SGOTM 13 - klarius

[klarius]

We have coal from Mongols. The deal would expire IBT. So just renegotiate it now (will cost quite a few gpt, but we can afford it). We need the coal, so make sure it isn't away.

Portuguese cities can be kept, as we assume Portugal is away within a few turns. But I wouldn't keep Spanish cities as they would be a flip risk for a long time. Especially as we should not go on a big conquest now, but build up the land we have.

 

[Wotan]

Thanks, I will probably have time to play later today, if not I will definitely play tomorrow.

 

[Wotan]

This game is forbiddingly slow. Interesting scenario but my computer is simply not fast enough for it. I have been playing for almost 3 hours now and been able to play 3 turns. Will ahe to take a pause now for RL things and will probably not have time to pick it up again until tomorrow. But we have a good lead vs. the other teams so it should not be a problem.

Portugal is not gone, they have a Settler on a ship somewhere. I am rushing Frigates and taking out their ships as fast as I can.

Started nibbling at Spain and will continue to take bites out of her.

 

[Northern Pike]

Yes, it'll be interesting to see how many teams even finish the game.

Maddening news about the Portuguese settler.

 

[Wotan]

I'm really struggling but should be able to finish 10 turns before the week is over. It is hilarious to play, if only you could elave the PC while it goes through the IBT phase but then there are all the pop ups about events you ned to acknowledge.

 

[Northern Pike]

When you start asking yourself "What book will I read this round?" you know the interturns are slow.

 

[ThERat]

maybe my tolerance level has gone up a lot, but I found the interturns not that terrible if you switch off unit animations for friends/foes. There are plenty of messages popping up, that's what is really bad. The slowest part however, is the waiting time after your production cycle has ended.
Add the fact that during the actual turn, hardly anything goes on, it gets a bit draggy...

I think boosting my computer for CIV has helped a lot (I remember playing Aggie's monster map as a shadow game back in 2004. That game was really slow due to my old computer). For all the complaints and disappointments I have for CIV, it helped a lot to speed up C3C gameplay

 

[Northern Pike]

My situation exactly--I can only play this game, and even more the Greebley series of monster-map AW games, thanks to the computer I bought to establish that I don't like Civ IV.

 

[Wotan]

I took the morning off since a meeting was rescheduled. And managed to get to 6 turns into my turn set. Something happened that I think the team should discuss before moving on anyway. I got a Leader who is now in Sagres on the east coast. What to do with it? We have a Military Academy in Iron Tip but could build the HE with it in one of the former Portuguese towns if we dare challenge the flip gods? Or another Army?

No luck finding the portuguese Seetler on a Carrack. It is a bit like finding the needle in a haystack over it, vast oceans to search for it and no apparent place he would try for since there is no land available to settle.

Also, trading Electricity gave us a healthy bank account and Communism. I could start to really rush cavalry on the new continent, say 15-20 of them at roughly 308-316 gold a piece. Let towns build for one turn and then rush, or shortrush worker/cavalry immediately for a cost of 380 each. It is after all the shortage on Cavalry that limit our campaign on Spain. I can muster enough units for max 2 towns per turn and have to worry about the random Conquistador to disrupt railroad building Workers forcing me to keep unprotected workers at least 7 tiles from visible Spanish holdings not to lose any to those fast movers.

Situation map:

 

[klarius]

Why are we researching RP ? That's the one tech you sure can trade for easily.

Leader should build an army. The 200sh for HE are not worth wasting a leader, especially in a flip risky city (what's iron tip doing currently).

I still think that workers (and granaries to get more) are more important than cavs. We can irrigate everywhere with electricity and it doesn't look like there is much done.

We don't need a lot of land, but we need population. Land doesn't do research, population does.
May I remind everybody that our goal is not conquest, but space ship.

 

[ThERat]

wait, didn't I build the HE in Iron Tip during my turns...I am quite sure about that...oh maybe you swapped that built to Mil Academy...

I would rush that in Portuguese land, flip risks should be minimal. I wouldn't spend so much money on rushing units as the main goal is to get science farms and not huge land. We can slowly expand anyway...

edit: cross post with klarius, guess we all agree on science farms...btw what is our ToE prebuild doing? I mean, I thought we are going for sci methods...well a little confused as the report isn't really a report

 

[Wotan]

We have not started researching it yet. I forgot to add that question to the report, what tech should we go for next? Now see, there it is. So please calm down, I am frustrated about this game to a point when I might just feel I've had it. And yes I am aware of the fact we are going for Space and that ppl is the main obstacle facing us but we also need land to ICS for scientists and that is won though warfare. Or do we disagree on that? And the forces currently at our disposal are very few. But I am sure you are correct in telling me Workers and Granaries will get us the land so lets switch to it.

HOW THE H**L SHOULD WE HAVE MANAGED TO IRRIGATE EVERYWHERE WHEN WE JUST GOT ELECTRICITY??????????????????????

What miracles do you think me capable of, the turn we get Electricity we miraculously have irrigated lands all over our territory? I haven't even started using the Workers on our starting islands. And I did put a priority on getting our mainland connected through railroads for fast reaction to threats. So in you view I have probably wasted some Worker actions by railroading there this turn instead of irrigating.

I changed it to a MA in Iron Tip. And IT is currently building an Army.

EDIT: If you like me to I could post the save and you take it. I do not neccessarily need to allocate another 5 hours or so to finish my turn set. I can use those hours doing other things if you are unhappy with my performance. I am sure you would have managed to irrigate everything by nowe had you played.

 

[klarius]

I only see a screenshot saying we research RP and having captured a lot of flip risky cities.
I don't know how many workers we have, but see a lot of barracks and cav builds.
Sure the electricity and irrigate comment was a bit premature and I apologize for that (no need to shout).

We cannot ICS a lot, as we will run into the city limit, so the cities we have will need infrastructure (aqueducts everywhere not on fresh water) and grow. And even if ICS'ing one should prioritize this in the existing land, IMO, not put priority on capture more.

For our research, I thought we had a consensus to do scientific method and build the ToE, while we still are in GA as we cannot have a perfect pre-build and there probably (?) are still a lot of wonder builds around.

 

[Wotan]

I was a bit aggravated by the way this scenario plays, with the slow processing (at least on my PC 2.66MHz/2GB), so really blew the lid when you asked for things I sure had not done or could not have accomplished. I am sorry about that but please try not to argue thing that are not possible to have been accomplished.

And I have NOT captured any cities YOU did not agree on taking prior to my turn set. Unfortunately we have the issue of the Portuguese Settler to deal with so granted there is a risk but a miniscule one, most portuguese cities have a max 0.012% up to the most prone having 0.25%. I guess I consider that acceptable and yet another issue you seem to have made an unsubstantiated comment about:

Portuguese cities can be kept, as we assume Portugal is away within a few turns. But I wouldn't keep Spanish cities as they would be a flip risk for a long time.

Good point on the max city limit though. And I am of course on level with you regarding SM and ToE so will shift to that.

I have roughly 30 Workers and about 15-20 captured workers on the map. Could capture another 4 this turn. They are next to Leiria. Most of them can now be taken off the railbuilding task since we have established a network to include every town except the newly conquered ones.

On the topic of Spanish towns I would raze Murcia, Zaragosa, Seville and maybe Toledo. Keep the rest if we can take them all in two turns. No risk of flipping then.

 

[klarius]

Well, there's New Groningen, probably with a lot Dutch population (though it was Spanish lately). The flip risk is probably not very high, because it's far away from Netherlands, but it will stay so for a long time.
I don't know how the other cities look like, but I assume there is Spanish population also in Leiria.

But, Ok, it's not really many. The problem would be really coming now, with the old Spanish cities.

 

[Wotan]

New Groningen was a mistake, I must have thought; not Spanish, thus Portuguese? It has a max risk of 1% and maybe I should raze it and put a Settler there instead? I do not like the 1% risk, too high in my opinion. I have to open the save and see what citizens it hold, rush a Settler to lower the risk is the first step. I don't think it has any resisting citizens.

Leiria has a fliprisk, yes but it will go down quick siince I plan on taking out Zaragosa and Murcia next turn.

 

[klarius]

On the topic of Spanish towns I would raze Murcia, Zaragosa, Seville and maybe Toledo. Keep the rest if we can take them all in two turns. No risk of flipping then.

Well, we didn't get Portugal up to now.
What do we know about Spanish settlers sailing around (or walking somwhere on this big continent for 50 turns)?

For the ToE, we should probably rush the current army build in Iron Tip and start the BM pre-build. If RP is 9 turns, Sci meth should be doable in 6 or 7.

 

[Wotan]

I think I would gamble on Spain being gone after their towns are captured. A lot of value in all that pop from those big towns. If they are not gone we can raze them but obviously without gaining the Workers we would if immediately razing them.

Will check on optimal point to start the ToE to have it finish just as we finish researching something.

Got to go into a meeting in a few minutes. Will check in here prior to playing again.

 

[klarius]

Will check on optimal point to start the ToE to have it finish just as we finish researching something.

I think we should complete it right away. With the pre-build timed to Sci meth research, this should just mean 1 turn of not researching. By that we can continue to trade and not wait for another 6-9 turns research, before trading away sci meth.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I must say I was really impressed by the way this looked. We have got a good force going and did a well executed genocide, especially for a civ with both so little land and so much infra.

About the Portuguese settler: would it solve the problem to gift them a coastal city (say a newly founded dump town near our troops) so that the settler boat comes back home? It would cost a settler but cancel the flip risks, if this or the unhappy motherland blokes are an issue.

I'd like to say I will have time this week-end to give it a thorough look and a few turns, but that's wishful thinking. The next time in the foreseeable future I'll have both a couple of hours and a well-rested head to play this will probably be in a couple of weeks