SGOTM 12 - Spooks

[Abegweit]

We still have a sword and MDI. We have 1 vWarrior and 1 will be ready in 3 turns.
It takes the vWarrior 4 turns to walk to a place where it can be upgraded. It should start walking to Kyoto immeadiately.
Both warriors can be upgraded there in 3 and 4 turns respectively. I think both the sword and MDI should walk there as well. 1 should start moving immeadiately, the other can wait a turn, they will then arive in 4 and 5 turns respectively, just when the upgraded warriors are able to board.

We need 2 boats there in 4 and 5 turns respectively. You probably planned both to come from the capital. We will also need a boat at home to move the workers. So we need a third boat. I already dislike the capital building a boat right now instead of a harbor, and i surely don't like it to build another one. The Library in Teno imo should become a dromon.

I'm not sure what you mean. We have two vWarriors. One is already in Kyoto. The other is in Teno. The one in Teo is a reg. Furthermore, you can't upgrade in Kyoto. The only place currently possible is Const. Osaka will work once the harbour is finished in the capital.

What about building an LB in Teno? and whipping a dromon in Teo if you really don't want to build the last one in the capital? It would be available four turns from now, just when Const has built its first worker.

The current dromon picks up the LB and and the warrior from Teno, sails to Osaka and upgrades. The one currently under construction in Const sails to Kyoto, picks up forces and the two set. The one whipped in Teo can then serve as our home boat. Kyoto gets to keep one MP, which it will badly need. The warrior is upgraded on turn three and both boats set sail on turn four.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

They have no Iron, if we start them a war againt the Vikings, they will surely move out most of their units. Attacking with 10 MDI, i don't really fear a faillure.

The bigger danger is if they return many units from the Viking front to retake the city. In that case, we need to gift Paris to Egypt.

The backup forces are needed in case we lose a lot of units on Paris and we won't have enough to take orleans. I am fully confident that 10 units is enough to capture Paris.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I'm not sure what you mean. We have two vWarriors. One is already in Kyoto. The other is in Teno. The one in Teo is a reg. Furthermore, you can't upgrade in Kyoto. The only place currently possible is Const. Osaka will work once the harbour is finished in the capital.

If we swich our capital build to a harbor right now, or even if we swich it to a harbor after a curragh, Osaka can upgrade the warrior that it will produce itself in 3 turns and one that comes walking from Kyoto in 4 turns.

 

[Abegweit]

Peace with Rome may not be needed. No boat can touch us next interturn. They only move 2 tiles in shallow water.
Next turn, we will be in deeper water again. War with Rome still provides us happiness. (how much do they offer us for peace?)

All they have. 1g I coulda gotten 9 earlier. Guess I missed an opportunity. Good point about them moving slowly.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Ah, they are offering all their gold for peace

 

[Andronicus]

The bigger danger is if they return many units from the Viking front to retake the city. In that case, we need to gift Paris to Egypt.

I fear flipping as much if not more than French retaking Paris
If we gift Paris to Egypt is it still likely to flip to French before we can take Orleans thus eliminating French flip risk?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

It may still flip, but maybe not the same turn.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Maybe it would be better to take orleans first. This town has less culture and should have a lower flip risk. If we take orleans however, French units will return from the Viking front, and they will be in the Paris area by the time we get there.

Gifting it and loading our units on ships again could however solve that problem. As soon as we loaded our units and orleans is in other hands, there again is nothing for the French to return to. Their units should go back to the Scandinavians. Now, we can take paris and all their units will be gone.

Instead of Egypt, we could also choose another civ to gift orleans to. One that has more culture and is closerby to France.

If we are unfortunate and Orleans flips back to France before we take Paris, it will be easier to retake it again than if Paris would flip because it is further away from the scandinavian front.

If you want extra safety againt flipping, we should send even another pair of boats with units, but i don't think we can gather those in a timely fashion and in whatever time we can do it, it will be costly to do so.

 

[Abegweit]

If we swich our capital build to a harbor right now, or even if we swich it to a harbor after a curragh, Osaka can upgrade the warrior that it will produce itself in 3 turns and one that comes walking from Kyoto in 4 turns.

Ah. You had it walking to Kyoto, not from it. The folks of that city are going to be mad at us very soon. I had forgotten that we have another warrior coming soon. That's important.

Another possibility.

If we build boats in both Teo and Teno, the capital could switch immediately. send the MDI and eSword up to Osaka instead of the warrior. The boat from Teno sails with the warrior to Osaka. Upgrade the two warriors and move out.

 

[Andronicus]

Some gpt avail if we wish
Babs have 3gpt but we would have to give up mono (? wait till we have our harbour and give them ivory)
Spain has 3gpt (+10g) for construction

 

[Paul#42]

Peace with Rome may not be needed. No boat can touch us next interturn. They only move 2 tiles in shallow water.
Next turn, we will be in deeper water again. War with Rome still provides us happiness. (how much do they offer us for peace?)

Paul, apearently we don't get any AC's as long as ivory is not connected to kyoto.

Rome offers all their 1 gold piece...
War happiness is important. We can still sign peace if two legionaires lad next to Const.
Didn't we get AC in last SGotm from Thebes while we had no Ivory :
I guess I'm getting old... (I'm not 42 years old btw)

A slave dropped on southern tip cannot be reached by defenders in Paris

Good idea, but it's too late to send a bikini babe to the Cotè Azure. Our forces would have to wait for the second wave...

Btw: Shouldn't we ignite some war over there?
It would be nice to have 100% assurance that there is a land-link between French and Vikings...

 

[Andronicus]

Didn't we get AC in last SGotm from Thebes while we had no Ivory :
I guess I'm getting old... (I'm not 42 years old btw)

We got AC as soon as ivory connected to Thebes (SoZ city)

Wish I was only 42

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I don't know about that AC without ivory, but that was the explanation someone posted for Japan not getting one.

Using the warrior from Teno is an option indeed, don't know what town needs it more.

We will start the war there soon.


How large do you guys estimate the chance that orleans will flip if we gift it to a neaby civ there?

A city cant flip the first turn after you conquer it, does anyone know if this also is the case for gifting ?

 

[killercane]

If we want I will play tonight. Judging from WOA's graphs, building the workers comes as first importance now after Paris expedition. Switching to harbor and then going workers is what I vote to do. Of course let me look at the save and see first!

Yes, until we get ivory there no ACs.

You know, igniting some war over there in Scandinavia is good if France gets all their troops there killing people (. We then take Vikings out, THEN ship back over to Egypt, and build FP a bit quicker than planned.

I am somewhat worried about gunpowder now that we take them out. Maybe someone else can be put on guns to be sure that it gets done sometime in the near future.

 

[Andronicus]

The current dromon picks up the LB and and the warrior from Teno, sails to Osaka and upgrades. The one currently under construction in Const sails to Kyoto, picks up forces and the two set. The one whipped in Teo can then serve as our home boat. Kyoto gets to keep one MP, which it will badly need. The warrior is upgraded on turn three and both boats set sail on turn four.

If we return the curragh near Babylon it can be upgraded in 8 turns to serve as our home boat saving any need for whipping

 

[Abegweit]

Both Paris and Orleans are currently building wonders. Paris will finish on turn 5. Orleans never will. That's a fairly important reason for going after the capital first. Furthermore, the ships traveling the southern route have several additional moves to get to Orleans. They come at Paris from the south. The others are arriving from the northeast.

Actually, because Orleans will be wonder-happy flips aren't a danger. Just re-take the city if it happens and wait for the reinforcements to arrive if this turns out to be needed.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

No hurry playing tonight IMO.

Lets think things over properly instead.

Although i actually can't wait to have France either

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Both Paris and Orleans are currently building wonders. Paris will finish on turn 5. Orleans never will. That's a fairly important reason for going after the capital first. Furthermore, the ships traveling the southern route have several additional moves to get to Orleans. They come at Paris from the south. The others are arriving from the northeast.

Actually, because Orleans will be wonder-happy flips aren't a danger. Just re-take the city if it happens and wait for the reinforcements to arrive if this turns out to be needed.

Is the southern approach even safe for GA ?

 

[Andronicus]

Using the warrior from Teno is an option indeed, don't know what town needs it more.

Leaving Teno open is risky now Romans have MM
They can drop off 2 legionary on forest outside Teno from the coast at their southern tip (moves 3 tiles through sea)
Its also an open invitation to the AIs to our south

 

[Andronicus]

Both Paris and Orleans are currently building wonders. Paris will finish on turn 5. Orleans never will.

Actually Orleans will be producing approx 24spt before corruption working 11 tiles (as Paris was in embassy screenie), perhaps 21-22spt after - it requires 360 shields -> 17-18 turns.
It started building Sun Tzu's between 1375BC (turn 65) and 1250BC (turn 70)
- that makes it 10-15 turns, leaving between 2-8 turns for completion!