SGOTM 12 - X-Nuts

[denyd]

A quick update - Orleans is ours & Joanie is gone - Artillery being disbanded to hurry along library & university in Paris & Orleans - Orleans has Smith's so I'm adding markets, banks & harbors (no support costs) to cities - also working on replacing obsolete units with infantrymen as border defense - With luck I'll complete my set later today

 

[AVN]

Sounds good

I guess our science slider is back on 100% now ?

 

[leif erikson]

Yup!!

Keep up the good work.
Am I glad Joannie has been sent to Saint Helena to visit Napoloen...

 

[denyd]

THE SAVE

SGOTM 12 – Turn Set 5

Turn 0 – 1480 AD - Change a bunch of military builds to peaceful items – Trade Wool to India for 3gpt – Something bad must have happened recently as no one else will give us gpt for anything – Trade WM around for 37g – Dropping research to 60% gains 3 more turns of research (@ -27gpt) and disband a couple of units to get that down to –15gpt

IBT: Vikings and England sign embargo against us – India & England sign peace – England & Russia sign peace – Wines to Celts for 2gpt – Sign peace with Portugal getting his WM – Amsterdam infantry->university – Pasagardae infantry->bank

Turn 1 – 1485 AD – A bunch of disbands of older units (I plan on replacing all obsolete MP units with Infantrymen) and we’re able to raise the research rate back to 70% with refining due in 12 at –9gpt (treasury is 109g) - Note that I’m now adding markets, banks & harbors with the expectation of getting Smith’s when I take Orleans (no support costs), note that we are still paying 174gpt in military support

IBT: Carthage-France Embargo against us ends as India destroys Carthage – Ottoman-Portugal Embargo against us ends – Military Tradition to Inca gets us Spices – Constantinople court->bank – Paris library->university – Babylon library->harbor – Amsterdam university->market – Kyoto infantry->infantry – Osaka infantry->infantry – Rotterdam library->university

Turn 2 – 1490 AD: Assault on Orleans: Artillery goes 10 for 11 to reduce all defenders to 1hp – the 2 cavalry armies kill the 6 defenders and we capture Orleans with Smith’s Trading Post + Hanging Gardens + Great Lighthouse + Leonardo’s Workshop – Disbanding the 3 captured French artillery hurries a library in Orleans

IBT: Paris university->worker – Teno court->bank – Orleans library->university

Turn 3 – 1495 AD – Send a couple workers to help out old France territory – retire some more troops

IBT: Renew ROP with India – Decide not to renew ROP with Vikings since he’s furious with us already and might need to go (only a single city) – Portugal & Russia sign peace – Inca renew ivory for 7gpt deal – Paris worker->worker – Thebes infantry->court

Turn 4 – 1500 AD – 6 artillery pieces hurry a university in Orleans – Workers cleaning up mess by Paris

IBT: Constantinople bank->stock exchange – Paris bank->stock exchange – Persepolis market->bank – Orleans university->stock exchange – Nineveh university->bank

Turn 5 – 1505 AD – Sign peace with England getting WM – Trade Medicine to Iroquois for 3gpt + WM + 33g

IBT: Renew Coal to India for 12gpt – Paris stock exchange->factory – Orleans stock exchange->factory

Turn 6 – 1510 AD – Final disbanding takes place – at 100% (we’re currently at 90%) we’ll be running a 4gpt deficit – Unit support is currently 15gpt

IBT: Renew Ivory + Gems to India for 8gpt – Paris factory->military academy – Washington library->university – Memphis court->bank

Turn 7 – 1515 AD – Trade Steam Power to Iroquois for 5gpt + 15g

IBT: Constantinople stock exchange->infantry – Babylon harbor->bank – Amsterdam market->bank – Kyoto infantry->infantry

Turn 8 - 1520 AD – Trade Industrialization to Iroquois for Furs + WM + 1gpt + 6g

IBT: Discover Refining research Steel (due in 7 @ 100%) – Teno bank->stock exchange – Orleans factory->barracks

Turn 9 – 1525 AD – Just cleaning up pollution and working on Paris & Orleans – BTW: We have a connected oil near Memphis and Pasagardae as well as one not connected near Washington

IBT: Rotterdam university->bank

Turn 10 – 1530 AD – Trade The Corporation to Ottomans for WM + 7gpt + 14g

For those curious we are average against Inca & Hittites and strong against the others I checked – Replacing the remaining obsolete units with Infantry and later tanks should get us to strong against all – We have 3 completed and a 4th Stock Exchange in process, one more and Orleans can build Wall Street – my plan for the Military Academy in Paris was to build Armies to replace the Knight & Cavalry ones and to have those disband (for 100 shields) in a corrupt town. Actually, once the obsolete units are gone some cities will not have much to build – BTW: not sure if we want to, but I have been irrigating Paris (and railing, this I’m sure of) – I’m not 100% sure, but the world may be completely at peace.

 

[leif erikson]

After all that rush to get an army built to defeat Joannie, must have been tough to have to disband it...

Time to choose the civ to become our rival in the UN race? Anyone else that need to be sent into exile?

Roster:
Gator - UP
Mathilda - On Deck
Leif
Civ_steve
AVN
Bluebox
Denyd - just played!

Haven't heard from Gator in a couple of days, so I think he may need a skip. We'll know for sure in 24 hours.

 

[leif erikson]

Updated Roster:
Mathilda - UP
Leif - On Deck
Civ_steve
AVN
Bluebox
Denyd
Gator - skip

Good luck Mathilda

 

[AVN]

Had a look at the save and the following points require attention IMO.

There are around 35 turns left till we reach the Modern Age and therefore :

1) Where to build the UN (costs 1000 shields) and what to use as a prebuild ?
We can't use the palace (costs only 400 shields), so that leaves us with Hoover (800 shields).
However Hoover can only be built in a city which has a river in it's radius and we don't have a lot of such cities. After checking them Amsterdam seems to be the best option, although it's doing around 20 shields a turn atm. But we can increase it's production with a factory and a coal plant and we can probably use a few civil engineers when building the wonder. Still we will lose a number of turns between getting Fission and finishing the UN.
Still we should build the factory and coal plant asap.

2) Even if they don't cost upkeep we don't need urgently banks or stock exchanges.
We will do (at least intend to) research 100% and tax 0%. And 50% bonus on 0 is still 0. However we still can use a number of courthouses on Japan/Aztec island. And that will help improving our research. So Mathilda please build them there.
And please get rid of Washington. The place is doing absolutely nothing for us, except increasing corruption in our other cities.

3) Our relations with the rest of the world are quite bad. Most are annoyed or furious and quite a number of them refuse to trade with them. I don't know what has caused that, but IMO we should try to improve some relations by gifting some techs or luxuries (preferably one of them a turn to each country).

4) Quite a number of places (except for Amsterdam) can still be irrigated. This will give us the possibility to appoint a few scientists (especially in Paris and in corrupt cities).

5) Do we really need the Military Academy ? Do we have war plans or de we follow Mathilda's suggestion to gift most of our territory to our contender in the vote the turn before we finish the UN (that lucky country will become our opponent in the vote then).
In case we want to reorganize the rest of the world in favour of our contender then we should better make a plan for that soon. In not too many turns we will have that vote.
BTW : I'm in favour of Mathilda's plan.

OK. The usual 2 cents from me

@Mathilda. Good luck

 

[denyd]

Isn't Washington providing our sole supply of silks?

My thought was to use the MA to build armies that could disband for 100 shields each.cAside from that, there's not much else for Constantinople to build.

As for the banks & stock exchanges, with 2 more stock exchanges, we could build Wall Street and with the current treasury, we'd be able to add 20-25gpt.

 

[Mathilda]

Got it
Day off tomorrow - excellent for civ.
Kids around tomorrow - not so good for civ.

 

[leif erikson]

1) Where to build the UN (costs 1000 shields) and what to use as a prebuild ?
We can't use the palace (costs only 400 shields), so that leaves us with Hoover (800 shields).
However Hoover can only be built in a city which has a river in it's radius and we don't have a lot of such cities. After checking them Amsterdam seems to be the best option, although it's doing around 20 shields a turn atm. But we can increase it's production with a factory and a coal plant and we can probably use a few civil engineers when building the wonder. Still we will lose a number of turns between getting Fission and finishing the UN.
Still we should build the factory and coal plant asap.

I think there may be a faster way?

If we build 5 Hospitals, Battlefield Medicine, at 500 shields, becomes available to build. If we mine and rail all
If Joannie could use Paris as a Wonderthe tiles around Paris and add a Coal Plant, we should be able to get the shield production up over 100 per turn. That would give us the UN about 5 turns after we discover Fission.

Sorry, but I can't remember if disbanded units can be used towards wonders? If so, we could prepare some for this purpose as Denyd suggested.

Too bad we've already had our Golden Age, we could use one in about 36 turns.

If Joannie could use Paris to pump out wonders, seems we should be able to too.

My $0.02, and it may be all its worth?

 

[Mathilda]

AFAIK, nobody's researched sanitation, so we'd have to do that first.
I'm not sure if it's still faster then.

 

[leif erikson]

AFAIK, nobody's researched sanitation, so we'd have to do that first.
I'm not sure if it's still faster then.

Darn, I missed Sanitation...

Have to keep thinking then?

 

[civ_steve]

I know you can't rush Wonders, or use MGL's towards them. Disbanding doesn't seem likely either, but we can test that by setting a city where we don't want Hoover's to Hoover's and see if shields from disbanding a unit there count (or if we even have the option.)

 

[AVN]

Disbanding units doesn't give shields for the wonder.
And if an unit was disbanded already for the current build then the current build can't be changed in a wonder anymore.

Same rules apply for cutting forest.

 

[civ_steve]

That's what I thought. You can disband the unit, or chop the forest, and the shields go into nowhere. So don't do that!

I'm sure learning Sanitation ourselves would be much more expensive in turns than just pre-building Hoover's and spending a few turns in the ModEra. We can set up France in case the AI learns Sani for us, but I'd plan on using our best city for shields at size12 as our pre-build.

For votes, we can definitely be gifting any extra resources we have. Also, gift a few of the older Techs. We may want to declare on unfought war and get people aligned with us. Who's likely to be our opponent? We'll want to do things to isolate the contenders.

(edit - didn't Paris build Shakespeare's? If so, can't it be any size? It would seem a good candidate for UN (except for the river issue - doh!) )

 

[denyd]

How potent is Orleans shield wise? Maybe we could use either a palace, FP , pentagon or wall street (not sure of shield costs of each without cheat sheet handy). It's close enough to Paris to have limited corruption. Also we're still getting quite a few spt in Constantinople, so that's another alternative site.

 

[Mathilda]

HERE is the save.

And here the mixed nuts:

Preturn 1530AD

Gift
- wines to Ottomans, annoyed -> polite
- wool to Germany, furious -> annoyed
- wool to Arabia, stays annoyed
- wool to Rome, furious -> annoyed
- wm to Russia (they have a trade embargo aginst us), stays annoyed
- silks to India (was always gracious, now annoyed), -> polite
- banking to England, stays annoyed
- wool to Inca, annoyed -> polite
- Korea already polite, skip him
- Music Theory to Portugal, furious -> annoyed
- ivory to Hittites, stays cautious
- banking to Celts, stays annoyed
- wines to Spain, annoyed -> polite
- wool to Zulu, furious -> annoyed
- wool to Sumeria, even though they were polite already
- Wool to Iroquois, annoyed -> polite
- skip Scandinavia, don't have anything brilliant to gift them.

mm Paris for another 30gpt
Change Babylon from bank to courthouse
Amsterdam from bank to factory
Kyoto from infantry to courthouse
Osaka from infantry to courthouse
Teotihuacan bank to courthouse
Rotterdam from bank to courthouse
Some mm on the way and steel is down from six turns to five.


IBT
Renew wines for 3gpt with Korea
Pollution in Const inf-> inf
Paris coal plant (now at 80 shields) -> cav
Orelans barracks -> worker

Turn 1 1535 AD
Clear pollution, rail around Orleans

IBT
Trade embargo against us between Scandinavia and Portugal ends.
Paris cav -> wealth
Orleans worker -> wealth
Osaka courthouse -> bank

Turn 2 1540
realise I should concentrate the railing around Paris, doh

More gifting Germany wines - still annoyed
Arabs wines, still annoyed
Portugal Ivory, annoyed to cautious
Roma Annoyed -> cautious
Hittites ivory - still cautious
Celts economics, still annoyed - damn
Zulu ivory annoyed -> polite
England Democracy, still annoyed


IBT:
Renew saltpetre for 6gpt with India
Russia and Iroquois sign peace.
As do Portugal and Hittites.
Renew gems for 10gpt with Hittites.
Const inf -> inf
Pasargadae bank -> SE


Turn 3 1545AD
Just railing and redistributing infantry.

IBT:
Sumeria wants to trade world maps, why not.
Renew gems for 4 gpt with Korea

Kyoto courthouse -> bank

Turn 4 1550AD
Just your railing.
Steel next turn at 70%.

IBT:
Steel learned, Combustion due in seven.
Const inf-> inf

Turn 5 1555AD
Ship 2/2 inf towards Amsterdam, so we can use the shields.

IBT:
Korea wants to talk, wms, ok.
Renew ivory for 2gpt with them as well.

Turn 6 1560AD
Start palace in Const as a prebuild for wall street.

IBT:
Tenochtitlan SE -> wealth
Rotterdam courthouse -> bank

Turn 7 1565AD
nothing

Turn 8 1570ad
find another conscript to disband.

Sell wm to
Ottomans for 12g.
Germany for 3g
Rome 7g +wm
Russia 3g
India 4g
Inca 2g+wm
Korea 1g
Celts 3g
Spain 4g
England 2g
Arabia 4g
Iroquois 3g

Sell Democracy to Spain for 15g + 16gpt

Gift
Portugal wool, still cautious
Rome Democracy, annoyed -> cautious
Inca medicine annoyed -> polite
Celts Free artistry, still annoyed
Zulu education annoyed -> polite
England Free artistry, still annoyed


IBT:
Ottomans want MPP and ROP, no thanks.
Gift him Wool to keep him happy.
Renew Ivory for 5 gpt with Arabia
Gems for 10gpt with Inca
Persepolis Bank -> harbour
Amsterdam factory -> coal plant
Nineveh bank -> stock exchange

Turn 9 1575AD
A barb camp pops up in the jungle near Washington,
kill one barb warrior with a cav, ready to take camp next turn

IBT:
Vikings send three berserkers to deal with the barb camp
Teotihuacan courthouse -> wealth

Turn 10 1580AD
clear barb camp.


Notes:
Const is building palace, change to Wall street when our fifth stock exchange completes.
Made a mistake in gifting the silks to India, so couldn't then give away Washington, sorry about that


There's an Indian musket having a picnic on a hill in Paris territory.
We have 3 turns of ROP left with them, should we renew and lose the opportunity to clear the
pollution from that hill and get it railed, or renew the ROP?
Will you just take a look at Paris and the amount of gold going to science!!!!

 

[AVN]

@Mathilda. Nice work

I'm especially impressed by the improvement of our science.
In 18 turns we can be in the Modern Age now. Maybe even a little bit faster if the next player is able to improve the science a little bit more.

The wonder building seems to become the bottleneck now.

Paris is at 90 shields now and can with mining be improved to 122 shields which means it will need 5 turns to bridge the gap of 600 shields between the highest available prebuild (Mil Academy) for it. I don't see this reduced to 4 turns.

Once Amsterdam has finished the Coal Plant, it can start on Hoover and it will need 5 turns too, between finishing that and the UN. It will do at least 40 shields, but with mining and some micromanagement it can be improved to at least 50 so that it will bridge the gap between Hoover and the UN in 4 turns.

Therefore is the fastest option.

I think it's good to disband some units in Amsterdam to rush the build of the Coal plant (several Bank builds can be changed to military) and directly after that it can start on Hoover. And as I said several tiles can still be mined there so that the building will go faster.

I believe the next player is civ_steve.

Good luck

 

[leif erikson]

Nice work Mathilda!

Can't wait to have a look at Paris...

Roster:
Civ_steve - UP
Leif - On Deck
AVN
Bluebox
Denyd
Gator
Mathilda - Just played!

Nice catch AVN. I'd forgotten that Steve and I swapped a while ago. Went back and checked and Steve should be up. My poor old memory, can't trust it anymore.

 

[civ_steve]

whoa, I guess I'm up (sorry, I've been doing house things; almost ready to move in. )

OK, I'll post a got-it, and probably play tomorrow afternoon. AVN's analysis looks pretty good; if I see something else I'll post a comment before playing.