SGOTM 12 - Spooks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Oh, thats because i think you edited most of the text into your post later. We see no new posts in the thread, we wait 
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Mongols, Americans & Persia
I had thought we wanted to ally Persia against Mongols - or was it just me?
Now with just 5 turns left - let our alliance with America run out and sign peace?
I'd let it run out.
Greece, Iroqois and Russia
I plan to attack Greece after the Ivory deal expired (2 turns).
Iroqouis should fall easily when our reinforcements arrive. That's four-five turns from now. Should we ally Russia now against them to weaken and expose both?
I think we should attack Russia anyway to get Sparta then? Their other towns are not too bad either and they and Greece are (apart from Carthage) the only witness of our treachery.
Our bored armies could then take care of Carthage (ceterum censeo carthaginem delendam esse - did I say that before?)
I don't know if we should take them out. Can't we keep them in 1 town till the end and ally everyone against them for the vote ? That way noone will care about it as they are at war with russia.
Is the MGL meant to rush a hospital in Athens? After we pop-rushed the Lib in 9 turns?
Sounds good. Too bad no new leaders in those 9 turns
Paris starts a factory after the hospital - what do the other metros do with their shields? Wealth?
Wealth sounds fine.
Oh just sell em.
I don't see that happening, but sure, const could maybe build it.
About worker joins and cost: In two turns we get another shock in unit support: 8 cities grow to metros, causing us to lose 16 (?) free units' support = 48 gpt.
That will give our scientists some distraction. We need to check every single unit if we can keep it... However if our military shrinks to far, Americans, Carthaginians or alike might get hostile... I don't have to tell you guys what will happen if Americans backstab us, right?
Yep, we lose some more gold. More reason to get rep parts asap imo.
They won't be our opponent on the election, we should ally everybody against our most probable opponent - Persia or - Mongols
diplomatic Genghis Khan 
Of course we can still ally everbody against Genghis (or X-Man) and Cathy...
So I just take Sparta?
IIRC a disbanded (empty) army is just 100 shields, right?
Well we've been there before. Anyone dare to count the turns our 1st ever MGL had to wait to be crowned in Paris?
It's so little money
Here's the situation after 1.5 turns:
save
Spoiler :
I will continue tomorrow.
killercane
Deity
Athens is kind of a crappy location for hospital rush. I would move him over to Arab land since those cities can grow bigger faster. However we might want to keep them below 6 for now due to gpt issues. Maybe rush the hospital at size 7 and then draft it back down. We will get another leader soon with so many elites.
Wealth sounds fine. Const and Paris on 1 turn workers is what I say. Paris will need some more irrigation to achieve the 1 turners. I would say pump it up to size 20-21 and then build workers/irrigate until it can do 1 turners. Probably all the workers need to stop their jobs at Orleans to irrigate Paris.
If America attacks we can always draft. On that note, I think all troops in the core should be disbanded for the unit support.
Electricity in 6 is the goal! I think it can be done. If need be Arab lands and Iro land can use scientists. When they get workers down there they will grow back really well. Hopefully we can make 1100 bpt by the end of your turns.
Wealth sounds fine. Const and Paris on 1 turn workers is what I say. Paris will need some more irrigation to achieve the 1 turners. I would say pump it up to size 20-21 and then build workers/irrigate until it can do 1 turners. Probably all the workers need to stop their jobs at Orleans to irrigate Paris.
If America attacks we can always draft. On that note, I think all troops in the core should be disbanded for the unit support.
Electricity in 6 is the goal! I think it can be done. If need be Arab lands and Iro land can use scientists. When they get workers down there they will grow back really well. Hopefully we can make 1100 bpt by the end of your turns.
killercane
Deity
Paris doesnt need a factory yet. It can build UN in 10 turns or less when the time comes. I think we should put it on workers.
The beaker rate sounds good. A few more worker adds and scientists will give us 900+.
The beaker rate sounds good. A few more worker adds and scientists will give us 900+.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Oh yes, i thought you were talking about the greek capital that we still have to take from Russia for the hospital rush. Athens is not so good indeed.
"If need be Arab lands and Iro land can use scientists"
Only if it does not delay growth. That is, make scientists to prevent cities from getting size 7, but not to speed up research. That is principally wrong. food is more important still than science. And if we lose a turn on an early tech by giving priority to growth, we will win it back later.
True, Paris doesn't need a fact yet. Being larger than size 20 is not more important than any other scientists, so it is ok to have it make some workers it size 20+
"If need be Arab lands and Iro land can use scientists"
Only if it does not delay growth. That is, make scientists to prevent cities from getting size 7, but not to speed up research. That is principally wrong. food is more important still than science. And if we lose a turn on an early tech by giving priority to growth, we will win it back later.
True, Paris doesn't need a fact yet. Being larger than size 20 is not more important than any other scientists, so it is ok to have it make some workers it size 20+
WackenOpenAir
Deity
I think lisbon would be best for a Hospital rush. But, looking again, Athens isn't all that bad after all. It will have 13 grassland tiles. Lisbon has 15, Sparta 17, Medina 9 and mecca only 7.
Paris could make workers, but in between the currently 3 turn workers, it would have to spend 98 shields on someting else. On option would be to build a galleon and MI in those 2 between turns and sail those over to spain where we disband them for 22 shields.
We could do the same with our wealth cities. Certainly Delhi and Bombay should build units for disbanding in the portugese towns as those will not need any transporting.
Dromons at kyoto are gonna be upgraded to bring workers southward ?
Nfalls can use its excess pop to rushbuild a library instead of starve. It can also start pop rushing a hospital then. It has space to grow to size 15. It can also use some growth when it is below 7 again. Growth that can be used to rush the hospital citizen by citizen. The other drafted units should also be disbanded into the city as soon as can be aranged to reduce upkeep cost.
Paris could make workers, but in between the currently 3 turn workers, it would have to spend 98 shields on someting else. On option would be to build a galleon and MI in those 2 between turns and sail those over to spain where we disband them for 22 shields.
We could do the same with our wealth cities. Certainly Delhi and Bombay should build units for disbanding in the portugese towns as those will not need any transporting.
Dromons at kyoto are gonna be upgraded to bring workers southward ?
Nfalls can use its excess pop to rushbuild a library instead of starve. It can also start pop rushing a hospital then. It has space to grow to size 15. It can also use some growth when it is below 7 again. Growth that can be used to rush the hospital citizen by citizen. The other drafted units should also be disbanded into the city as soon as can be aranged to reduce upkeep cost.
killercane
Deity
Yes both Arab cities are going from 6-7 right now. Once the troops are dropped off in the south we can shipchain from Paris to Southland to improve the railing there.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Paris has to build boats in between the workers anyway. We can use those to bring the workers south and disband them there. If Paris is building 2 units for every worker and we send a boat with 2 workers every 6 turns, the other 4 units can go and be disbanded in spain.
I think we should send at least 2 galleons of workers from const to the southern island first to get things started there. The workers from Paris will be comming in slowly.
I think we should send at least 2 galleons of workers from const to the southern island first to get things started there. The workers from Paris will be comming in slowly.
Played another two turns (no save this time - it was late yesterday )
Greece is gone without losses. Disbanded two MDI there to speed up libs and reduce upkeep however.
I had to switch to 20% and 10% tax... 6 will be tough to reach, not much free money to get...
Mongols signed a trade embargo with Persia against us (like they did with Babs before)
I think we should ally both Babs and Persia against them, this is getting personal...
I'm surprised we did not have a Mongol stack heading for Thebes yet.
They killed our caravel near Trondheim, we are lucky they still send an archer at a time.
This is getting nasty...
)Greece is gone without losses. Disbanded two MDI there to speed up libs and reduce upkeep however.
I had to switch to 20% and 10% tax... 6 will be tough to reach, not much free money to get...
Mongols signed a trade embargo with Persia against us (like they did with Babs before)
I think we should ally both Babs and Persia against them, this is getting personal...
I'm surprised we did not have a Mongol stack heading for Thebes yet.
They killed our caravel near Trondheim, we are lucky they still send an archer at a time.
This is getting nasty...
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Please don't let it get personal. Just make peace with them. Trade embargos mean nothing, just give one of those guys an old tech for 10 gold and the trade embargo is gone.
You already know i don't care incredibly much about those 6 turns of 7.
PS: in the last save i have, changing the sliders shows that commerce in the slider is worth 1.73 times as much for science as it is for tax. (moving science from 100 to 0 costs 835 science and gold goes up by 482) Since a specialist makes 1.5 times as much science as gold, taxmen are better than scientists for us. Of course food is still more important and we shouldn't have specialists where they aren't needed, but if we make specialists, taxmen are better.
You already know i don't care incredibly much about those 6 turns of 7.
PS: in the last save i have, changing the sliders shows that commerce in the slider is worth 1.73 times as much for science as it is for tax. (moving science from 100 to 0 costs 835 science and gold goes up by 482) Since a specialist makes 1.5 times as much science as gold, taxmen are better than scientists for us. Of course food is still more important and we shouldn't have specialists where they aren't needed, but if we make specialists, taxmen are better.
Hmm... So what's our aims for our bored forces after Iroquois are down? Russia I guess.
That's it, nice guys for the rest of the game?
Good point. One of these little things I tend to overlook
However it's still better to use a scientist here and there than having many beakers wasted at the end of a tech, I guess...
This game concept demands quite a balance of economy, research and warfaring till the better end, quite challenging compared to the other games we are used to play, right?
WackenOpenAir
Deity
I have no UN experience. I don't know if it matters to wether there are gonna be 20 civs or 5 civs with the election.
Assuming 20 civs is no problem, i think we should attack russia next. But i am still not sure if we should take them out.
Of course in the last turn of every research, we should use scientists to minimize overrun.
Also, obviously, when we get our research to 100%, we should only use as many taxmen as we can use the gold.
I don't think this game is so much more challenging than others, if you search well, you find more to (micro) manage than you can handle in every game
It's just that this game we are searching a lot of things to manage. Hopefull that will make us kick the other teams asses
Assuming 20 civs is no problem, i think we should attack russia next. But i am still not sure if we should take them out.
Of course in the last turn of every research, we should use scientists to minimize overrun.
Also, obviously, when we get our research to 100%, we should only use as many taxmen as we can use the gold.
I don't think this game is so much more challenging than others, if you search well, you find more to (micro) manage than you can handle in every game
It's just that this game we are searching a lot of things to manage. Hopefull that will make us kick the other teams asses
UN nominees are the UN builder (we) and the biggest rival (not sure if pop, cities or territory counts though ).
All other can vote.
AI usually vote for their allies, if they are at war with the opponent. Unless they (or one of their friends) made some real bad experience with their ally or think, they should have been nominee, too
I played two more turns, Iroquois are gone, too, I'm about to attack Russia. I plan to settle with Sparta and St. Petersburg, develop Sparta and let St. Petersburg on worker duty without any improvements (flip risk).
With Mass Production we will get the opportunity to build commercial docks (80 shields, +1 commerce for all used sea tiles). While Paris (2 -> 12bpt) and Const (7 -> 14bpt) won't gain too much, Osaka and Teo might very well profit from it.
However it's kinda late (with probably just Motorized Transport and Flight to research), so no need to make plans for it, right?
OT
Wacken: Even in the morning you are starting to hount me...
In a radio broadcast they talked about a new movie to start this week called "Full Metall Village"
. Guess which village is meant...
Bet you already heard of it? Won't be surprised if this movie is also shown in the Netherlands
/OT
).All other can vote.
AI usually vote for their allies, if they are at war with the opponent. Unless they (or one of their friends) made some real bad experience with their ally or think, they should have been nominee, too
I played two more turns, Iroquois are gone, too, I'm about to attack Russia. I plan to settle with Sparta and St. Petersburg, develop Sparta and let St. Petersburg on worker duty without any improvements (flip risk).
With Mass Production we will get the opportunity to build commercial docks (80 shields, +1 commerce for all used sea tiles). While Paris (2 -> 12bpt) and Const (7 -> 14bpt) won't gain too much, Osaka and Teo might very well profit from it.
However it's kinda late (with probably just Motorized Transport and Flight to research), so no need to make plans for it, right?
OT
Wacken: Even in the morning you are starting to hount me...
In a radio broadcast they talked about a new movie to start this week called "Full Metall Village"
. Guess which village is meant...Bet you already heard of it? Won't be surprised if this movie is also shown in the Netherlands
/OT
WackenOpenAir
Deity
I'll haunt you everywhere All sounds good. No plans for commercial docks needed.
It's played.
The Galleon SE of Teno is for Orleans-Trondheim shipping.
I bet Bergen finally flips to us, when the ferry arrives...
The dromon SW of Oporto is meant for ferry duty Spain-Portugal. Korea blocks the path
The reg knights in Arabeece are meant for rushing improvements.
(They might be abused to chase Cartaghinians however
)
Russia we should make peace with, if St Petersburg flips back, no problem. 7 Units reduce flip risk however.
The tech trade did not brake the Persia's trade embargo
I think we should do two final wars in preparation of the UN election:
Against Mongols allied with Persia and Babs and against Carthage.
Mongols, Persians and Cartaghinians are the three civs with four towns each - I'm not sure who will compete against us and we should know for sure before.
Spoiler :
(sell it for 40g)
(100g gifted)The Galleon SE of Teno is for Orleans-Trondheim shipping.
I bet Bergen finally flips to us, when the ferry arrives...
The dromon SW of Oporto is meant for ferry duty Spain-Portugal. Korea blocks the path
The reg knights in Arabeece are meant for rushing improvements.
(They might be abused to chase Cartaghinians however
)Russia we should make peace with, if St Petersburg flips back, no problem. 7 Units reduce flip risk however.
The tech trade did not brake the Persia's trade embargo
I think we should do two final wars in preparation of the UN election:
Against Mongols allied with Persia and Babs and against Carthage.
Mongols, Persians and Cartaghinians are the three civs with four towns each - I'm not sure who will compete against us and we should know for sure before.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Looking good.
Some MM stuff. Medina needs to hire a government thief. The library in Sparta needs to be hurried. Ditto for the courthouse in Trondheim. What about the hospital in Mecca? Teno should not be working the hill. I suspect that the courthouse in Lisbon should be whipped. Wacken? You promised to analyze this.
Key question ATM. Do we want to continue conquest or simply to hunker down for the long haul? We should take out Carthage. For unit support, if nothing else.
Some MM stuff. Medina needs to hire a government thief. The library in Sparta needs to be hurried. Ditto for the courthouse in Trondheim. What about the hospital in Mecca? Teno should not be working the hill. I suspect that the courthouse in Lisbon should be whipped. Wacken? You promised to analyze this.
Key question ATM. Do we want to continue conquest or simply to hunker down for the long haul? We should take out Carthage. For unit support, if nothing else.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Nice work on the southern island 
I'd say sure, kill Carthage. We have a bunch of elite units around there, make sure they get their kills. Leaders are always nice for easy hospitals.
..Eh, we have 4 workers in their territory, don't get em killed.
Terrain improvements look good. Worker count looks good as well.
If all our cities are to be maxed out, we could use about 500 more citizens. So no worries that we will be left with workers that have no place to go if we grow too fast. Therefore, all our core cities should build granaries. These will help them grow to their final size 30-40. Granaries are also very good in our science farms after they have hospitals and markets.
Cities with markets can handle 25 citizens. Every unhappiness reduces that by 1. So every city can handle 5 unhappiness trough drafting or whipping.
Orleans has 1 unhappiness from drafting, it can handle 4 more for whipping and speeding up the hospital build. If you rush some next turn, the town can keep growing a bit in the 4 turns it needs to produce the rest of the required shields.
The stack of workers there should mine a few tiles to speed up production of the market place. This is more important than joining in the city and being scientists as the market is needed for growth. They should then also re-irrigate them though when the market is about done.
Paris, last time i looked, it made 388 beakers, now it makes 396 with the same citizens.
Trontheim should get irrigation and use the mountain to both build faster and grow faster. Not much more we can do there.
I'd say sure, kill Carthage. We have a bunch of elite units around there, make sure they get their kills. Leaders are always nice for easy hospitals.
..Eh, we have 4 workers in their territory, don't get em killed.
Terrain improvements look good. Worker count looks good as well.
If all our cities are to be maxed out, we could use about 500 more citizens. So no worries that we will be left with workers that have no place to go if we grow too fast. Therefore, all our core cities should build granaries. These will help them grow to their final size 30-40. Granaries are also very good in our science farms after they have hospitals and markets.
Cities with markets can handle 25 citizens. Every unhappiness reduces that by 1. So every city can handle 5 unhappiness trough drafting or whipping.
Orleans has 1 unhappiness from drafting, it can handle 4 more for whipping and speeding up the hospital build. If you rush some next turn, the town can keep growing a bit in the 4 turns it needs to produce the rest of the required shields.
The stack of workers there should mine a few tiles to speed up production of the market place. This is more important than joining in the city and being scientists as the market is needed for growth. They should then also re-irrigate them though when the market is about done.
Paris, last time i looked, it made 388 beakers, now it makes 396 with the same citizens.
Trontheim should get irrigation and use the mountain to both build faster and grow faster. Not much more we can do there.
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