Smart
King
Yes almost done, I have civ opened and playing last turns of turnset.
SGOTM 12 - Team Zoe
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Smart
King
Pre-turn: MMed Delhi for extra shields, also building courthouse there instead of market, because we don't need it right now with our research, but less corruption will help always. MMed Bears Den for faster Aqueduct as it can't grow currently.
Upgraded one sword to MDI.
Turn 1 - 50 AD: Upgraded 2 dromons to transport more units - some trebuchets transported later will be more usefull then weak bombardment anyway. Upgraded one sword too.
Gifted Education vs some gold for scientific civs who had Theology already to let them research things faster for us.
Turn 2 - 70 AD: Transporting some units, nothing much...
Turn 5 - 130 AD: We completed Copernicus in The Zoo. MMed it for 3-turn knights.
All units were transported, I'll attack Thebes after this turn.
Turn 6 - 150 AD: Took their capital [4-0]. Moved some units to heal.
Turn 7 - 170 AD: Killed shipped spear and archer [6-1]
Banking in one turn, moved science slider to avoid waste of breakers. Next tech will be Gunpowder.
Turn 8 - 190 AD: Some gpt deals expired and now we are losing gpt on 100% research, but I leave it so, because we have enough gold and can get more for selling techs.
Celts are really behind in techs... gifted them alphabet, writing and literature, maybe they will do something to recover.
Moved troops to Memphis.
IBT: I transported some units from Istanbul and it rioted without MP... It should be fixed after the next turn.
Turn 9 - 210 AD: Took Memphis and destroyed Egypt [9-1].
I'll stop here and leave new war for the next player. Rome is closer then Portugal, so we may take them first. They haven't Feudalism yet, so it will be easy target.
There are some units in boats, on persian continent and in The Zoo, we may need few extra caravels for faster transporting. Dromon in Osaka can be upgraded to caravel if needed. Other caravel near Tiwanku must take trebuchets and transport them somewhere, because they can't move on jungles.
We may gift some techs for civs to let them research for us, currently we are researching everything ourselves. There are some civs who even didn't entered into MA...
Save: Team_Zoe_SG012_AD0210_01.SAV
Upgraded one sword to MDI.
Turn 1 - 50 AD: Upgraded 2 dromons to transport more units - some trebuchets transported later will be more usefull then weak bombardment anyway. Upgraded one sword too.
Gifted Education vs some gold for scientific civs who had Theology already to let them research things faster for us.
Turn 2 - 70 AD: Transporting some units, nothing much...
Turn 5 - 130 AD: We completed Copernicus in The Zoo. MMed it for 3-turn knights.
All units were transported, I'll attack Thebes after this turn.
Turn 6 - 150 AD: Took their capital [4-0]. Moved some units to heal.
Turn 7 - 170 AD: Killed shipped spear and archer [6-1]
Banking in one turn, moved science slider to avoid waste of breakers. Next tech will be Gunpowder.
Turn 8 - 190 AD: Some gpt deals expired and now we are losing gpt on 100% research, but I leave it so, because we have enough gold and can get more for selling techs.
Celts are really behind in techs... gifted them alphabet, writing and literature, maybe they will do something to recover.
Moved troops to Memphis.
IBT: I transported some units from Istanbul and it rioted without MP... It should be fixed after the next turn.
Turn 9 - 210 AD: Took Memphis and destroyed Egypt [9-1].
I'll stop here and leave new war for the next player. Rome is closer then Portugal, so we may take them first. They haven't Feudalism yet, so it will be easy target.
There are some units in boats, on persian continent and in The Zoo, we may need few extra caravels for faster transporting. Dromon in Osaka can be upgraded to caravel if needed. Other caravel near Tiwanku must take trebuchets and transport them somewhere, because they can't move on jungles.
We may gift some techs for civs to let them research for us, currently we are researching everything ourselves. There are some civs who even didn't entered into MA...
Save: Team_Zoe_SG012_AD0210_01.SAV
Looks great Smart! Gems!
Our chart continues to show a solid incline.
So how are we going to get the AI to research? We need to make more space for the other scientifics and commercials. Taking out the Ports or Romans next?
Beorn --
ThERat--
Smart -- grabbed more cities.
Zerksees-- up
Bucephalus -- On deck
Whomp--
Sanabas -- Give us a wavey when you can be re-inserted
Our chart continues to show a solid incline.
So how are we going to get the AI to research? We need to make more space for the other scientifics and commercials. Taking out the Ports or Romans next?
Beorn --
ThERat--
Smart -- grabbed more cities.
Zerksees-- up
Bucephalus -- On deck
Whomp--
Sanabas -- Give us a wavey when you can be re-inserted
ThERat
Deity
great job taking out Egypt and giving us Thebes, it should give us plenty of commerce and science beakers 
I'd say self research gunpowder (how many turns left?) and chemistry. We might want to sell chemistry immediately once we have it to those capable AI's so that maybe we get metal or physics from there (though unlikely).
I fear the AI's are still too weak, though Persia looks good and should take out Mongols or Dutch next. Maybe we can ask them to fight Dutch now...they should be able to gobble them up, since Dutch fought Egypt for so long. If we are not sure, we can always ask Babylon to join in.
I would also try and get Persia to take out Mongols, so we can shift attention to the French pelago once we have cavalry.
I strongly advise againts fighting Rome now as they do have iron and their UU. Our strongest units have attack 4 and their UU has defense 3. We will suffer many losses. I'd rather wait for cavalry to fight them. They also have amassed plenty of units. As long as there are Islands with 2 Civ's I would aim for them.
Arabia now has 5 cities and took over Iro's. Once that war ended, we might want to take on Carthago or someone else there. I prefer that to Rome.
We can take on Portugal and hopefully bag a MGL there. I think fighting Portugal and on the Arab Island should be possible at the same time. We can churn out many units in our capital before it has to go on another Newton prebuild.
By the way, our 2nd MGL should form an army so we can use the HE as a prebuild in our capital.
I'd say self research gunpowder (how many turns left?) and chemistry. We might want to sell chemistry immediately once we have it to those capable AI's so that maybe we get metal or physics from there (though unlikely).
I fear the AI's are still too weak, though Persia looks good and should take out Mongols or Dutch next. Maybe we can ask them to fight Dutch now...they should be able to gobble them up, since Dutch fought Egypt for so long. If we are not sure, we can always ask Babylon to join in.
I would also try and get Persia to take out Mongols, so we can shift attention to the French pelago once we have cavalry.
I strongly advise againts fighting Rome now as they do have iron and their UU. Our strongest units have attack 4 and their UU has defense 3. We will suffer many losses. I'd rather wait for cavalry to fight them. They also have amassed plenty of units. As long as there are Islands with 2 Civ's I would aim for them.
Arabia now has 5 cities and took over Iro's. Once that war ended, we might want to take on Carthago or someone else there. I prefer that to Rome.
We can take on Portugal and hopefully bag a MGL there. I think fighting Portugal and on the Arab Island should be possible at the same time. We can churn out many units in our capital before it has to go on another Newton prebuild.
By the way, our 2nd MGL should form an army so we can use the HE as a prebuild in our capital.
ThERat
Deity
thinking long term a little... about the tech race to the UN.
Which are the 2 most expensive IA techs? I can't remember, but electronics should be on the list for sure.
The reason I am asking is simple. We will get 2 free techs via ToE. The usual thing would be to take AT and electronics. However, if the AI is pretty incapable to research fast to sci methods, we might be able to bag a more expensive tech than AT. Anyone has the numbers? We might want to delay the build until we get AT self researched and take maybe electronics and flight...might be possible as the AI tend to research the upper paths in the IA.
Thoughts?
Which are the 2 most expensive IA techs? I can't remember, but electronics should be on the list for sure.
The reason I am asking is simple. We will get 2 free techs via ToE. The usual thing would be to take AT and electronics. However, if the AI is pretty incapable to research fast to sci methods, we might be able to bag a more expensive tech than AT. Anyone has the numbers? We might want to delay the build until we get AT self researched and take maybe electronics and flight...might be possible as the AI tend to research the upper paths in the IA.
Thoughts?
zerksees
in remission
I got it and will play tomorrow - about 20 hrs from now. Open discussion til then.
We only have 2 AC, 2 MI, 1 pike and 4 treb on Indian landmass. Nowhere near ready to take on Portugal, or really defend ourselves. Oh and annoying Ottoman spears wandering
Aztec landmass sporting 4 units: 2 pike, 1 AC, 1 MI.
We can support 56 units, we only have 33: 5 pike, 2 knight, 2 caravel, 7 MI, 4 treb, 1 dromon, 12 ancient cavs
1) No good to go after Dutch yet IMO. Swiss mercs will be tough on the Persians. I guess I could investigate a Swiss city and see how many are in there. We should probably put Persia and Swiss (and Babs?) against the tech backward Mongols and hope the Persians get the cities. Dutch and Mongols for a couple turns then join in Persia.
2) Our free army is at Egypt. We are paper thin on the Indian landmass. Looking at the map, maybe Carthage could be the next victim - but not much value since they are far off and don't have great cities. If we hit them I'll need another boat. The other choice is to haul the army back to Portugal.
3) What happened to the workers? 21 slave workers is great, but not enough to service 14 cities. Should I make a few?
4) Do we want a bank in the Zoo or should I stick to more units?
I agree Rome is a bad target, and I agree we could hold off ToE for a while unless we can build up a good trading partner
Oh and I am not counting out Spooks yet.
We only have 2 AC, 2 MI, 1 pike and 4 treb on Indian landmass. Nowhere near ready to take on Portugal, or really defend ourselves. Oh and annoying Ottoman spears wandering
Aztec landmass sporting 4 units: 2 pike, 1 AC, 1 MI.
We can support 56 units, we only have 33: 5 pike, 2 knight, 2 caravel, 7 MI, 4 treb, 1 dromon, 12 ancient cavs
1) No good to go after Dutch yet IMO. Swiss mercs will be tough on the Persians. I guess I could investigate a Swiss city and see how many are in there. We should probably put Persia and Swiss (and Babs?) against the tech backward Mongols and hope the Persians get the cities. Dutch and Mongols for a couple turns then join in Persia.
2) Our free army is at Egypt. We are paper thin on the Indian landmass. Looking at the map, maybe Carthage could be the next victim - but not much value since they are far off and don't have great cities. If we hit them I'll need another boat. The other choice is to haul the army back to Portugal.
3) What happened to the workers? 21 slave workers is great, but not enough to service 14 cities. Should I make a few?
4) Do we want a bank in the Zoo or should I stick to more units?
I agree Rome is a bad target, and I agree we could hold off ToE for a while unless we can build up a good trading partner
Oh and I am not counting out Spooks yet.
Electronics and Atomic Theory are the 2 most expensive. Flight and motorised transport are marginally cheaper from memory. Electronics/AT (whichever is earlier on the tree) is most expensive by a long way, so there's little benefit to holding off on ToE, as you'll want Electronics/AT with it, which immediately means you can also grab atomic theory/electronics with it as well.
With a productive AI, it is possible to get them to research Replaceable parts for you, then one of steel/refining, then flight by gifting combustion as soon as we have it, and we research motorised transport/mass production ourselves. Hopefully the top AI goes with flight while we grab the other 2.
The AI might waste a lot less time on communism/fascism this time, as there are no govts attached to them. They'll still go for nationalism first though.
zerksees
in remission
I should add that I think we need more fake wars to thin the herd some more. By doing this are we making it harder to win the UN? I have to ask before I start something 
I should add that I think we need more fake wars to thin the herd some more. By doing this are we making it harder to win the UN? I have to ask before I start something
No, we're not making it harder. Winning the vote is trivial, provided we don't completely trash our rep by breaking alliances, breaking trades, or ROP rape. Provided the wars don't do any of those 3, they'll have no effect on the vote.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I think banks are really not worth it - we'll be running 0-30% (large max imho) cash rate, between science and lux tax, and the banks are not worth the troops - Especially now. We need to gear up for more wars: more maces, more trebs, few more pikes.
Rome could be a good target if we had a much larger military, and might be interesting once we have cavs.
X-post: reputation clean is all we need. One of them will step up, we go to war, ally everyone, win. The actual work is getting through the IA ASAP.
Rome could be a good target if we had a much larger military, and might be interesting once we have cavs.
X-post: reputation clean is all we need. One of them will step up, we go to war, ally everyone, win. The actual work is getting through the IA ASAP.
ThERat
Deity
thanks sanabas for clearing that up...maybe someone could run CA2 and get the actual figures for tech costs, then we make sure that AT/electronics is the combo to go for...
as for nationalism, since we want that 2 tier-IA tech, some AI's will have nationalism anyway, might as well gift it to the rest and hope they will research industrialization while we go for electricity/sci methods
zerksees, I am all for more wars, as I pointed out earlier. Let all those bigger Islands fight each other. I also like your idea Dutch vs Mongols with Persia joining in later.
Carthage looks like a good target. After that, Arabia could be taken on etc etc. Maybe we can shift units over, while we also build up a force in India to fight Portugal.
As for the UN, once the vote comes up, we simply make sure, we fight against the UN opponent and pull in everyone to fight on our side...easy win IMO
edit: x-post with BeF. I agree with you, we should not build any bank ever. Markets are good for happiness multiplier, but I think we should run 100% science almost throughout the game except for few turns.
courts/libraries/unis and markets are what we need to build.
as for nationalism, since we want that 2 tier-IA tech, some AI's will have nationalism anyway, might as well gift it to the rest and hope they will research industrialization while we go for electricity/sci methods
zerksees, I am all for more wars, as I pointed out earlier. Let all those bigger Islands fight each other. I also like your idea Dutch vs Mongols with Persia joining in later.
Carthage looks like a good target. After that, Arabia could be taken on etc etc. Maybe we can shift units over, while we also build up a force in India to fight Portugal.
As for the UN, once the vote comes up, we simply make sure, we fight against the UN opponent and pull in everyone to fight on our side...easy win IMO
edit: x-post with BeF. I agree with you, we should not build any bank ever. Markets are good for happiness multiplier, but I think we should run 100% science almost throughout the game except for few turns.
courts/libraries/unis and markets are what we need to build.
eldar
ChiefTank
lurker's comment: AT and Electronics are the most expensive IA techs, yes. But... how about leaving the AIs in the dust and using ToE to research the last IA tech (whatever that turns out to be...) and... FISSION. No lotteries, no horse-trading, and so on. Just build ToE in a city ahead of the UN pre-build city in the queue, and flip from the Big Picture/Examine City screen.
It's only a thought... but how much time would that save versus trying to persuade the AIs to not research Nationalism, Communism, and Fascism? Or will they given they're not Govt techs in this game?
It's only a thought... but how much time would that save versus trying to persuade the AIs to not research Nationalism, Communism, and Fascism? Or will they given they're not Govt techs in this game?
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I think it's safe enough to get in the modern age putting our hopes on getting fission through SCI tech popping. we have under 1/10 chance to have to research it on foot, and that would cost us what, 7, 8 turns? I'll take the gamble.
zerksees
in remission
Banks increase the amount of gold we produce. When science is at 100% won't that increase the number of beakers we make, since we put all the gold into science? Increasing the gold from the Zoo by 50% should be a significant amount of gold. What am I missing here? I don't mind if we don't build them it just goes against what I would do if I wanted to crank up the science. I'd put up the libs and markets, then unis, then banks, stock exch, research labs etc.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
lurker's comment: when you set the science rate and lux rate, the tax rate is set from that.
For instance if you are running @ 50% science & 30% luxury, that means that your tax rate is 20%.
For instance if you are running @ 50% science & 30% luxury, that means that your tax rate is 20%.
- markets, banks, stock markets increase only the taxed gold (gold that is dumped into your coffers)
- libraries, universities, & research labs increase only the science gold (gold that is converted to beakers for science)
- collesiums, temples, & cathedrals increase the number of happy faces allowing you to decrease your lux rate.
zerksees
in remission
OK thanks. I wonder how I ever got off warlord level.
eldar
ChiefTank
lurker's comment: Banks allow Stock Exchanges. Stock Exchanges allow Wall Street. If you want Wall Street, figure on putting up 5 banks. Banks will multiply what you get when turning down research with 1 or 2 turns left. But yeah, a waste of 2 Cavalry otherwise!
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
OK thanks. I wonder how I ever got off warlord level.
Hmm, it might be something to do with persistantly wrecking AI cities.....
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
We should get through the IA fast enough that wall street won't pay off that much, eldar. I wouldn't put much stock into banks AND stocks AND a small wonder for 50gpt.
zerksees
in remission
Hmm, it might be something to do with persistantly wrecking AI cities.....
Good one- and very true.This game will be a first though - starting global conflicts and not really participating - actually wanting an AI to take over anothers cities - rare for me. I want them all myself!
