SGOTM 13 - tao

I'm getting ready to play, so if there are any last instructions, comments, strategies, etc, now is the time to post them. I have been a little busy, so sorry about the delay. Also, I have to admit my enthusiasm has waned as this looks more hopeless, but I will suck it up and continue.
 
I have finished my turn-set, and I'm sure it could've went better. I made peace with Egypt early on, but as later turns progressed, I should've made peace with the Dutch instead. Here is my turn-log:

Spoiler :

Pre-flight: CivAssist 2, Word running. Get the save loaded. Look things over.
I look around, no one will sell us Construction.

Non-Combat:
Workers 5
Military:
Warriors 10
Archers 2
Spears 1
Chariots 3
Catapults 3
Galleys 1

Hit enter=>

IBT: Portugal joins the dogpile on us.
Merlot worker=>worker.

Turn 1, 460 AD: Play a high risk game of “Let’s make a deal”. Make peace with Egypt for 30gpt and all our 53 gold. I then trade Wine to them for 31 gpt( slightly worse than break even). Red-line Dutch Spear and kill him with chariot, losing 2 hp.
Huzzah! Our first and maybe only military victory. Kick tech slider up to the dreaded 50% and we can get Construction in 19 turns at 5 gpt.

IBT: Trantor riots, I guess Egypt was the source of war happiness.
Merlot worker=>horseman.
Riesling Harbor=>Marketplace.

Turn 2, 470 AD: MM Bordeaux and Chardonnay to prevent riots there.
I guess I have a lot to learn about war happiness.
I check the diplomacy screen, we have new contacts: Rome, Russia and Celts. Apparently a bunch more could be bought if we had money.
Caesar is polite, I trade our WM for contact with Iroquois.
Brennus is annoyed, I trade our WM for contact with Carthage and 5 gold.
Hannibal is polite, but not willing to trade.
Hiawatha is annoyed, has nothing to trade.
Catherine is annoyed, has plenty to trade, won’t trade. Maybe next turn we’ll get more.

IBT: Dutch sign Romans into alliance against us.
Chardonnay Temple=>Marketplace.
Chablis Harbor=> Marketplace.


Turn 3, 480 AD: Ugh-Face, err I mean Temujin is annoyed, I trade our WM for contact with America.
Abe is annoyed, has nothing to trade.
Everyone contacted so far is up the 3 techs we can see.

IBT: Dutch enlist the Byzantines against us now. This is getting annoying and depressing.
Terminus Galley=>Galley.
Viognier Temple=>Harbor.

Turn 4, 490 AD: Korea and Babylon show up on Diplo screen.
Hammurabi is annoyed, not willing to trade.
Wang-Kon is cautious, will trade 1 gold for our WM, no deal.
Looking at the victory page, the Dutch are clearly running away from everyone else.
Spain is willing to give us peace for Burgundy….yeah, right.

IBT: Dutch enlist the Americans and Russians against us now. I’m starting to get :mad:
Trantor worker=>Galley.
Seldon Galley=>Galley.
Merlot Horseman=Wealth(1 turn)

Turn 5, 500 AD: The Zulu, Persia, Hittites and China appear on the Diplo screen, Should I even bother trotting out the maps?
Shaka, annoyed, same techs we can see, can’t trade maps.
X-Man, same thing.
Mursi, same thing.
Mao, cautious, same techs we can see, can’t trade maps. So much for contact trading this turn.
Suicide galley sets off to the south.

IBT: No Dutch alliances, but 2 trade embargoes. Russia brings India in. I am getting a bruised ego here! Declared on before we even meet.
Burgundy Temple=>Marketplace.
Suicide galley survives, now that it doesn’t matter.

Turn 6, 510 AD: Ottomans, India, Arabia and England appear this turn on Diplo.
Note that the Dutch are insanely wealthy, 7087 gold.
Osman, polite(!), same techs we can see, can’t trade maps.
Abu, same thing.
Elizabeth, annoyed.
We are in a money crunch, but once we get Construction, we can go back to a lower tech rate. Selling temples might become necessary as soon as expansion occurs.

IBT: No news is good news.
Merlot worker=>Marketplace.
Bordeaux Temple=>Marketplace.
Memphis of Egypt finishes JS Bachs.
Erdenet of Mongolia finishes Newtons.

Turn 7, 520 AD: Suicide galley finds light blue borders to south.

IBT: Russian galley appears.
Intrepid suicide galley sinks 1 turn from reaching safe waters.

Turn 8, 530 AD: MM for maximum cash to get Construction in 2 turns.

IBT: Russian caravel shows up in the south. I may not be able to prevent a landing.
Dutch enlist Carthage and Iroquois against us.
Russia enlists England. This is getting grim.

Turn 9, 540 AD: Good news is, we get Construction next turn. Bad news, more enemies every turn. I lose 1 galley against a Russian, galley which is unscathed.

IBT: No new alliances against this turn. We get Construction, I choose Feudalism next. We are now medieval, [party] Unfortunately, the Byzantines refuse to acknowledge our envoy, so no big picture trades are available:(
Viognier Harbor=>Marketplace
Riesling riots due to Russian galley screwing up the worked tiles.

Turn 10, 550 AD: Final round of MM’ing and shifting units to prevent landings.


The save is posted. Good luck to the next player.

Hand-off notes: Finished temples have resulted in culture expansions in several cities, which would allow them to be sold if necessary. The tech research probably should be set to Literature so we can get Libraries built. It's beginning to look like tech trading is going to be dfficult or impossible due to the many alliances and trade embargoes against us. We are in contact with most of the world now, and all but the Byzantines are ahead in tech. I hope I haven't screwed this up too bad.
 
All is still not lost. Now that we know many civs, hopefully we can do a couple of tech trades. It is most important to learn Literature and get Libraries built. That's the only way to speed our research


tao (up next - if feeling up to it)

ThinkTank
denyd
Furiey
greatbeyond
ignas
TheOverseer714 (just played)
 
Perhaps Tao has had a relapse (hope not) and can't play, if your out there ThinkTank, you could swap and get us going again. Denyd stated in post #157 that his machine wouldn't handle it anymore so unless something is changed Furiey would be on-deck.
I know I have been busy catching up on the other Xotm games but am now caught up, just working on Diety GOTM #77, going very well at this time :)
 
I'm not sure what else we can do but go for literature next to at least get some tech speed. I don't think we'll be able to self research out of this one though, but I don't see how we're going to do a Great Library steal either.

I dread to think how slow my PC is going to be over this, it was 20 mins/ibt last time, but I'll keep going as long as I can, so when I get to play it may take we a while to do so.

Hope tao is OK.
 
Got it. Will play on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Edit: looked at the save. Some questions.

1. I thought priority was aquaducts then markets, but we seem to be building markets first? I would suggest market first only if aquaduct would complete way before growth to 7.
2. If we go for literature and build libs, where would these fit in the build order? BTW, we can buy literature for only 13gpt from the Ottomans, this would lower the tech slider to get the gpt and Feudalism would go from 14 turns to 18 turns.
3. How about temples on our original island?
4. How about also covering the original island with units against landings (need 1 more unit for that)?
5. On our main island, we need 4 more units to completely block the island from landings. That's another 8gpt. Do it? Maybe some more catapults, for harrassing the foreign ships?
 
I think we can sell the temples after the first cultural expansion. Market builds can be changed to aqueducts, must've missed that. Catapults are fine for landing prevention, and might indeed be handy for pinging enemy ships. Temples should be built on our starting island, then sold after cultural expansion. If you can buy Literature, do it. Looks like you have things well in hand, Thinktank.
 
Hi Everybody!

After some additional troubles, I am now back ready to participate again. I am ready to have an in-depth look at the discussion I missed and at the save.

Then I will play either later today or tomorrow, if this is fine with you.

Good to be back!

Regards

tao
 
I looked at the save and the first civs are already in Industrial Times. IMHO it is wrong to research ourselves. We should concentrate on cash and buying techs - hopefully doing some trades now and then.

And obviously, it is not a good idea to accumulate cash, since this will only lead to extortion.

Thus we need neither literature nor libraries. I am not yet sure on the markets vs. aqueducts issue. How will we keep our citizens happy? We don't have many high-food tiles allowing for clowns.

Soon we will face frigates bombarding our shores - not a good prospect. Make peace where possible IMHO.

Do we have a list when the various civs declared war on us? This would be helpful for seeing which war still generates war happiness.

Embassies are terribly expensive.

It does not look easy ...... :crazyeye:
 
Try to buy techs but the main problem is that the dogpile is growing to the point where everyone is against us and have no incentive to make peace. The literature/library decision hasn't been made yet, but if you think you can buy our tech, go right ahead. The big problem is our income level is kind of poor. It will improve when the Egypt peace deal ends, but that's still ten turns away. Steep hills can be conquered one step at a time, and I'm still willing to try.
 
I played 5 turns and I have no clue whatsoever, how we will win this game, despite having got monotheism, engineering, literature, and monarchy. :confused:

0: buy 2g, contact to Sumeria (as they are scientific) for 3gpt, sell contact for 79g.
trade for Maya, Inca, Aztecs contacs, some more cash
buy engineering for 64gpt, 70g
trade for monotheism, literature, monarchy

Portugal gives peace, alliance vs. Dutch, 20g for engineering

IBT: persia war on Portugal

1: loose 1 horse in killing 2 Spanish knights, chariot elitizes; change Voignier to sword as we need more power
Byzantines give peace for currency, hbr
some minor trades

IBT: China, Spain war on Portugal
Dutch alliance with Celts and Germans vs. us

2: Arabs give gems, tm for wines, 4gpt

IBT: Babylon, Celts, Korea, Zulu, Arabia war on Portuguese

3: (as before) shuffle units to prevent Spanish landings
hurry temple in Chablis to get access to whales

IBT: Dutch, Ottomans, Sumeria war on us

4: shuffle

5: shuffle

to be continued tomorrow, as the turns take very long on my computer :(
 
Nice work on the techs - Having a world war might be the only thing that can stop the Dutch at this point

If we've met the Vikings, we should do whatever we can to get them on our side. Having to face Berserks, might finish us off.

We in all of the SGOTM's I've played, I don't have a Wooden Spoon (yet), so just keep on plugging along.
 
Tao, your results are proof it is not time to give up yet. So far so good. One of the biggest advantages we have is we can use amphibious denial against everyone but the Vikings. If they are gone it is nothing but good news. This allows us to build alliances and make trades for techs we don't have and not worry about any damage to our infrastructure or territory. I will say again I think Literature and Libraries are a must. We will get the Techs at this stage as there is lots of conflict. When things get sorted out and the strongest Civs are well established, they will no longer trade Techs, neither for love nor money.
 
I asked AlanH what the tenative deadline for this game was as I couldn't find it anywhere and the WSGOTM6 which started at about the same time is due to finish in about 2 weeks.
This was AlanH's reply:

I think you posted it in the Civ4 Warlords SGOTM 6 thread?

This game looks like it will run and run. If any teams can project their finish dates, maybe they can PM me so that I can set a realistic target.
Click to expand...
 
IBT: Iroquois war on Portguese; Mongols sign embargoes aganst us

6: note: Portugal has 11 cities
buy Korean tm for wm, 3gpt
trade tms with Arabs
Persia gives tm, 24g for wm

IBT Korea signs embargoes against us

7: Merlot market, starts sword
embassy with Byzantines, rop

IBT Dutch and Maya war on us, Maya war on Portuguese
annoyed Egypt wants tm, 19g - we comply
Portugal wants alliance vs Korea - we sign rop instead -> gracious

8: shuffle

IBT Carthage ar on Portuguese

9: trade tms with our friends

10: bombard Spanish galley; sink it with our galley while promoting

Notes:
Spanish ships come from the west
American ships come from the south-southwest
Carthaginian ships come from the east

I hoped for Byzantines to learn feudalism, allowing us to trade for it. No luck yet.
There is a constant shuffle of troops to bring the catapults close to enemy ships and to cover all probable landing tiles. This gets more difficult, as more enemy ships arrive. We need at last 2 more units (if we use workers currently working in tandem), otherwise we need 4 more units.

IMHO we should continue buying techs in the Middle Ages. Aqueducts next, after markets.

Egyptian trade expires next turn.

Landing enemy units might be fatal.

Shuffling for this turn not yet done.

Good luck!
 
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