SGOTM 12 - Team Zoe

[zerksees]

Do we think Korea/Sumer/Babylon/Germany/Ottoman + ourselves are enough to net fission via slingshot? Or do we need to make sure Persia/Greece and Russia stay alive too?

I think chances are low that we'll need all of them. I wouldn't mind knocking off a couple of them but earlier dialogue seems to indicate that you and I are in the minority. If we are going to whack a sci civ I still say Korea first, due to ease of access. Sumer could be the next sci victim after England goes.

As long as Persia can be of value providing a tech, why would we attack them? How many turns will it take to kill them - 12-15?

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

As long as Persia can be of value providing a tech, why would we attack them? How many turns will it take to kill them - 12-15?

For the same reason we would attack Korea: extra land. Korea is little and Puny while Persia is big and mighty, but difficulty aside, it serves the same purpose.

Expatriating Korea and Persia into Carthage together would be a nice final objective, but for every SCI we completely erase, we add an even greater % chance of failure in getting Fission in the end. Right now it is just above 5%, take out Korea and it almost reaches 10%, goes over 15 without Persia: from a 1/20 chance, we go to 1/6 with only 2 civs out.

I just had a good look at the save and I think that our best bet in maximizing our city count without harming our number of SCI's too much would be to take Korea, gift Carthage to Germany and Sumer, capture both their islands and dig into Arabia for the rest of the game. Logistically, it makes the most sense. Arabia also has many towns, like Persia, but much harsher land. We probably will not face a lot of good attackers, just (!) rifles. Should we have spare time remaining, we could go grab America next.

So I am ready to support erasing one SCI; taking Persia would be the most advantageous but given the timeframe we're better off grabbing the other guys' lands.

 

[ThERat]

now, that looks like a good plan to me...with repatriation of Sumer/Germans...and as BeF pointed out, more cities = more unit support/science/larger prebuild which all will benefit us. If we can really get a 1000shield prebuild, we're as fast as it can get.

 

[Whomp]

Pre turn: We're not going to be able to fight the English any faster than the Celts and the Brits land is junk without workers so we'll wait for the 6 turns on the Celts.

IT France and America make peace. French start Univ. Suffrage.
860 AD Head towards England. Establish embassies in Sumer and London to see what's up.

The Persians are trading iron and horses so I draw them into the war versus England. Then bring in Sumer.
IT
870 Trade Metal for 2 workers and 12g to Korea in hopes someone will research MT.
IT
880
IT France redeclares on America
890
IT
900 Pick up a worker from Persia.
IT Korea MA's with France against America.
910 Land at York.
IT ToE comes in and we pick up Atomic Theory and Electronics.

920 York is taken after hitting it with our army 10/13, promote a AC, retreat another and our elite AC finishes that spear. Whack the open spear leader fishing but no dice.

Sell France sci method for 26gpt and 31g. Arabs for 9gpt and 40g.
IT Babs and Americans make peace.
930 Take two spears in front of London. Land a pile of knights in front of the city.
IT
940 London falls with only one Knight loss and another elite win.
IT Babs declare on Americans again.
950 Move out units towards the north for either Korea or Celts.
Summary
I think we can consider taking the Ottos while we take out either Korea or Celts. If we're going after the Celts we should get someone else involved..

The Save

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Good work there, ToE on time and we are moving forward. ETA on Fission 45-50 turns now?

Now about Korea, if we are still going to whack anyone out from existance, it's gotta be them. Do you guys think we can handle killing them with a fresh taskforce from the Indian/Portuguese lands? That would be best imho.

Then the other landmasses can keep funnelling troops into the current warzone as it moves around its counter-clockwise wheel.

Taking Ottos is hardly worth it imho, Korea is twice as much worth it. Taking the celts would be nice but is logistically self-defeating.

Edit: picture, with a dream-case scenario where our light blue B-taskforce crosses over to Celtic lands. Yellow are main reinforcements, through to the frontline going south then east, and green the actual moves.

 

[eldar]

lurker's comment: Someone's having fun with a painting program As for your UN opponent - how certain are you that it'll be Arabia? The UN opponent is the Civ with the highest population (add up city size). Persia looks pretty vast right now.. and if as you say they have better land than Arabia, perhaps they'll grow quicker.

 

[ThERat]

general comments: I would swap the Carthage cities to workers. And I would gift the 2 cities away to Germany and Sumer now, then bring back our units to take out Sumer into exile according to BeF's plan. I also think we can easily get the troops to take care of Korea from our own land . Use the current army to take care Sumer/Germany and Zulu.
Let Lion trainer/Guided tour go for unis
York should whip something (court or lib) instead of having clowns



update on our tech plan

We entered IA with magnetism, gift all needed techs to the Sci Civs and with the help of optional techs acquire nationalism/steam/medicine. Got fascism for that
1. Electricity - 11 turns
2. Sci methods - 7 turns
3. Industrialization 5 turns, then France got it for us
4. Corporation 7 turns

Prebuild was timed to get ToE and AT/electronics at the same IT as getting corporation

5. Steel (5600) ~ 6/9 turns left
6. Refining (6400) ~ 10 turns
7. Combustion (6400) ~ 9-10 turns
8. Rep Parts (5600) - hopefully done by AI
9. Mass production (5600) ~ 8-9 turns
10. Motorized Transportation (5600) ~ 8-9 turns
11. Flight (7200) - 10-11 turns (maybe done by AI)

That's a total estimate of 54 turns left assuming that we only get rep parts from the AI.

We are currently able to make around 645 beakers a turn
for 5600 beaker techs in 8 we need > 700 beakers/turn
for combustion/refining in 9 we would need > 710 beakers/turn
for flight in 10 we need > 720 beakers

The UN is 1000 shields, we need to start a prebuild in our FP city the correct time. Bombay should be able to make ~ 50spt with a factory/power plant,
Currently with 24 cities, the prebuild is 700 shields . We do need more cities for sure (Korea/Sumer/Germany/Zulu would net 6 more cities

We would need to start the prebuild maybe 20 turns before flight is done. Bombay will complete the factory in 7 and a coal plant in another 5 turns

 

[ThERat]

one more thing, I don't like the Persian presence in England, either we get them to fight Sumer alongside or get them to fight against Germany/Zulu later


and BeF, you're up

 

[Whomp]

Yep whip something in York. The ships can be back to England while the other units are healing. I would have the Persians start first anyhow since Sumer has muskets and the Persians will lose the majority of their units. The units in York are elite so I would try to get them involved. It would be nice to rush some buildings.

At the minimum I would give the Ottos the boot order but it won't clear that one unit from the choke. Very annoying. Their remaining city will never be taken because they have units on every tile.

Who should we gift techs to? We need to get them on the RP path.

 

[zerksees]

Looks great Whomp. Another one bites the dust.

If we are giving away Carthage cities, pop out workers and whip them down to size 1 making more workers or something.

Any Otto war would be unit cleanup only, and if we have some elites there maybe we'll get a leader we can rush an improvement at FP.

to take Korea, gift Carthage to Germany and Sumer, capture both their islands and dig into Arabia for the rest of the game. Logistically, it makes the most sense. Arabia also has many towns, like Persia, but much harsher land. We probably will not face a lot of good attackers, just (!) rifles. Should we have spare time remaining, we could go grab America next.

So I am ready to support erasing one SCI

Generally I like this plan. My only issue is that I think we have to let Arabs be until we don't need them to research a tech.

Please check to make sure there are no per-turn deals in the way like there was for the Celts. I made peace with the Zulu so we may have to DOW them at the end of the 20 turns so it does not get in the way.

Landmass – inhabitants
#1 – Byz – The Zoo; #2 – Byz (former Aztec); #5 – Byz (former Rome)
#3 – Byz (former Indian), Korea
#4 – Byz (former Egypt), Persia, Babs
#6 – Celts
#7 – France, American
#8 – Byz (former Carthage), Arab, Greek, Russian
#9 – Zulu, German
#10 – Ottoman
#11 – Byz (former England) Sumeria
Dead: Aztec, Japan, India, Maya, Inca, Egypt, Hittite, China, Iro, Mongols, Carthage, Vikings, Spain, Dutch, Portugal, Rome, England

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

GT, LT -> university
Carthage to workers, the SE one gifted to Sumeria
Most troops will converge on Sumeria by turn 3, attack on turn 4.
No one is suitable for gifting electricity besides the ones who already have it, so I cross my fingers that they get it ASAP.

I see no reason to give aboot order to the ottos. It would serve no practical purpose and would stain our relations.

Will sign Persia against both Sumer and Zulu.

I'm on the end of turn one, anything else?

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

@Eldar: I place my bet on France for UN opponent because of thir giga wool towns. Persia has more land so they should be a fierce enough competitor. Arabia will not be our competitor after we're done with them.

 

[Whomp]

I think you're good to go Beorn.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Pre-Turn:
Load the 330BC save. Try again.
A whole lot of unit movements and MM tinkering to familiarize myself and prepare for the coming invasions
More cannons ordered
Rabid Corvette gifted to Sumeria.

Xerxes and France both have Electricity, I cross my fingers that they research RP. I don't want the Arabs to get their hands on it and I doubt anyone else could research fast enough.

IT
Babs want an embargo vs america, we give them 1g for their world map instead.

T1.
Carthage: worker in 1, will whip another on the next turn and the further one after.
York whines, sci-starve it.

T2.
York Whips Worker, sci starved.

T3.
Whip a worker off Carthage
Resist the urge to bully the gold away from Sumeria before declaring, move in, sign Persia for Sci Method.
2 elite victories, no leaders.
Open up the babe cleavage at York, I'd rather see knights in the jungle than in our way.

IT
Sumer send no less than 8 muskets off from Sumer towards York.

T4.
2 loss (AC, knight), 3 retreats taking Sumer against 5 muskets and a knight.

IT
11 Sumer muskets bar our way to Ur, open up London for bait.
In the jungle, Persia and Sumer both take heavy losses on each other

T5.
Healing, the roast is slightly overcooked. My brother is gone to eat at Subway's - he's that difficult.

IT
Celt/France MPP

T6.
Lose an AC re-opening the passage to Ur, elite retreat
Steel in, research set on Refining.

T7.
Move onto Ur

T8.
Boot Ottomans, we are nearly ready for an invasion on Korea.
Ur falls, 2 AC/Knight losses
Arabs and French know Mil Trad. I almost traded but figured we should think it through before dealing with the arabs.

Here's a good place to stop. Trade options available, a worker due in Carthage, Sumer is out of the way - minus a dozen stray muskets.

Economically, we are at a point where we can upgrade a lot of units to cavalries but we might not necessarily want to / be able to. Unit costs are also kicking in so we need to take Korea as soon as reasonable, so we can disband a few blokes here and there on the Alpha and Gamma continents.

I left several units awake for the next player to get a feel of what's where; there is no actual garrison in York since the last time Sumers had knights. One is on its way from the North.

Save

 

[Whomp]

Good show B.

If we're taking out the Arabs I'd think we should pick up MT. I don't think we can upgrade AC's so they should be our fodder on the attack of Korea.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Taking mil trad was not in question, but the gpt deal possible with arabia had me hesitating.

We are 23 units over by the way, so we need to take some casualties

We might want to consider disbanding AC's that are lost on useless islands. With cavalries, I'd rather pay for the upgrades and get a break from unit costs. Leo's is in Paris ... like everything else.

Oh and I set up a ferry for units from Home/Japan to Mayan soil, then onto transports on the west coast of former Istanbul. We save a lot of hassle this way and then there's always floating troops on that continent, which is good.

Last edit: the builds queued on Sumeria / England are botched, please do change them.

 

[ThERat]

looks good...refining seems to take 10 turns, hope we can get combustion down to 9...

will prepare for the Invasion of Germany and Zulu land. We should try and get Mil Trad, maybe trade AT to France for that (or steel). We need more money as the deficit is quite substantial at the moment.

got it

 

[zerksees]

Looks good Beorn. I suppose we have to kill off those Sumerian muskets since we are letting them live.
Exactly how many more cities do we need to get to the 1000 shield palace? Pretty soon we should have a count and name all the cities we are going to take to fill the slots.

Let us hope the Arabs don't get a wild hair and DOW Sumer.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

The arabs will have enough on their hands with us around

Target is 38 but I don't think we can achieve that; that's 3.8 cities per 100, so at 32 and 35 (maybe 31-34, or even 30-34) we'll get the next 100's.

With Zulu+Korea captured, Germany deported, we are at 30. Arabia brings us to 36, which is 100% sure to grant us 900 shields. We would need to dig into yet another opponent to grab 38 from that point, but it will be much easier to go through Arabia ASAP and then capture a city off the puny SCI's on that continent. I don't think hitting Persia is an option in this timeframe, unless we prepare huge drops for their smaller cities in the north, which ar eprobably less defended.

FWIW, top population rival is Persia right now but France has just captured New York. Washigton doesn't get my wagers.

 

[ThERat]

Pre-Turn
look around to familiarize myself.
We want to attack Germans next and need to gift them Carthage before doing so, thus need to get rid of the units
Likewise, Sumer's city must not go and Persia has a convoy near, plan to block that city with my units until here is peace

France actually has espionage, such a useless thing...can they research something better now
give them corporation + 2 luxes for espionage/Mil Trad
sell Greece sci methods for 18gpt and 25 gold
America down to 1 city, sell music theory for 19 gold
sell Russia sci methods for 5gpt and some cash

our unit cost is a staggering 69gpt

MM a lot, set capital to Mil Academy to get us armies if we need them
Sumer whips a lib Ur sells the bank

MM a lot emphasizing commerce over production and we make 700 beakers already
defeat hat musket on our dyes next to Sumer and upgrade some knights

park 2 units next to Rabid corvette, prepare to attack Korea next turn

IT we get the message that France just destroyed America

1.1040AD
sell a few minor things
burn some units taking out some Sumer pests, unfortunately Persia still landed 4 units next to the last Sumer city
prepare for invasion of Germany
declare on Korea, defeat the choke control and move in

IT not good at all, Persia not only takes out Sumer, but razes that town

2.1050AD
sell France AT for 64gpt and their 2 luxes
move units towards Seoul, will land in Germany next turn

IT Korea actually lands 3 units next to York

3. 1060AD
sell all nice improvements and gift Carthage to Germans
declare and land units next to their cities

take Seoul losing 1 ACav

IT both rifles and MDI get redlined, but York holds against Korea, close shave here

4.1070AD
Foot print finished it's coal plant and can max of 52 spt

attack and take both Germans cities, didn't even use the army

Zulu will be next, units support down a lot
defeat the last German unit around and get a MGL

this will be a Cav army that will help us a lot to take out Arabia

with 29 cities we have now, the prebuild is 800shield

5. 1080AD
sell Greece indus for their furs 18gpt and some cash, they go back to polite

declare war on Zulu's and move in
setup attack on Korea, so we can take them out next turn

IT this can be bad as Persia and Arabs sign MPP
Zuluz come out with many units
we get the Mil Academy

6.1090AD
make 25gold from barb camp, we take what we can
take out 3 units and Zimbabwe falls, no good

take out 2 units and Pyongyang no more, Korea is out

IT it's a sort of miracle, but we hold Zimbabwe as only 3 units attack

7 1100AD
make peace with Germany

situation in Zulu land is tricky, move out the wounded 2Cav army and
move in healthy knight army
defeat 2 units a bit north...

reduce science to 50%

IT Zulu's fight like idiots, attack and lose 4 units and the rest does some dancing
we still keep the city
we lose a galleon to 2 pirates

get refining

8.1110AD
shift units, rush rax in Zimbabwe, might be too late though
MM and combustion is down to 9 turns

IT as expected lose Zimbabwe and the knight army

9.1120AD
regroup to take them out again

10.1130AD
this time will set up attack to take out both cities in 1 turn
Russian come closer with a convoy, smell something fishy there

IT true enough, they land 8 units next to happy puppy
we get another army out of our capital

11.1140AD
ask Russia to leave and they declare war
move in 5 defenders
move on to Zulus

IT Russia suicides 5 units and pillages a tile

12.1150AD
take out remaining 3 Russian units
set up final attack next turn to take out Zulu

take out 4 Zulu units and get another Cav army
we now have 3 Cav armies, we should be able to take out Zulu the very next turn

situation:

we should go for peace with Russia as soon as possible
we should also make sure we have adequate defenses as they sneaked up to an empty city

let's hope that France comes up with Rep Parts soon
currently we can't sell them tech for gpt, they seem little tight on finances

Remember if we attack Arabia, Persia will join in, might be ok with the armies with have now

combustion now ready in 5

we should give that to France in he hope they research flight for us
we also need to time our prebuild right...