SGOTM 12 - Team Zoe

ok I fired up CA2

we are currently making 329 beakers/turn
...
11. Refining (6400)
Great work ThERat.
By the time we start refining I think we want 1280 beakers a turn so we can get refining in 5, and all techs in 5 or less.

We are currently at 329/turn. After FP is done that will increase no doubt. I'll do some assessment on what cities put out and how much we'll need to get there.
 
I'm inclined to leave the Sumerians alone. They're are doing their part for us by delivering dyes imo.
 
Thank you, eldar and sanabas, for your insights on researching steel vs refining. :) I'll rethink my gameplay (but, darn it, I'm always so curious to know if I have oil. :p )
 
if we can ever make 1280 beakers, I will really take my hat off...but I think that half of that is a more realistic target...

unless we actually take out almost everyone and leave each Sci Civ one mere city
 
Questions...

I think we should consider Dehli instead of Bombay for the FP. Dehli may not have the productivity shieldwise but it will finish a uni next and can do 34 uncorrupted beakers (7 corrupted) beakers without the uni (and will be #2 with a uni by a good margin over Rat Hole 40 beakers). Bombay is 8 turns from a market (could be uni) and if configured for commerce can produce 16 uncorrupted beakers (8 corrupted). Lisbon and Oporto won't be commerce machines either.

It doesn't seem to be worth the wait on the market.

One other thing....we have some rush opportunities.
Do you guys mind if I rush libs for 1 pop? It will help with expanding border and food more than anything.

I think we should discuss this so I'll finish tomorrow if no one posts in the next hour.
 
This is why I was for Delhi as the FP city in the first place. It is a great commerce (luxes + river) and shield city (mountains as well).
Delhi would be the perfect place for a ToE prebuild IMHO...
It also fits into the build queue as you said...

As for rushing 1 pop libraries, i think that is fine as we can grow back quickly and might make extra beakers sooner. We need high science in the IA
 
I think Dehli makes more sense for our mission so I think we're agreed there.
The cities I'm rushing have harbors so the libs will help them grow too.
 
Mr Whomp I was thinking the Carthage cities could build our workers since they won't be of much other value.

It is true that Delhi has more high commerce tiles, but corruption there is already low. I think it would be a waste of the FP.

Don't wait on the market at Bombay - build something else like temple or musket then FP next turn with the leader. Then pop a worker and restart the market. The temple would help with one more happy face while we put up the market.
 
Well we can finish a gran instead but I really wonder what's best here.
The FP will help Bombay if it's in Dehli too.

I'm going to stop for the night. Here's where I'm at so far.
Pre turn: Rush a lib in Tiwanku since it will cost 1 pop and the jungles would strangle growth until they're developed. Adding 3 coastals will help a lot.
Copan will benefit from a court too and will only lose 1 pop since we'll grow next. Cuzco will cost 1 pop for a court. Rush it.
Istanbul will be able to rush a lib next turn.

On the trade front
We can get 18g and 9gpt for banking from Greeks.
Ottos are in our territory next to empty cities. We can get 31g and 1gpt for banking
Babs are interested in our extra iron but the route doesn't look secure.
Zulus can't even get off their island and are totally backwards. The Germans have horses and iron so they should be way ahead with pikes and knights.
 
OK I changed my mind on the Germans - let them have at the Zulu

If you want to put the FP in Delhi its fine by me but I still like Bombay. You can do the ToE prebuild in Delhi either way.

Also, if beakers are key then we should look closely at our big cities. Almost all of them have citizens working 1 commerce land tiles when they could be working sea tiles and getting 2 commerce. There are probably 30 more beakers to be gained right now in the top 5-6 cities. Of course we will sacrifice shields but so it goes.

1 pop rush in the less valuable towns seems like a good tradeoff to me.
 
I still like Bombay too. I'm into the trifecta
-Delhi already has a good corruption
-Bombay has more production and should build useful stuff like maces and ToE
-Portugal will benefit more from it

Pop rush and worker builds in corrupt towns are all fine by me.
 
Better late than never on the pics.

Also there are a couple tiles in control of Delhi right now that could be siwtched to Bombay to increase commerce there. For some reason the AI did not do a dot map and optimally space their cities :crazyeye:
 

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OK I'll continue in Bombay. I'm going to build a rax instead of a temple since lux won't be a problem in the long run. It will dump some shields but it will need this.
 
lurker's comment: Any chance Paris might win a cultural victory?
 
Dutch, I don't think we'll get to this kind of timeframe. We'll be secretary of the world by then.
 
lurker's comment: At the moment it would take Paris 264 turns to hit 20K. That'll go down, but not enough to pose a threat.
 
Pre turn: Rush a lib in Tiwanku since it will cost 1 pop and the jungles would strangle growth until they're developed anyhow at pop 6. Adding 3 coastals will help a lot. Copan will benefit from a court too and will only lose 1 pop since we'll grow next. Cuzco will cost 1 pop. Istanbul will be able to do the same next turn. Switch Bombay to rax from market so it can grab the FP next.

Zulus can't even get off their island. Establish an embassy in Germany for 39g. They have 20 units in the capital. We need those guys to work. There's no way the Zulu can take pikes with impis. Declare on the Zulus and give gunpowder to the Germans for 9g and a MA.
Deals we have
  • We can cancel Ports vs. Spain anytime.
  • Korea MA vs. Spain for 8 more turns. I think we'll flip the tables when it's time.
  • Arabia we get 17gpt for 7 more
  • Sumeria for dyes 16 more.
  • America MA vs. Scans for 9 more and receive 10gpt for 20.
  • Babs MA vs. Dutch giving we're giving 24gpt 18 turns. Babs are interested in our extra iron but the route doesn't look secure. We'll wait.
  • Persia ROP for 11 and Dutch for 18 along with 10gpt, ivory, spices and gems.
  • Greece we get 5gpt for 17 turns.
  • We can get 18g and 9gpt for banking from Greeks. Done.
  • Ottos are in our territory next to empty cities. We can get 31g and 1gpt for banking. Done.

Hit enter.
IT French start Bachs. Great. The French research MT. :lol:
The invading Swiss Merc moves to a road.
360 AD Check the combat calculator and we're 76% win with a AC. Flawless. A dutch galley appears near Cartho. Rush the FP in Bombay. Turn down science to 60% at +11gpt. Trade banking for a worker and 1g to Korea. Rush a lib in Istanbul for 1 pop. Barcelona is taken by the Ports. Well dang.

IT Dutch drop a knight at Carthage. Chem in and start physics.
370 ADBabs will give 43gpt and 94g for chem. Done.
French give MA vs. Vikes, 6gpt and 56g for chem. They want money for MT.
Russia give 9gpt, 39g for gunpowder.
Greeks give 3gpt, 7g for gunpowder.

No deals yet for Persians or Arabs till they can pony up.
We can now get physics in 7 at -18gpt with 561g in the bank. Nice.

Whack the knight. (2-0) It seems the FP in Bombay could've been the right place since Dehli is cranking regardless. I think we'll be ready for the Ports in 2.

IT Nada
380 Move more units towards Ports. They've got to be at the Spanish capital right now.

IT
390 We'll give it one more turn since there will be some buchets appearing next turn. Finally trade chem to the Persians since we can't wait any longer for 45g. Also gift it to Russians, Greeks, Arabs and Germans just in case.

IT Ports destroy the Spaniards.
400 AD French have taken Bergen. Sell the Ports mono for 48g and declare on them. Leader farm with against a horse redline the AC but win. Hammer a spear at the choke and our AC is flawless. Move our stack to Lisbon. Shoot we lose 3 knights hitting Lisbon. We were supposed to have 23% of loss. Nope all three.
Our two AC's do the job and take a spear and sword. (4-3) It leave the three injured spears. We have 2 more ACs and MIs next turn. Decide to bring the Ottos into the game since I don't want them to create problems with their units on our territory. They MA with 1gpt and 12g for gunpowder.

IT
410 AD Wait a turn for our stack to arrive. Oporto is on a hill and we'll need some help there.

IT
420 This time we get 3 ACs to retreat and one loss. 3 MIs take 3 spears with a promo and another knight finishes off and Lisbon is ours. (8-4). Trap a spear so it must move into our territory and in our buchet sights.
Great news the Persians have taken Rotterdam. This seems to open all trade routes if they keep it.

IT The rampaging French have destroyed the Vikings. :D
Lose our pike to a archer. (8-5). Well it will give us two farm opportunities now.
430 Bombard the spear to 3 hps and our MI is flawless. Our second elite hits the archer and we get a MGL! (10-5)
mglti8.jpg

Load two knights into the army. The timing is perfect since physics finishes next and we'll be able to start a prebuild. Move towards Oporto. Rush a lib in Memphis for 1 pop.

IT
440 AD Ports get feud and have a pike now. Dang. I'm going to bring the trebs in before attacking. I'm not sure if loading a 3rd knight is necessary yet so I manuever them together.
It seems the French are researching upper half.
We can trade physics and contacts with Zulus and Greeks to the French for Print Press, 210g and 87gpt. This will allow us to run a positive 59gpt at 100% but we really don't need the gold and I'd rather have them researching something. Instead I trade physics and contacts for 210g, 6gpt, music theory and printing press. We're still running 800+g and -22gpt with ToG due in 7.

Summary
I'll stop here because it seems to be a good point for a break. There's lots of deals to be had with trading contacts. These guys literally don't know each other. I think the scientifics all need to meet and we can pick up both luxs for our contacts but I want to make sure that's safe. I recall delivering luxs is risky but receiving you don't but I want to make sure it wouldn't wreck our rep before I did the deal. There's other trades available for physics but I left that too. We should get the heroic epic message and The Zoo could start in next turn.
Here's the trade picture.
mapstattv2.jpg


btw the French are at 7164 culture and 164cpt.

The Save
 
lurker's comment: Why not grab PP off the French so you can see just who knows who? Or is it fairly clear anyway?
 
I did. The reason I stopped is to see how we want to trade contacts and whether we want to pick up the luxs from the Arabs and America.
 
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