SGOTM 13 - tao

[ThinkTank]

I also hope from deynd's post that my PC will handle the save, I suppose I'll just have to find something else to do in the IBT.

It wasn't' too bad in my set, something like half a minute or so, on my laptop (2GHz, 2GB).

Whoever is going to play, please note that Trantor is set up for the palace jump, it will settler abandon in 4 turns. In order for the palace to jump to Merlot, take care to fill Merlot with sufficient units then; CivAssist will tell you how many you need.

 

[Furiey]

OK, I may have to play some turns tonight and more at the weekend. Looking at Civ Assist, Merlot has enough units to jump the palace there already, but that may change as other cities grow so I'll take the extra Warriors in Trantor and Terminus over which should be enough for safety's sake. It doesn't look like we'll get much in the way of benefit immediately though, so I'll have to watch the bank balance so we don't lose units. That would be embarrassing - messing up the palace jump because some units were disbanded due to insufficient funds!

 

[denyd]

Check out the SGOTM main forum. AlanH needs to modify the saves to allow workers to to clear wet-lands (I haven't seen any of those yet )

 

[Furiey]

Good News and bad.

Our Palace is in Merlot (1 turn later that expected), we have 2 new towns, have blocked a Dutch settlement attempt, are making 7gpt, but are at war with the Egyptians. They demanded all our gold in the last IBT (approx 20 mins long) and possibly foolishly I said no. The Vikings have already been wiped out.

Dutch have built Leonado's, Celts have built Sistine Chapel and we are still many turns from Republic. We have 47 gold and no one will trade anything for that, I haven't tried adding gpt this turn. We cannot increase our research even pumping all our gold in, we need libraries.

I've uploaded the save but still have to type in the log which I will do tomorrow.

The Save

Feel free to change builds, particularly the spear which is really just a placeholder as I could not decide what to build. There are 2 unused workers (workers got split up blocking the Dutch) by Burgandy. The Settler is for the last town on the Wine island.

greatbeyond (up next)
ignas
tao
TheOverseer714
ThinkTank
denyd
Furiey (just played)

I managed to find stuff to do in the IBT, but at 15-20 mins already I may well eventually find myself in the same position as deynd.

 

[Furiey]

I've just PMd AlanH to fix the save.

No harm in looking at it now I suppose, but don't play until we get the all clear.

No wetlands in sight still though...

 

[denyd]

With the Vikings gone, we might consider the block every coastal tile strategy (that is being used by SABER in the MTDG 2) to protect ourselves. Trying to stop Knights at this point would be fatal.

 

[AlanH]

Hi Alan,

Just uploaded the save so now's probably a good time to fix it.

Furiey

Thanks

I've uploaded the fixed file. Please make sure that no one tries to play the old file.

 

[Furiey]

I've corrected the link in my post above to point to the fixed file tao_SG013_AD0250_02.SAV

If you have the 01 version of the file do not play it, make sure you have the 02 version to play.

Thanks Alan.

 

[greatbeyond]

Does anyone have strategies to deal with the Egyptian threat. I wonder again if we should save some money, establish an embassy and buy an alliance?

I have had great success in in other games, staving off the inevitable, blocking an invasion by occupying all the coastal squares.

I see while writing this that AlanH has uploaded the fixed file. I will grab it but I don't think I'll do any playing until Saturday night or Sunday.

Late Friday nights in Bedfordshire are probably perfect for playing Civ

 

[Furiey]

Back on the game, as you say deynd, fighting knights would be hopeless, I suppose I should have given them our gold, but was really hoping to get a tech with it. We'll need quite a lot more units than we have to do that though, but now we have both luxes connected at least we don't need to keep so many warriors in towns for a bit. Can we build Embassies yet for alliances? we have 47 gold, +7gpt but are running on a lone scientist so can't cut back to save more quickly.

 

[greatbeyond]

I am assuming Furiey that you are GMT, is all of England the same?

Do you have a turn log, anything notable happen? Have we met any other Civs and do we still have our mighty Curragh? Perhaps if we meet a Civ we can trade techs with, we should build an embassy with them and then trade the tech for a MA against the Egyptians. I have found at this level it is better to have several allies to occupy our enemies time.

 

[Furiey]

Yep, all the UK is on GMT, at least during the winter, in the summer we go to daylight saving (British Summer Time - BST) which is 1 hour ahead of GMT. GMT remains the same thoughout the year.

Sorry, I will post the turn log tomorrow morning, I've got to type it up from my handwriting as the PC would not let me have anything open to type it as I went. I mentioned the key points in my post above, the only added thing I didn't mention specifically was that we met the Dutch (they have the same techs as everyone else), but I did mention it in passing as I said I stopped them settling. The Curragh is still going strong.

 

[greatbeyond]

Looking at the Graphs, it seems as though Team Klarius has gained more territory starting at around 250AD. They seemed to have doubled the size of their empire by 700AD or so. After that they double again in another 250 years. Is there a lot of vacant land yet to be discovered? Their culture is through the roof!

 

[Furiey]

50 AD (Turn 0): I'm not convinced that the Warriors from Trantor & Terminus will get there in time, so start moving Warriors in to Merlot from other Wineland cities.

IBT: took 15-20 mins...

70 AD (Turn 1): Put 1 Settler on the island to help with Palace jump to Merlot, could have done this last turn but didn't think of it then.

IBT: get and eat some cheese & biscuits.

90 AD (Turn 2): Found Chablis on island, start Harbour (now +1gpt); more Warrior shuffling.

IBT: Get and drink a cup of coffee; Reisling: Temple>Warrior.

110 AD (Turn 3): Drop of 2nd Settler and spot Dutch Galley (NE of the N whale in the S. They have the same techs as the rest (& the Great Lighthouse); Merlot has 6 Warriors.

IBT: I find more things to do; Merlot: Granary>Settler; Dutch land a Spear/Settler pair on our incense & start the Knights Templar and Sistine Chapel;

130 AD (Turn 4): Trantor did not build a Settler! It's sitting with zero growth now and full shield box so I hope I get the choice next turn; Found Burgandy near the Incense (now +3gpt); block Dutch from moving to a tile they can Settler with Workers.

IBT: Trantor: Settler>disband - start to hold breath to see where the palace goes but it takes too long; Voigner: Worker >Worker.

150 AD (Turn 5): Merlot is our Capitol! The Dutch have disbanded the Settler leaving the Spear, some Worker moves wasted but no foreign city; redistribute Warriors; refound Trantor s Harbour.

IBT: Terminus: Galley>Spear.

170 AD (Turn 6): Warriors now back home.

IBT: The Vikings are destroyed! Spanish start Leonado's

190 AD (Turn 7): MM

IBT: Seldon: Spear>Harbour; Riesling: Warrior>Harbour and expands.

210 AD (Turn 8): Swap 1 scientist to Bordeaux now Riesling can grow (another town that can't grow would be better but they are all still size 1).

IBT: Dutch Complete Leonado's, Spanish change to Knights Templar.

230 AD (Turn 9): check trades, no one will sell us anything for our gold yet.

IBT: Egyptians demand all our gold, I refuse, they declare. Egyptians start Copernicus, Celts build Sistine, Merlot: Settler>Barracks.

250 AD Move Settler towards city site.

Sorry about the declaration, probably should have paid up.

 

[ThinkTank]

Sorry about the declaration, probably should have paid up.

Maybe, maybe not, we sure need money.

Does anyone have strategies to deal with the Egyptian threat. I wonder again if we should save some money, establish an embassy and buy an alliance?

We surely should save money for diplomacy and trades. But as Furiey indicates we are already running lone scientist; that we only have an income of 7gpt is due to the fact that we have outstanding deals in which we paid gpt for techs.

I also think an ally against the Egyptinans is mandatory. We need money for that. And for other phoney wars.

Furthermore I think we have to think about getting of our two islands before we get astronomy/navigation, since that will be too late, because looking at the wonder builds, by the time we have astro, the AIs will be in the middle or end of the IA. What I am thinking about is the trick from the hydrophobic SGOTM: build a force of archers, give away two towns, immediately recapture them, and then demand a town on another island in the peace treaty. No boats needed.

Actually I think we should stop playing now until we have a plan that gives us at least a chance of winning this game. I feel right now we are sort of taking it from turnset to turnset but basically lack any major strategy.

I can look at the save tonight.

 

[greatbeyond]

My TS is complete

Some general thoughts
We can choose to make peace with Egypt for a lot of Gold which still leaves us at war with Spain, or we can sign an alliance with Portugal against Egypt for a lot of Gold.
We will have to be careful to make sure we have enough units to block all the coastal tiles.
In regards to settling for peace by giving away a city,or gifting a city to then declare war and get a city on another continent - We had better pick an AI that doesn't have Musketmen yet, or we'll be in trouble. Right now with the units we have, I don't know if we can kill a Pikeman.

Here's the save:

Spoiler :

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm13/tao_SG013_AD0350_01.SAV

Here is my turn log. No problems yet with IBT times, 15 - 20 Seconds

Spoiler :

Turn 0 - 250AD - minor production changes, switch some cities to Temple to get expansion to pick up whales, oysters,etc. Send Galleys out to sea to scout

Turn 1 - 260AD - Lose our southernmost galley

Turn 2 - 270AD - Found Cabernet Sauvignon, Galley following Sea squares to the NW finds nothing

Turn 3 - 280AD - IBT the Spanish join the Egyptians in a MA against us. Lose NW Galley. Spend 55 gold to establish an Embassy with the Portuguese. They will give us ROP for 16G and 3G P/T, they don't say a MA against the Egyptians is impossible but they don't see how a deal can be worked out at this time.. They will not sign against the Spanish.

Turn 4 - 290AD - We lose our last galley which was headed to explore the SE. An Egyptian galley has shown up near our curragh.

Turn 5 - 300AD - nothing

Turn 6 - 310AD - nothing

Turn 7 - 320AD - Egyptians now have Caravels

Turn 8 - 330AD - IBT our valiant Curragh is destroyed by an Egyptian Caravel, but not before taking it down to 1 health. Egypt will give us peace for the bargain some of 78G and 27G p/t. An Egyptian Caravel has shown up just off the NW coast of Wineland. I have moved our units to block the coastal squares.

Turn 9 - 340AD - a 2nd Egyptian Caravel has joined the first. It is going to be close if we can deny them a landing zone. The Egyptian's again offer us a Peace Treaty.. for 110G and 25G p/t. The Portuguese will sign a MA against Egypt for 110G and 28G p/t

Turn 10 - 350AD -

 

[TheOverseer714]

It looks like we're going to dance with King Kong for awhile. As far as plans go to try and win this, we definitely need one. This looks to be a seriously uphill climb. I feel I'm out of my depth here, but I'm stubborn enough to hang in there. We should try some out of the box strategies to try to win this. It will be risky, but if we don't try something, we lose anyway. Seeing that hyperbolic curve that team Klarius has is pretty depressing. However, it does mean it is possible.

 

[greatbeyond]

ignas (up next)
tao
TheOverseer714
ThinkTank
denyd
Furiey
greatbeyond (just played)

We have along way to go in this game so we might as well start playing again.

I think we should hire the Portugese as our allies or save a little more money and hire the Dutch as they are the most advanced. This will still leave us at war with Spain but perhaps they will talk once we have allies.
I also think we should contemplate a Great Library steal (in the future) to bring us up to date, if we don't find some other Civs we can trade with. We should build a few more galleys and hope we get lucky, other than that, we probably don't need any more units than necessary for amphibious denial.
We need to get The Republic finished ASAP as it still has some trade value. This means more population for more research Gold.
As for infrastructure, perhaps focusing on wealth building is our best course.

 

[ignas]

no time, so skip me.

tao is up

OK, it's time to stop and discuss our options. We are in crappy situation that's for sure. Probably it is better don't do immeadiate deals: alliance with Portugese won't save us, also peace with Egypt won't save us too as we will be still at war vs Spain. Wait few turns, maybe peace will get cheaper or civs on that continent go to war, but if situation is critical like enemy units in our territory make peace. Of course block land tiles from enemy landing.

Don't assign specialists, use lux slider, growth is very important.. Wealth is not the best course: we need at least two granaries for producing workers to develop land and join them to towns; we need harbors for working high commerce coastal tiles; we need temples for expansions. I can't acces my pc where civ is installed, so can anyone post a screenshot and tell what's our tech situation, trade options, military, buildings etc? Any ideas? As ThinkTank wrote we need to stop and discuss now or the game will be lost if it's already isn't

 

[TheOverseer714]

I agree with using the lux slider for now for growth as we need the population base to get specialists later on. Our tech rate is not getting us much anyway, so we might go lone scientist and start buying techs. That is contingent on affordability. We need to do something to get out of the pit we are in. What can we do to get going?