SGOTM 12 - Team Zoe

I think the Mongols are logical right off the bat. We're on the continent already so whether we get there or Persia takes them it's a win.
We should also keep the Dutch busy with their Swiss Mercs. The Arabs are there too, right?

We should forment war in a few other places too while we build towards hammering Portugal.
 
IIRC the arabs are down south with china and some others. I agree portugal is the next target we need to actively pursue - and we seriously could use fresh troops there.
 
lurker's comment: No chance of just weakening Portugal (i.e. red-line the last defender then leave alone) and letting Korea take over? Or is it too close to home for comfort?
 
eldar said:
lurker's comment: No chance of just weakening Portugal (i.e. red-line the last defender then leave alone) and letting Korea take over? Or is it too close to home for comfort?
Click to expand...
I'm afraid we'd be fighting them like all war.
We have a AC, 2 MI, 1 pike and 4 trebs. It will only take 4-5 turns to get there so I'm inclined to wait for overwhelming force to arrive.
 
Portugal is fighting Spain together with Korea. I guess their main forces will be in Korean lands, so once we fight Portugal with the help of Korea, it should be a walk in the park. A few knights and maybe some other small troops should be sufficient. If we want more troops, we should get our capital to build 2 turn maces...but faster troops are better in my mind.

Arabia is together with Carthage, Iro, Russia and Greece. We could ask Babylon to fight Dutch, I am sure they have plenty of troops and would be able to take Dutch.
 
I have a couple turns to go. The Mongol cities are Persian cities. I just DOW on the Dutch. I can get Persia in (they are stacked with immortals, crusaders and knights) but it will cost 12 gpt and 3 lux. I can get Babs in but it will cost iron and a lux or two. My question is should I take the chance on this? It seems like low risk - the trade routes with Persia look real safe. With the Babs it appears as long as Persia and Arabs do not declare on us at the same time it is safe.
 
lux trade with persia seems pretty safe. What giving a tech to babs? Not possible?

I guess the war won't last that long anyway, so maybe just give them some gpt
 
If we can afford that, I would go for the gpt deal...we can get the cash back later in other ways
and once Dutch are gone, that Island is cleared already...then we can sell Persia lux for gpt or so

if you do not finish tonight, maybe can post a save ;)
 
Did a bunch of pre-flight analysis:

Landmass – inhabitants
#1 – Byz – The Zoo
#2 – Byz (former Aztec)
#3 – Byz (former Indian), Portugal, Korea, Spain
#4 – Byz (former Egypt), Persia, Mongols, Dutch, Babs
#5 – Rome
#6 – Celts
#7 – France, Viking, American
#8 – Arab, Greek, Russian, Carthage, Iro
#9 – Zulu, German
#10 – Ottoman
#11 – Sumeria, England

Dead: Aztec, Japan, India, Maya, Inca, Egypt, Hittite, China

Possible victims:
Spain, Iroquois, Mongols, Viking

We have a deal with Vikes for one more turn so no war for them yet.

Change The Zoo to caravel
MM Osaka to finish uni in 11 (not 14)
MM Rat Hole to finish uni in 4 (not 5)
Change Bears Den to pike

Sign MA with Korea vs Spain giving education and getting 23 gold
Sell polytheism to Mongols for 27 gold. They are going to need religion
DOW on Mongols
Dutch sign MA vs Mongols for banking, give us 14 gold and 3 gpt
Put up embassy in Babylon for 54 gold (making 10 spt, 3 spears and horse defending)
Babs sign MA vs Mongols for banking, give us 32 gold and 11 gpt
Dutch and Babs have ROP with Persia. Looks ugly for Mongols.
Upgrade our last dromon to caravel for 30 gold

IBT
Iro ask for peace. We decline, and the Arabs then destroy them. Arabs have 6 cities now.
Bears Den: pike ->MI
Zoo: Caravel -> knight
We get a couple border expansions

Turn 1 – 230 AD
Put embassy in America (9 spt, 3 spears defend, 1 clown)
DOW Vikings
Americans get feudalism for MA vs Vikings
Sell philo to Carthage for 16 gold.
DOW Carthage
Russia signs MA vs Carthage we give banking and get 3 gold
Greece signs MA vs Carthage we give theology and get 25 gold

IBT
Another city culture expands

Turn 2 – 250 AD
There is a Portugese spear standing on the choke on landmass #3
IBT
France and Dutch are caught up in tech

Turn 3 – 260 AD
Two caravels are on their way to Carthage full of attacking units
Collect 22 gold from Persia for ROP

IBT
Zoo: knight -> MI
Bombay: court -> market
Rat Hole: uni -> knight
The horror! I pulled a bonehead move and left our two caravels on ocean tiles and one sank – lost three attacking units. Sorry guys

Turn 4 – 270 AD
Persians sign MA vs Mongols, we give banking and get 125 gold

IBT
Bears Den: carvel -> caravel
Zoo SOZ -> AC

Turn 5 – 280 AD
Cut science to 70% - gunpowder in 1
An AC is touring Persian territory. Yikes the Persians are stacked with immortals, crusaders and knights.

IBT
Finish gunpowder start chem

Turn 6 – 290 AD
Science back to 100% - chemistry in 8
Eek France has gunpowder too so I can’t get them to MA vs the Vikings

IBT
Persia take Tatu from the Mongols.
Carthage lands two units near Memphis

Turn 7 – 300 AD
Send a knight against the numidian mercenary at Memphis – knight retreats.

IBT
Pike defends against Mongols sword at Memphis [1-0]

Turn 8 – 310 AD
Buy dyes and 5 gold from Gilgamesh again giving education
AC finishes the numidian at Memphis [2-0]
Our troops have landed at Carthage: 6 attackers and 3 trebs

IBT
Carthage attacks our caravels and we defeat a galley [3-0]

Turn 9 – 320 AD
Attack Carthage. Two trebs hit. Defeat 3 numidian mercenaries costing a MI and an AC, but netting our first great leader!
Carthage is a nice city with barracks, granary, market and harbor.

Sell banking to Arabs collect 86 gold and 7 gpt
Sell education to Greeks collect 57 gold and 5 gpt

IBT
2 Mongol swords land near Memphis, but they don’t last long as Persia takes them out of the game
Bears Den: Caravel -> knight
Zoo SOZ -> AC
Zoo: knight -> knight

Turn 10 – 330 AD
Decide Dutch have to go.
Sign alliance with Persia, give ivory, gems, spices and 10 gpt
Sign alliance with Babs, give 24 gpt

IBT
Lone swiss merc moves on road to Memphis
Kyoto: court -> MI
Osaka: uni -> caravel
Rat Hole: knight -> knight

Turn 11 – 340 AD
Trebs move alongside Utica. This is turn 149 so I elect one more for myself.
Realize the gravity of the situation. If swiss merc cuts the road we can’t deliver gems to Persia. Send 2 AC, 1 2/4 knight and a 1 pike against it but can only get it to yellow. Left open passage to slave worker hoping to distract.

IBT
Woohoo swiss merc can’t resist unprotected Thebes and moves towards it!

Turn 12 – 350AD
Defeat two numidian mercs and Utica falls. Carthage is dead.
Our leader lands not too far from Delhi
Sign a deal with America to get 40 gold and 10 gpt

Plenty of movements left for next player on some boats and some workers.


End status:

Landmass – inhabitants
#1 – Byz – The Zoo
#2 – Byz (former Aztec)
#3 – Byz (former Indian), Portugal, Korea, Spain
#4 – Byz (former Egypt), Persia, Dutch, Babs
#5 – Rome
#6 – Celts
#7 – France, Viking, American
#8 – Arab, Greek, Russian
#9 – Zulu, German
#10 – Ottoman
#11 – Sumeria, England

Dead: Aztec, Japan, India, Maya, Inca, Egypt, Hittite, China, Iro, Mongols, Carthage


http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm12/Team_Zoe_SG012_AD0350_01.SAV
 
The horror! I pulled a bonehead move and left our two caravels on ocean tiles and one sank – lost three attacking units. Sorry guys
Click to expand...
:crazyeye:

Defeat 3 numidian mercenaries costing a MI and an AC, but netting our first great leader!
Click to expand...
This is great news, add to that that Delhi will finish the uni nicely next turn and we should get a nice FP city there.


I checked the save, we can't take on Arabs for quite a while and in fact, should take on Portugal next. Shouldn't be that difficult once we have some units there.

But, what do we do after that with regards to expansion?
we could try the English with the help of Germany? Vikings are a little far away

As for techs, I would sell chemistry to France/Persia and Babylon immediately once we have it. Maybe they get us metal?
 
The Roster

Beorn --
ThERat--
Smart --
Zerksees-- took out Mongols and Carthago
Bucephalus -- up
Whomp-- on deck
Sanabas -- Give us a wavey when you can be re-inserted
 
Big gamble on turn 11, oh boy! But it's all good ;) Especially with a FP :D
Good job taking carthage on a small contingent - weakened or not, those were numidians in there.

I think we need the amendment:
Landmass – inhabitants
#1 – Byz – The Zoo
#2 – Byz (former Aztec)
#3 – Byz (former Indian), Portugal, Korea, Spain
#4 – Byz (former Egypt), Persia, Dutch, Babs
#5 – Rome
#6 – Celts
#7 – France, Viking, American
#8 – Byz (former Carthage), Arab, Greek, Russian
#9 – Zulu, German
#10 – Ottoman
#11 – Sumeria, England
Dead: Aztec, Japan, India, Maya, Inca, Egypt, Hittite, China, Iro, Mongols, Carthage

And now correct me if I'm wrong here:

X-posted Roster
Beorn -- skipped for a week-end at grandma's (gmabeorn, not harriet)
ThERat-- Solvedf tyhe ottoman situation
Smart -- Brought gems home
Zerksees-- Just went after Carthage
Bucephalus -- UP
Whomp-- On Deck
Sanabas -- Give us a wavey when you can be re-inserted
 
On techs: I'd let the AI go ahead on metallurgy and navigation, but I certainly don't trust them to go physics.

On expansion: Portugal must be dealt with sooner than later. We then could give Korea room and/or just take spain for ourselves. I'd start a Zulu-German war right away and have it cooked up so that we can OCC Germany down and take advantage of what they have got. Likewise for England vs Sumeria, there's a bunch of colorful dyes up there.

I don't think we can do much on the arab continent without delaying portuguese expansion, which is right by our FP, and should be greatly prioritized.

EDIT: just thought I'd report the goodies ... Spooks have had a good kick upwards, but at the moment everyone is both late on us in saves and under our territory progress curve. Spooks have a wee bit higher score for the time they are at but much lower culture, which can mean less early libs (and/or later or captured SoZ).
 
ok, a few pointers for the next 10 turns:

1. Techs
We will get chemistry in 2 turns. Sell it to Persia, France and Babylon for the max you can get (we need to improve our gpt). Go for physics next. We hope that one of the AI's will research metal for us.

You could always sell an old tech to those Civs far behind for some cash or a worker if there is any.
Avoid gpt payments by them as we might want to fight.

2. Wars
Portugal looks like a good target next, so maybe you could start to shift more units to former India
As BoE suggested, start a war together with Germany against Zulu and with Sumeria against England. We might profit from those wars later on.

3. Cities
Delhi will get the FP rushed next turn with the MGL there. Suggest a market there for more happiness. We are still awfully short on workers, so maybe you can peel a few off those cities that reached 12 or 6 pop already. (they will grow back to size in 1 turn if the food box is full)
 
Put a couple/few more units in former Egypt territory - you have a swiss merc there and we will have trouble if he cuts the road between the gems and the harbor in Memphis. This is small, but definitely #1 issue

Look at who has what techs. We have a deficit right now and will need more gold to keep up the research rate. Several AI's had gpt so maybe we can get more gpt trades. My advice is to plot out who might get attacked by us in the next 20 turns and not trade with them.

I recommend selling chem to the French for an MA vs. Vikings. The idea here is to get France up to four cities so she can research techs faster. Then maybe she can get the American cities too.

We should sell chem to Persia and Arabs too. I think these three are our best hopes to get a tech researched for us.

Should we gift the scientific AI's forward now?

Do we really want to take on the Arabs? They have 6 cities. I was working under the impression we should grow them so they can research techs. Bottom line is they are gaining critical mass and could research us a few techs in the industrial ages.

Is is unanimous the forbidden palace should be in Delhi? I still like Bombay since the Portugese cities will benefit.

I decided not to get Germany and Zulu in a war and also not to get England and Sumeria in a war. Seemed like no one would come out on top.

Beorn - thanks for the status update - forgot to add us after taking out Carthage.

ThERat - I thought we were short on workers too but we don't have any citizens working unimproved tiles really, so I did not build any. I think boats and military units more important atm.
 
actually I am not really 100% for the FP in Delhi, we can always build in Bombay if we are sure it gives us more benefits for the Portugese cities.

Currently we do not need any workers, but in a few techs, we need them for railing

I agree with the plan to sell chemistry to France and use it to drag them into the war. France/ Persia and Arabia (you are quite right, zerksees) can help us research, so sell it to them too.
 
Getting the French to fight will kick off their GA so I like that idea.

If a war starts with Portugal during your turnset I'd bring Spain into the fight. That way Korea can hammer the Spaniards afterwards while their units are headed home.

Bombay or Dehli? Doesn't Bombay have more hills, mountains and commerce tiles?
 
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