Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Should I see what civassist says?
SGOTM 12 - Team Zoe
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Should I see what civassist says?
zerksees
in remission
Whomp – Spain is at war with us, Portugal and Korea atm. We have MA with Korea vs Spain. I think the French might be in their GA already, or by some miracle they can make 39 spt – maybe wonder initiated?
Forbidden palace: I am thinking Bombay will help our Portugal cities be better, I was noth thinking just about the FP city itself. But also what about Cuzco - could help the near worthless Istanbul? We need a consensus. I vote Bombay – has more grassland and will support bigger pop, plus will help Portugal cities. Please vote today.
I’d like to add a victim list to the status sheet:
Victims of ours: Portugal, Spain, Rome, Celts
Victims of France: Viking, American
Victims of Persia: Dutch
Other possibles:
Victims of Arabs: 1 Russian city, 1 Greek city
Victim of German: Zulu
Victim of Sumeria: England
I am not sure there will be time for much more.
We are at turn 150 - how many turns are left in this game? 100? We need to think about this because we should probably time our conquest phase to end with 50 turns or more to go. What value can we get from a few more distant cities in 20-30 turns? If we can get Persia, Arabs and France to start making some techs, plus our age change free techs it is conceivable this could be over in 100 turns. We could switch our productive capacity to build units to disband in the faraway cities to quickly turn them into science factories.
If we do it right everyone should have about two more turnsets each.
Forbidden palace: I am thinking Bombay will help our Portugal cities be better, I was noth thinking just about the FP city itself. But also what about Cuzco - could help the near worthless Istanbul? We need a consensus. I vote Bombay – has more grassland and will support bigger pop, plus will help Portugal cities. Please vote today.
I’d like to add a victim list to the status sheet:
Victims of ours: Portugal, Spain, Rome, Celts
Victims of France: Viking, American
Victims of Persia: Dutch
Other possibles:
Victims of Arabs: 1 Russian city, 1 Greek city
Victim of German: Zulu
Victim of Sumeria: England
I am not sure there will be time for much more.
We are at turn 150 - how many turns are left in this game? 100? We need to think about this because we should probably time our conquest phase to end with 50 turns or more to go. What value can we get from a few more distant cities in 20-30 turns? If we can get Persia, Arabs and France to start making some techs, plus our age change free techs it is conceivable this could be over in 100 turns. We could switch our productive capacity to build units to disband in the faraway cities to quickly turn them into science factories.
If we do it right everyone should have about two more turnsets each.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
I've ran it through Civassist, and it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the overall economy whichever city gets the FP, therefore my vote goes to Delhi for it's greater economic potential.
BTW, Zerksees; I think this is the first time I've opened a save after you, and not been confronted with wrecked cities everywhere!
BTW, Zerksees; I think this is the first time I've opened a save after you, and not been confronted with wrecked cities everywhere!
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
It doesn't make a difference globally, until we gain portugal, I would be inclined to believe. So that makes me a fan of Bombay, for the added potential.
ThERat
Deity
my input might be too late, but it seems Bombay is the better place for the FP.
as for a war involving France, it will defenitely help them gain more unit support and burn units as well. This is really important.
as for the 100 turns, seems a little optimistic to me. Let's see:
We still need to research at least:
physics -> ToG -> magnetism -> metal -> electricity -> sci methods -> Rep parts -> indust -> corporation -> steel -> refining -> combustion -> mass production -> flight (did I miss a tech?).
Even if the AI can get metal/indust/rep parts/flight for us, it's still around 10 techs to go. Can we get the IA techs well below 10 turns? Well, maybe after all, might be possible...
As for the 2 tier slingshot, we actually have only a 2 in 7 chance to get industr or electricity. the other techs are all optional techs...but still worth a try...and I tested that, we do need to self research the last tech ourselves. This means that we need to acquire metal before we finish magnetism ourselves.
As for techs I hope we know that we go for ToG after physics and start a Newton prebuild in the capital on time.
as for a war involving France, it will defenitely help them gain more unit support and burn units as well. This is really important.
as for the 100 turns, seems a little optimistic to me. Let's see:
We still need to research at least:
physics -> ToG -> magnetism -> metal -> electricity -> sci methods -> Rep parts -> indust -> corporation -> steel -> refining -> combustion -> mass production -> flight (did I miss a tech?).
Even if the AI can get metal/indust/rep parts/flight for us, it's still around 10 techs to go. Can we get the IA techs well below 10 turns? Well, maybe after all, might be possible...
As for the 2 tier slingshot, we actually have only a 2 in 7 chance to get industr or electricity. the other techs are all optional techs...but still worth a try...and I tested that, we do need to self research the last tech ourselves. This means that we need to acquire metal before we finish magnetism ourselves.
As for techs I hope we know that we go for ToG after physics and start a Newton prebuild in the capital on time.
zerksees
in remission
Your model assumes we get atomic theory and electronics for ToE. Did you miss motorized transportation? OK maybe 110 turns. Even if it goes 130, how much to plan for the future must be taken into consideration.
As we get closer to IA, our cities grow and so does our infra. Seems like we can do a tech in 7-8 turns. With a little luck we can keep up the trades and keep up the 100% science pace. No doubt as more libs and unis come on line we'll have more capacity.
As we get closer to IA, our cities grow and so does our infra. Seems like we can do a tech in 7-8 turns. With a little luck we can keep up the trades and keep up the 100% science pace. No doubt as more libs and unis come on line we'll have more capacity.
ThERat
Deity
zerksees, I agree you brought up a very valid point. 
How long should we spend time on expansion that brings us little returns in the remaining 100-130 turns. Maybe we should really go over the numbers in detail.
Maybe, once we reach the IA, we should take stock of our cities and check how much science they can make at 100% and then compare with the tech cost.
It might really be better to stop expansion and rush production of courts/libraries/unis with units.
Since we will not touch the Persian/French/Arab Islands in order to keep those AIs big for added techs/trade, we only look at the German/Sumer Islands. And maybe Rome and Celts. That is truly limited anyway and won't add that many cities for us. So, we might stop expanding and doing everything for infra to speed up research.
In this scenario, police buildings might help reduce corruption even further (in case a AI researches that or in case we're unlucky to get that as a 2 tier freebie)
How long should we spend time on expansion that brings us little returns in the remaining 100-130 turns. Maybe we should really go over the numbers in detail.
Maybe, once we reach the IA, we should take stock of our cities and check how much science they can make at 100% and then compare with the tech cost.
It might really be better to stop expansion and rush production of courts/libraries/unis with units.
Since we will not touch the Persian/French/Arab Islands in order to keep those AIs big for added techs/trade, we only look at the German/Sumer Islands. And maybe Rome and Celts. That is truly limited anyway and won't add that many cities for us. So, we might stop expanding and doing everything for infra to speed up research.
In this scenario, police buildings might help reduce corruption even further (in case a AI researches that or in case we're unlucky to get that as a 2 tier freebie)
ThERat
Deity
Maybe someone could fire up CA2 and add science beakers to the techs we need:
This is what I suggest in order of research
1. chemistry (done in 2) sell to France/Persia/Arabia
2. physics (7-8 turns)
3. ToG (7-8 turns) with a prebuild for Newton
4. Magnetism (7-8 turns)
5. Metal (hopefully researched by AI before we finish magnetism)
6. We enter IA with magnetism, gift all needed techs to the Sci Civs and with the help of optional techs acquire nationalism/steam/medicine
7. Electricity (>10 turns?)
8. Sci methods (time a prebuild in the FP city early enough to net ToE and AT/electronics)
9. Industrialization (maybe helped out by the AI)
10. Corporation
11. Steel
12. Refining
13. Combustion
14. Mass production
15. Motorized Transportation
16. Rep Parts (hopefully done by AI)
17. Flight (hopefully done by AI)
Then gift every Sci Civ into the MA and hope we get fission and the UN with a prebuild. Start a war against the strongest opposition and win the UN.
This is what I suggest in order of research
1. chemistry (done in 2) sell to France/Persia/Arabia
2. physics (7-8 turns)
3. ToG (7-8 turns) with a prebuild for Newton
4. Magnetism (7-8 turns)
5. Metal (hopefully researched by AI before we finish magnetism)
6. We enter IA with magnetism, gift all needed techs to the Sci Civs and with the help of optional techs acquire nationalism/steam/medicine
7. Electricity (>10 turns?)
8. Sci methods (time a prebuild in the FP city early enough to net ToE and AT/electronics)
9. Industrialization (maybe helped out by the AI)
10. Corporation
11. Steel
12. Refining
13. Combustion
14. Mass production
15. Motorized Transportation
16. Rep Parts (hopefully done by AI)
17. Flight (hopefully done by AI)
Then gift every Sci Civ into the MA and hope we get fission and the UN with a prebuild. Start a war against the strongest opposition and win the UN.
zerksees
in remission
I don't have civ assist. Maybe I should download it.
On the tech side I would like to acquire sanitation so we can pop a few hospitals to crank up the research, but I think that would be a buy from an AI.
This just makes it all the more important to grow the Arabs, France and Persia to increase our odds of getting those techs researched for us.
On the tech side I would like to acquire sanitation so we can pop a few hospitals to crank up the research, but I think that would be a buy from an AI.
This just makes it all the more important to grow the Arabs, France and Persia to increase our odds of getting those techs researched for us.
Not a fan of detouring to sanitation, better to wait for the AI to get it for us. Growing beyond 12 gives some boost, but not enough to make up for the turns spent on researching it.
I agree we're probably getting close to ending expansion, ending proper wars, and concentrating solely on research. Assuming there's fresh water available in other places, it will be time to set up science farms too. It will certainly be time for science farms after electricity.
I agree we're probably getting close to ending expansion, ending proper wars, and concentrating solely on research. Assuming there's fresh water available in other places, it will be time to set up science farms too. It will certainly be time for science farms after electricity.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
If we go for more wars after portugal, we should check out for fresh water and grasslands/flood plains. Those will make the best farms and that's what we'll need from that point. IIRC Spain was full of grass, and just behind where our armiess will sit after we take Lisbon ...
ThERat
Deity
Spain sounds good as a science farm target. if we get another MGL, I suggest to form an army and fight to be able to have the HE prebuild for our capital.
Without it, we should set The Zoo on a cathedral 7 turns before we get ToG as this is the max build time for it there without wasting anything.
Without it, we should set The Zoo on a cathedral 7 turns before we get ToG as this is the max build time for it there without wasting anything.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
Question... In every personal game I play, when I get to the choice between Steel and Refining, I pick Refining first for no better reason than wanting to know if I have any oil. The only reason I can think of to choose Steel first might be that it's a little less expensive. Is there any real reason to research Steel before Refining, or is it just a matter of personal preference? I've never seen a discussion of this in the forums.
eldar
ChiefTank
lurker's comment: Precisely because Steel is cheaper than Refining. In the time you've researched Steel, you could've secured enough Scientist farms or grown enough or built extra Unis to knock a turn off Refining. I always go Steel->Refining as well.
ThERat
Deity
after hearing some sad news 
, Buce is on indefinite skip and whomp is up
, Buce is on indefinite skip and whomp is up
If Steel is down to 4 turns, I do it first. If both are down to 4 turns, I usually go refining first. Other than that, I think I usually go steel, on the grounds that the AI is more likely to choose refining, because it actually gives them something.
ThERat
Deity
ok I fired up CA2
we are currently making 329 beakers/turn
1. chemistry (left 521 beakers) sell to France/Persia/Arabia
2. physics (2560)
3. ToG (2720) with a prebuild for Newton on time
4. Magnetism (2720)
5. Metal (2560)
We enter IA with magnetism, gift all needed techs to the Sci Civs and with the help of optional techs acquire nationalism/steam/medicine
6. Electricity (5600)
7. Sci methods (4000) - time a prebuild in the FP city early enough to net ToE and AT/electronics
8. Industrialization (4800) - maybe helped out by the AI
9. Corporation (4000)
10. Steel (5600)
11. Refining (6400)
12. Combustion (6400)
13. Rep Parts (5600) - hopefully done by AI
14. Mass production (5600)
15. Motorized Transportation (5600)
16. Flight (7200) - hopefully done by AI
we are currently making 329 beakers/turn
1. chemistry (left 521 beakers) sell to France/Persia/Arabia
2. physics (2560)
3. ToG (2720) with a prebuild for Newton on time
4. Magnetism (2720)
5. Metal (2560)
We enter IA with magnetism, gift all needed techs to the Sci Civs and with the help of optional techs acquire nationalism/steam/medicine
6. Electricity (5600)
7. Sci methods (4000) - time a prebuild in the FP city early enough to net ToE and AT/electronics
8. Industrialization (4800) - maybe helped out by the AI
9. Corporation (4000)
10. Steel (5600)
11. Refining (6400)
12. Combustion (6400)
13. Rep Parts (5600) - hopefully done by AI
14. Mass production (5600)
15. Motorized Transportation (5600)
16. Flight (7200) - hopefully done by AI
Thanks Phaedo for the heads up on Buce.
OK I've got it and will play some tonight and maybe tomorrow depending on how deliberate I play tonight.
Let me summarize the turnset.
Research:
Sell obsolete techs for gpt
Chemistry (left 521 beakers)
Sell to France/Persia/Arabia/Babs. Drag France into Viking war.
Start physics (2560) and possibly Newt's prebuild (400s) towards the end.
Probably won't get to ToG (2720)
Hope the AI get metal and nav for trades.
Wars
We’re at war with Spain, Mongols, Vikings and Dutch.
Protect the road for our gems because of Persian deal
Start a war with Germany vs. Zulu and Sumeria vs. England.
Builds
FP in Bombay
Units, libs, Unis and markets (if needed). Workers where needed and buy slaves.
Likely for the next player.
Prepare for war against Ports after Spain.
Other deals
Gil is giving dyes
Build Arabs, French and Persians
OK I've got it and will play some tonight and maybe tomorrow depending on how deliberate I play tonight.
Let me summarize the turnset.
Research:
Sell obsolete techs for gpt
Chemistry (left 521 beakers)
Sell to France/Persia/Arabia/Babs. Drag France into Viking war.
Start physics (2560) and possibly Newt's prebuild (400s) towards the end.
Probably won't get to ToG (2720)
Hope the AI get metal and nav for trades.
Wars
We’re at war with Spain, Mongols, Vikings and Dutch.
Protect the road for our gems because of Persian deal
Start a war with Germany vs. Zulu and Sumeria vs. England.
Builds
FP in Bombay
Units, libs, Unis and markets (if needed). Workers where needed and buy slaves.
Likely for the next player.
Prepare for war against Ports after Spain.
Other deals
Gil is giving dyes
Build Arabs, French and Persians
zerksees
in remission
Mr Whomp I see no reason not to DOW on Portugal as soon as you have the unit counts up. Double check but I do not think we have any deals with them at the moment. We have been allied with them against Spain but that deal should be over by now.
I am on the fence about the German/Zulu and England/Sumeria wars as I do not see any benefit to us - other than the longshot that the scientific AI winds and can give us a tech in the next age. I hope Sumeria can keep delivering our dyes in the war. I don't feel strongly about these either way.
Otherwise looks good.
I am on the fence about the German/Zulu and England/Sumeria wars as I do not see any benefit to us - other than the longshot that the scientific AI winds and can give us a tech in the next age. I hope Sumeria can keep delivering our dyes in the war. I don't feel strongly about these either way.
Otherwise looks good.
