SGOTM 13 - Spooks

[WackenOpenAir]

Hmm, that looks good indeed.

I played the first turn.

Looks like our island is a little larger than we thought.
I guess we can build 3 towns now. (the more the better since every extra town provides us extra food surplus, both for growth and max. population)

If noone objects or has better ideas, i will continue producing the warrior and settler while building roads on the cow, BG and central grassland tile as Paul suggested. I'll do so in a few hours.

 

[killercane]

Sounds good. Roading and warrior-settler-warrior-settler looks like the best way to go. Nice to see the start has changed a bit.

Do we add in the worker and if so, when?

 

[Abegweit]

Where is the third city to go? That thing to the NE is not tobacco. I haven't downloaded the save yet but, from the Maintenance thread, you can see quite clearly that it's some sort of water-tile. Wacken needs to get his resources updated, methinks.

I can't see any reason for a worker. Unless there is land further to the east, one should be enough.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

20 turns are done.

Settling towns
With the roads ready, the settler founded Osaka the turn it was produced.
Osaka is within moving distance from the next city site, so it can produce the next settler and again, we can settle turn it is produced. Osaka completes the warrior next turn and then has 7 turns to produce the settler using the cow and BG.

The worker obviously needs to complete the road to that spot before comming back to mine the BG.

Productions
We don't have much usefull to produce. We don't want to waste upkeep on barracks now.

We want 6 total warriors for MP and we could build a temple in Osaka and Kyoto so that we don't need the luxury slider (sizes 4-4-3). Of course, we don't want to build these much earlier than we need them as they cost upkeep.

We may also choose to build extra workers and join these into our cities to avoid having to grow our last citizen in each town at 1 fpt.

Osaka doesn't need the BG all 7 turns, the BG should be used by Kyoto when it grows to size 2. Some micro management should be used to prevent waste of food from the cow (7x3 = 21).

Unless we choose to produce those last 2 warriors in our third town, we don't have anything to produce there at all. If we choose to build warriors there, we could already start producing a worker maybe in Kyoto to prevent the 1fpt growth, but since it takes valuable citizens out of our cities, we should calculate first to see if it is actually worth it and how we should do it optimally. Best would be to make a planning for all 3 towns the next 30 turns.

It would also be nice to have curraghs prebuilt when alphabet is ready.

before joining in the worker, i think we should also work the plains and hill for when we want the productive tiles for curragh building.

 

[killercane]

Is the NE resource tobacco or SGOTM resource? In other words, can we found a 4th city on it?

How long til alphabet?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

It is an sgotm thing. Rocks or something. 1 extra shield in the water tile.

Alphabet is around 180 beakers to go, i expect 20 turns or so.

 

[Abegweit]

Ah, there's where the third town goes! I agree with the idea of building workers at size 6. They can be folded back into the cities once we have ducts and harbours.

I see from CAII that our science has just passed the 50-turn rate. I suppose Alpha should come in around 20-25 turns from now. All three cities should be building curraghs at that point.

Edit: According to CAII, we have 176 beakers to go on Alpha.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I wasn't talking about size 6.
We can be only size 4-4-3 until map making.

It will be about 20 turns till alphabet. Then maybe 50 more till map making. at siz 4-4-3, we should have 14 tiles used including the cities, with 4 of them providing only 1 commerce, we would have 24 commerce for about 21-22 after corruption. What is the cost of writing + map making ? (i don't think we will have a chance for philo)

So all we have to think about now is getting the maximum out of size 4-4-3 towns. As they use water tiles, their food surplus will decrease and the last citizen will take 20 turns to grow.
We could do this faster by having the city that uses the cow build some workers that we join to the other cities. But this comes with a cost as the worker building town would be smaller. Also, we have 2 towns that could do this, and both would like to build a temple. So this requires some good planning, we have those 20 turns till alpha (for building curraghs) to go for these plans.

for example, we could go for something in this direction:

Kyoto: Temple(?) worker, worker?
Osaka: warrior(1) settler(8) temple(?)
Town3: X(8) warrior(12) warrior(16) prebuild curragh

Town 3 can't do much else than building warriors as it doesn't have acces to the cow for building workers and it doesn't need a temple.
Note that we only have 4 tiles to use that provide 2 or more food. As soon as we have more than 4 citizens, we will need to assign them 1 food tiles.

edit once more: If we happen to find enough contacts with our curraghs, it could be interesting to research literature instead of mapmaking as it allows us to increase our research and use it to trade for map making and more (map making is a high priority for the AI, literature is not)

 

[Montalbano]

wow, you guys are crazy, when are you working?

OK, after reading your posts, i realized that you are ways ahead of me. So at the point iam on the turn, you have to teach me what to do. I thought iam comfortable at Emperor but you deity-guys are more than one level up.

In my decision i agree to the literatur-thing. We have an better standing for the needed tradings. Perhaps we find some we can trade with.

@Paul, Monti is good for me.

 

[Abegweit]

OK, after reading your posts, i realized that you are ways ahead of me. So at the point iam on the turn, you have to teach me what to do.

This is standard practice no matter whose turn it is. We agree on what to do before we do it. If you take a look at our last game, there were many pages of discussion before we started.

This game is unusual in that there wasn't really very much to say at the beginning. Alpha on max. Roads are more important than mines. Get the settler out ASAP. 'Nuff said. Wacken is more than good enough to take it from there.

At this point, we need some hard calculations in order to decide what to do next. The general approach is pretty clear but the precise order needs study. Ideally, all three curraghs should be leaving the slip on the turn we learn Alpha.

As for when we work... why now of course

 

[WackenOpenAir]

And i don't really work a lot no
I play poker

Don't worry, by the time this game is over, you will beat any deity map they throw at you

 

[Montalbano]

I hope so Wacken, thats why iam doing this.

The way is clear, we have to find as many AIs as possible, to go on the trading track. Give it something we should defnetly not trade for?

 

[Montalbano]

Another thing, you said CAII, do you mean CivReplay?

 

[Abegweit]

CivAssist II. Indispensible

 

[Paul#42]

I did some calculations on our optimum town sizes. The food is just enough to get all three to size 4.

Waste in Osaka (4%) and Tokyo(?) (9%) will not justify a size 5 Kyoto. We will lose one beaker to waste in Tokyo, the 6th (6*9% = 0.54 ==> 1)

Those sizes are ideal. I'm not sure if we will ever reach them because production with 4,3,3 is pathetic (still with mined hill and plains +4spt as reserve) . Whenever we want a town to do more, another would (have to) shrink.

In ideal size we'd make 25 bpt, that's Alphabet in 11 and Writing in 19 turns. Ideally. Realistic is ~19bpt
So we might stay at size 3 most of the time - or we let one grow to 4 and the others keep some food reserve... That would mean we should build a temple, while all towns at size 3 (or 4) rather make temples worthless.

I'll play my set now untill I come upon a tough decision.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

shell, are my resources wrong ?

What are you gonna build ?

 

[Paul#42]

Actually it's Oysters.

I stopped at turn 28.

Spoiler :

turn 20 3000 BC
Switch all governors to emphasize production. Kyoto works BG, Osaka cow.
F11: Moscow and Thebes at size 3.

IBT
Osaka [grows to 2] warrior -> settler.

turn 21 2950 BC
Osaka works BG, cow. Kyoto fish.
(Settler is prio 1, Kyoto shall grow and make commerce. Next warrior necessary in ~20 turns)

turn 22 2900 BC
Kyoto works cow. Osaka works BG, fish.
(So Kyoto choses rocks (1spt) on growth over fish)

IBT
Kyoto [2].

turn 23 2850 BC
Kyoto works fish, rocks. Osaka works mined BG, cow.
(5 turns to grow at 4spt won't do, Osaka needs 22 shields for the settler, so borrows the mined BG for 2 turns. Osaka won't get (for sure) a single shield on growth because we can't block the Oysters.)
Worker S.

IBT
Kyoto 5th warrior -> warrior.

turn 24 2800 BC
Kyoto works fish, rocks. Osaka works mined BG, cow.
worker roads grassland.

turn 25 2750 BC
Kyoto works fish, mined BG. Osaka works BG, cow.

turn 26 2710 BC
zzz

IBT
road complete.

turn 27 2670 BC
worker mines BG.
Kyoto works fish, mined BG. Osaka works Oysters, cow (BG on growth).
F11: Moscow at size 3.

IBT
Kyoto warrior #6 -> wealth
Osaka settler -> wealth

turn 28 2630 BC
Tokyo founded (guess where )
starts wealth.

I stop here to discuss the next buildings. Wealth might be not the worst. Maybe so long, that a worker is complete once the town is about to do +1fpt?

save is here

 

[Paul#42]

observations from the graphs
Klarius built a temple (edit: in turn 32).
Ivan founded his first (only) town on Tokyo spot.

production
Wealth is calculated from spt/4, right? Rounded up or down?
C3C still says +1gpt when Kyoto does 5spt - but is that accurate? 2nd coin for the 8th shield?
I guess some cash is best choice now, untill we build workers when growing to size 3.
Or do we need a temple?

KC, it's your turn.
(I'll take those two turns back one day... )

 

[killercane]

Well I will have a looksee in a bit. Probably we should build a temple in the size 4 city, if we dont have one yet.

 

[Paul#42]

Is a temple useful?
Upkeep is 1gpt and it makes one unhappy citizen content.
Same effect as one smiley through lux resource or lux tax.

The towns with size lower than 4 (Osake, Tokyo), that won't need happiness, will do 5-6 cpt.

If we run the lux slider at 10%, the first five commerce point are beakers (smileys are rounded down). The sixth will be the first smiley (we'd want to avoid in size-three-towns).
Maybe it's better to hire a scientist instead of getting the 6th commerce from a coastal tile?

Advantage of the temple: It allows 100% science at deficit research. So we can get our money elsewhere from trades or treasury. This allows more flexibility if we've got the money.

We are 8-10 (probably 9) turns from curraghs. Our capital needs 3 turns, so 6 turns to build something. Temple takes 6 turns...

The others should start right away their curragh prebuilds...