is known, that shouldnt pose the problem of cutting us out of the trading loop should it?
I think we get a rep hit, if we cancel a gpt-for-lump-trade. And that's what we do if we destroy that oponenent we allied against.
IIRC you only get no rep hit, if that alliance is just based on gpt-payment (or you payed the only lump sum).
imo if we do that trade we cannot find a way to attack Aztecs before the deal runs out (unless they dow).
You think conquering Japan will be tougher then Aztecs?
I think it's easier. One turn longer - to get our forces from coast to capital (if dromons start soon). And one more move for reinforcements once dromons are 3N of Kyoto.
But less resistance by not facing nasty jags and a GA.
And Aztecs might build something useful during their GA if not directly attacked (by us).
I'm pretty sure they have contact to Portugese and India (first time ever I saw an Indian curragh - did they start with one?)...
(edit: No, I remember in SGotm10 Gandhi also launched a curragh - it smashed into our curragh on its maiden trip - quite a traumatic experience for Gandhi...
)
WackenOpenAir
Deity
I think we should just wait a moment guys. Most of those 30 AI's should be researching MM, it should be cheap soon.
I really wouldn't like to sell currency or Lit before construction.
I really wouldn't like to sell currency or Lit before construction.
You think we'd have to offer Curr to Aztecs to join our crusade?
It would be great to know how much gpt an alliance would cost. It won't be less then 20gpt, right?
What do you guys think?
If we find out we can't afford it after declaring on Japan we'd have to wait for CoL or Cons to come in...
Waiting two more turns for MM (or CoL) might be the best option...
It would be great to know how much gpt an alliance would cost. It won't be less then 20gpt, right?
What do you guys think?
If we find out we can't afford it after declaring on Japan we'd have to wait for CoL or Cons to come in...
Waiting two more turns for MM (or CoL) might be the best option...
WackenOpenAir
Deity
You think we'd have to offer Curr to Aztecs to join our crusade?
Thats the problem, if we trade MM now, it's the only thing we have to offer.
So yes, they would require currency, and we could not declare on them either since we'd have a gpt deal.
Paying currency or big gpt for the alliance is no option imo.
Okay, I'm convinced to wait a couple of turns. It can't be long, right? 
When any other civ (other then India and Ottomans) gets MM I'll get it there for all we got except Curr & Lit.
While bribing Japan is cheaper I'm still tending to rather ally Aztecs to let them build wonders in their golden Age. At least TGL in their captial they should be able to finish for us before we take on them.
Whom shall we attack first?
pro Japan :
- weaker target (no GA, no Jags)
- Aztecs get chance to finish a wonder
pro Aztecs
- slightly quicker to reach (~1 turn, if MM comes in soon)
- better land (not just swamps and hills)
- Japanese cheaper to ally
I'm slightly in favor of attacking Japan first.
When any other civ (other then India and Ottomans) gets MM I'll get it there for all we got except Curr & Lit.
While bribing Japan is cheaper I'm still tending to rather ally Aztecs to let them build wonders in their golden Age. At least TGL in their captial they should be able to finish for us before we take on them.
Whom shall we attack first?
pro Japan :
- weaker target (no GA, no Jags)
- Aztecs get chance to finish a wonder
pro Aztecs
- slightly quicker to reach (~1 turn, if MM comes in soon)
- better land (not just swamps and hills)
- Japanese cheaper to ally
I'm slightly in favor of attacking Japan first.
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