Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Excellent, thanks.
SGOTM 12 - Team Zoe
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Excellent, thanks.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
First a confession: on turn 5, I received a demand for Philosophy from Henry. I could see no good reason to give in to his demands, and it hadn't been discussed previously in the thread, so I refused - Portugal DOW.
Apologies if this meets with disapproval, but he doesn't pose any threat to us or our exploring Curragh's, and we have no trade routes to disrupt, and Philosophy is still not widely known.
I configured Constantinople as discussed, and we will have Literature in 3 turns.
Unfortunately France has just learned it; they also hold a monopoly on Currency.
We met Arabia, Iroquois, Russia, and America - from whom I acquired Construction. It is still only known by 3 others so hopefully will still have trade value against Currency when someone else gets it.
Our military consists of 3 Swords, 2 Dromons, 2 AC.
We have reached our limit on unit support (I disbanded the reg Warrior) and we are now paying 3gpt support per unit
>>SAVE<<
Apologies if this meets with disapproval, but he doesn't pose any threat to us or our exploring Curragh's, and we have no trade routes to disrupt, and Philosophy is still not widely known.
I configured Constantinople as discussed, and we will have Literature in 3 turns.
Unfortunately France has just learned it; they also hold a monopoly on Currency.
We met Arabia, Iroquois, Russia, and America - from whom I acquired Construction. It is still only known by 3 others so hopefully will still have trade value against Currency when someone else gets it.
Our military consists of 3 Swords, 2 Dromons, 2 AC.
We have reached our limit on unit support (I disbanded the reg Warrior) and we are now paying 3gpt support per unit
Spoiler :
>>SAVE<<
No probls the way I see it Buce. Until we have trade routes it's not a concern. It's a good reminder though that we need to map out the trade routes because we'll probably get more of those on ITs.
I will probably play this tomorrow while we discuss our next move. I'd think two more dromons and a couple cats should be sufficient to start conquering.
I got it btw.
I will probably play this tomorrow while we discuss our next move. I'd think two more dromons and a couple cats should be sufficient to start conquering.
I got it btw.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
... then we must finish research at once and go 0% to be able to make a worthy military.
A pity about Portugal, really, but since France and India are the only ones to know philo, I think it is a good move, albeit a controversial one given the diplo nature of the game. We'll just have to make sure they are not there to stir up trouble in 2000 years.
A pity about Portugal, really, but since France and India are the only ones to know philo, I think it is a good move, albeit a controversial one given the diplo nature of the game. We'll just have to make sure they are not there to stir up trouble in 2000 years.
I think this is recommended reading for sure.Bamspeedy said:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=44999
zerksees
in remission
Nice work adding a tech. Our aggressive exploration pays off once again.
I can see standing up to demand for a tech - that decision is good by me. I have had enough diplo wins - sometimes these enemies will vote for you at the end.
I don't see it as a big controversy. I suspect there will be enough AI atrocities commited on other AI that this won't cost us in the end.
Mr. Whomp I trust your judgement on starting the wars. Think you can knock out the Aztecs in one turn set?
Edit: Speaking of war - are we ready for a golden age, or should we be careful with our dromons?
I can see standing up to demand for a tech - that decision is good by me. I have had enough diplo wins - sometimes these enemies will vote for you at the end.
I don't see it as a big controversy. I suspect there will be enough AI atrocities commited on other AI that this won't cost us in the end.
Mr. Whomp I trust your judgement on starting the wars. Think you can knock out the Aztecs in one turn set?
Edit: Speaking of war - are we ready for a golden age, or should we be careful with our dromons?
ThERat
Deity
I'd wait with the GA until we have more cities. Taking out Aztecs won't be in a swift move, they do have some units around. I would use dromons purely for bombardment now, so to avoid the GA.
We can MM for 1 turn catapults, but I think dromons are better in this regard.
Once we have literature, I suggest min research until we trade ourselves into the MA
We can MM for 1 turn catapults, but I think dromons are better in this regard.
Once we have literature, I suggest min research until we trade ourselves into the MA
Once we have research, we should be able to trade into the MA immediately. We only need to grab Poly, Philo & Currency, yeah? If we can't, we should be able to trade for all but 1, and run max research to give us a chance at a 2nd tier freebie.
I don't think we need to stress all that much about wars and stuff. Provided we keep our rep clean, we should have no issues declaring on our UN opponent, and allying in the world to help. Getting to build the UN takes an effort, but with a clean rep, winning the election is trivial.
I don't think we need to stress all that much about wars and stuff. Provided we keep our rep clean, we should have no issues declaring on our UN opponent, and allying in the world to help. Getting to build the UN takes an effort, but with a clean rep, winning the election is trivial.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
No, we only require Currency.
zerksees
in remission
Checked the save - we need code of laws and currency to get to MA. "We are technologically advanced!" btw.
The one turn extension of my turnset got us mapmaking, poly and philo.
The one turn extension of my turnset got us mapmaking, poly and philo.
Starting now. Min or max on currency or CoL? I'm inclined to go max on CoL and get another tech we can trade though I wonder how many others will be headed down that path that are missing philo and MM. Currency will likely be available for trade with France later since our 10gpt deal will expire.
Thoughts?
The more I think about it the best would be zero science to let the others research CoL for us and one scientist on currency.
Thoughts?
The more I think about it the best would be zero science to let the others research CoL for us and one scientist on currency.
I'm going to stop in the middle of my turns to discuss this. I have 3 dromons ready to drop off 3 ACs, 2 swords and a cat but as you can see from these two pictures it's likely we need 4 or 5 dromons of units before we can take the Aztecs. The other option is to take the Japanese who don't have horses or iron.
Teno
Teo
Taken pre turn so a few Japanese units have moved around.
Teno
Teo
Taken pre turn so a few Japanese units have moved around.
zerksees
in remission
Not sure what to tell you. I would hate to land on red dot as that would separate Japan and Aztecs. Why not DOW Aztecs, MA Japan against them a couple turns then go after the Aztec capital first. Bait the Aztecs to attack Japan and thin out the untis in the back. If Japan takes out the other city then we know our new city won't flip, and we'll go after it as quickly as possible.
If you think we need a few more dromon loads then that's what we'll have to do.
Min currency is a cheap hedge. We may not want to wait that long to go to the middle ages. Figure CoL will be cheaper to buy than currency. I'd probably just buy them both - I am not sure how critical the slingshot is at this age change.
If you think we need a few more dromon loads then that's what we'll have to do.
Min currency is a cheap hedge. We may not want to wait that long to go to the middle ages. Figure CoL will be cheaper to buy than currency. I'd probably just buy them both - I am not sure how critical the slingshot is at this age change.
We already have CoL from a trade and was already on min for currency.
I think MA'ing by gassing these two makes sense. They're going to beat each other up big time. Here's another case for having a 20 turn MA with Japan.
A. they're polite
B. There's other civs close by. I looked at this pre-turn and here's the distance to each civ. I can get a better update on the bottom ones but you have the idea.
I think MA'ing by gassing these two makes sense. They're going to beat each other up big time. Here's another case for having a 20 turn MA with Japan.
A. they're polite
B. There's other civs close by. I looked at this pre-turn and here's the distance to each civ. I can get a better update on the bottom ones but you have the idea.
Spoiler :
ThERat
Deity
sounds like a good idea to declare on Aztecs, get Japan in immediately and let them fight first, then we take both Aztec cities. If we are lucky, Aztecs could take the lead and we get 3 cities.
Unit support in feudalism stinks, so we have to do this. Also, Japan could be a great ally for the votes and other fights later on.
Unit support in feudalism stinks, so we have to do this. Also, Japan could be a great ally for the votes and other fights later on.
We're running deficit at 0% science right now but we could sell techs to them (our 10gpt deal finishes in7 turns). I'll wait till tomorrow to finish to discuss because I think we could start now.
zerksees
in remission
berzerksees has to disagree. My vote is we assimilate them into our collective (er.. crush them) as soon as the Aztecs are dead and any per turn deals with them are done. I much prefer their cities providing support for our units.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Motion seconded by Bearzerk here, Japan has yummy lands around here and it would be a shame to lose all these coastal beakers for some "electoral promises".
But I have said it a few pages back and I'll say again, let the azzies dull their claws on the land of the rising sun and unleash the dogs on the darker greens afterwards.
Btw I like the distance assessment. I think the claw dulling MA should be repeated against the porto island sooner than later and we can get Rome a bit later, whenever we have our political strings pulled in the west and our military has nothing more worthy of our time.
I'd like to see long lasting peace on the ottoman island, so long as they could potentially gift us a second city on our island.
But I have said it a few pages back and I'll say again, let the azzies dull their claws on the land of the rising sun and unleash the dogs on the darker greens afterwards.
Btw I like the distance assessment. I think the claw dulling MA should be repeated against the porto island sooner than later and we can get Rome a bit later, whenever we have our political strings pulled in the west and our military has nothing more worthy of our time.
I'd like to see long lasting peace on the ottoman island, so long as they could potentially gift us a second city on our island.
ThERat
Deity
the negative income is due to the unit support that is terrible in feudalism
declare on Aztecs immediately and get Japan in (even for a tech), let them fight for a few turns, I suggest you land the units in the forest next to Tenoch...
as for Japan, of course we can assimilate them as well later on
declare on Aztecs immediately and get Japan in (even for a tech), let them fight for a few turns, I suggest you land the units in the forest next to Tenoch...
as for Japan, of course we can assimilate them as well later on
Wow. This variant requires quite a balance between military and economy. I think we'll need to sell techs and resources just to keep our military intact. We may even have to consider disbanding at some point if it becomes too onerous. I'm going to add a lot of pictures to give you a sense of the mass of troops the Aztecs and Japanese have. It's considerable so I waited and we may want to continue waiting till they gas each other.
Here's the log.
Pre-turn: check to see what's in Teohituhcan. I see a vet spear. We're 68% win and 16% draw with our ACs and 69% win with swords vs. spears. It goes to 80% and 8% and 81% with swords if a hp is knocked off the spear. There's one spear outside the city and a reg jag along with vet archer and spear two tiles away without a road where we'd land. I think I'd like to have two cats available for bombard since it's double that of dromons. Four dromons with 4 ACs and 2 swords should do the trick. They have zero iron and no boats (lack philo, MM, poly and construction) so we should be in good shape. The embassy will cost 33g to see what they have in the capital.
The Japanese have a stack of units on their borders and lack horses and iron)They also are down writing, maths and poly. Our dromons would take nearly 7 turns to reach Portugal but I don't anticipate that war will last very long. An embassy will cost 47g when it's time. We may want to sign a MA to keep their units out of our hair. I'm not sure.
IT a couple Aztecs move onto the worker. Japanese move forward. I wonder if they're thinking what we're thinking. If so we may have to whack them instead.
1475 BC Sell a harmless tech with myst to Germans 30g and Shaka 14g since they are ancient and have a little coin. Meet the Carths and they are ancient with 3g and no luxs. See the Greek borders and will meet them next. That completes the field. France is monopoly on lit and currency still. Notice the Scans have an elite Spear on the French border.
IT
1450 BC dromon finishes and start a cat due in 1. Bump up science for the lost beakerheads. Meet the Greeks and we're up philo and MM. They're missing iron and have 24g furs.
IT some units move into Teotihuacan. Dang.
1425 BC French have CoL now. Another AC comes in with the cat. Start a cat. Send out units since our unit support is crushing us. Move lux to 10% for the time being.
IT units move out of Teotihuacan.
1400 BC Another cat finishes and start a sword. The Ports are willing to talk but it's expensive. They still don't have MM so they are zero threat. Babs and Scans get CoL. We're only up lit on Scans and they won't deal straight up. Babs require cash for their missing techs(lit, poly and MM) except construction. I'd like to do poly but we could use the cash since we're running -7gpt and we need a embassy with the Aztecs. Sell construction for 23g and CoL to the Babs.
Establish embassies with Aztecs and Japanese.
Aztec embassy already posted. Here's the Japanese.
Japanese embassy
Declare on the Aztecs and buy the Japanese in. It's quite expensive but we still have 36g at -2gpt.
MA with Japan
IT Crap. The Indians come asking for lit. I give it since we can't really afford another war.
1375 BC Wow that's quite a stack. I'm going to wait two turns so it all moves towards the Japanese. Bombard and hit 2 spears to help the Japanese a bit. Poly is getting cheap so I sell it to the Egyptians for 29g.
Aztec stack
The Japanese stack
IT See some thinning of the herd on both sides.
1350 BC Finish a sword and start a lib but at 3 turns instead of 2.
I have a feeling the Aztecs will get the upperhand with horsemen. We have a trade route with the Indians. It looks very safe since there's no one inbetween us. They'll give spices and gold but no gpt (can someone get currency other than France!) for ivory but we're not in huge need yet so I wait.
Stacks
IT Back and forth with Aztecs and Japanese.
1325 BC I think the vast majority of Aztec units are nearing the Japanese front. I will move next turn. Try to pillage a road inbetween cities without success.
Stacks
IT the Japanese look like they had some positive RNG so this is good.
1300 BC I'll leave the dromons unmoved for Beorn. I think we should pillage the ivory road first(will the worker who is going home stop that?)
Stacks
SummaryI'm not sure the lib was a great idea. We may want to abandon this build unless we think running deficit for awhile will be ok once we attack. Weird set for me to say the least. I hope I didn't mess up too much.
A view of the diplo picture
The Save
Here's the log.
Pre-turn: check to see what's in Teohituhcan. I see a vet spear. We're 68% win and 16% draw with our ACs and 69% win with swords vs. spears. It goes to 80% and 8% and 81% with swords if a hp is knocked off the spear. There's one spear outside the city and a reg jag along with vet archer and spear two tiles away without a road where we'd land. I think I'd like to have two cats available for bombard since it's double that of dromons. Four dromons with 4 ACs and 2 swords should do the trick. They have zero iron and no boats (lack philo, MM, poly and construction) so we should be in good shape. The embassy will cost 33g to see what they have in the capital.
The Japanese have a stack of units on their borders and lack horses and iron)They also are down writing, maths and poly. Our dromons would take nearly 7 turns to reach Portugal but I don't anticipate that war will last very long. An embassy will cost 47g when it's time. We may want to sign a MA to keep their units out of our hair. I'm not sure.
IT a couple Aztecs move onto the worker. Japanese move forward. I wonder if they're thinking what we're thinking. If so we may have to whack them instead.
1475 BC Sell a harmless tech with myst to Germans 30g and Shaka 14g since they are ancient and have a little coin. Meet the Carths and they are ancient with 3g and no luxs. See the Greek borders and will meet them next. That completes the field. France is monopoly on lit and currency still. Notice the Scans have an elite Spear on the French border.
IT
1450 BC dromon finishes and start a cat due in 1. Bump up science for the lost beakerheads. Meet the Greeks and we're up philo and MM. They're missing iron and have 24g furs.
IT some units move into Teotihuacan. Dang.
1425 BC French have CoL now. Another AC comes in with the cat. Start a cat. Send out units since our unit support is crushing us. Move lux to 10% for the time being.
IT units move out of Teotihuacan.
1400 BC Another cat finishes and start a sword. The Ports are willing to talk but it's expensive. They still don't have MM so they are zero threat. Babs and Scans get CoL. We're only up lit on Scans and they won't deal straight up. Babs require cash for their missing techs(lit, poly and MM) except construction. I'd like to do poly but we could use the cash since we're running -7gpt and we need a embassy with the Aztecs. Sell construction for 23g and CoL to the Babs.
Establish embassies with Aztecs and Japanese.
Aztec embassy already posted. Here's the Japanese.
Japanese embassy
Declare on the Aztecs and buy the Japanese in. It's quite expensive but we still have 36g at -2gpt.
MA with Japan
IT Crap. The Indians come asking for lit. I give it since we can't really afford another war.
1375 BC Wow that's quite a stack. I'm going to wait two turns so it all moves towards the Japanese. Bombard and hit 2 spears to help the Japanese a bit. Poly is getting cheap so I sell it to the Egyptians for 29g.
Aztec stack
The Japanese stack
IT See some thinning of the herd on both sides.
1350 BC Finish a sword and start a lib but at 3 turns instead of 2.
I have a feeling the Aztecs will get the upperhand with horsemen. We have a trade route with the Indians. It looks very safe since there's no one inbetween us. They'll give spices and gold but no gpt (can someone get currency other than France!) for ivory but we're not in huge need yet so I wait.
Stacks
IT Back and forth with Aztecs and Japanese.
1325 BC I think the vast majority of Aztec units are nearing the Japanese front. I will move next turn. Try to pillage a road inbetween cities without success.
Stacks
IT the Japanese look like they had some positive RNG so this is good.
1300 BC I'll leave the dromons unmoved for Beorn. I think we should pillage the ivory road first(will the worker who is going home stop that?)
Stacks
SummaryI'm not sure the lib was a great idea. We may want to abandon this build unless we think running deficit for awhile will be ok once we attack. Weird set for me to say the least. I hope I didn't mess up too much.
A view of the diplo picture
The Save
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