SGOTM 13 - TNT thread

[Keath]

Good point about the settling priority and the possibility of the AI taking our precious metal. I daubt if they are so close to us and so pressed for space so to try naval movement and settling, but better be safe than be sorry.

Also sounds good to settle the marble (at place where we agree on and then to move the galley to pick up the next settler.

Settling on top of the copper is ok if we want to use it early when it does make serious difference, but at this hammer- poor map - is it a good idea to waste a 5 hammer mine?

Yes, we can wait for iron working. Good catch! It's more important to get that site and a work boat for growth.

How many cities can we build before our economy falls to intolerable levels? It would be nice to get the settlement done even if we have to hold back on research. Alphabet and exploration for meeting AI and trading would be timely...

 

[dima42]

my feeling:

next city should either go on top of marble and build library first (with chopping the forest and one-pop whipping timed right), or next to the copper and work the fish.

the fourth city should do the other of these two options.

couple notes: we should give clams to ragnar, since we have an extra. also, we should open borders for the better trade routes. both of these things can be done as the first action in the next set, unless anyone objects.


the following is rough -- i haven't done any math and only very briefly looked at the save. i'm sure i made a lot of mistakes; i might get to look at this in more detail in about 24 hours.

builds for elba: 3-pop whip settler (after building organically for one turn -- never whip without building for a turn first due to penalty), finish workboat, library, settler
builds for orleans: finish granary, galley (2-pop whip), warrior, barracks (maybe barracks->warrior depending on what the happiness cap is)
build for marble city: library (ferry worker over when it's time to chop the forest)
build for copper city: lighthouse (with whip), granary (also with whip)

ok, disagree away =)

 

[justjohn]

next city should either go on top of marble and build library first (with chopping the forest and one-pop whipping timed right), or next to the copper and work the fish.

Since the Galley and Settler are placed where they are, I think Marble city first. The WB could first explore the coastal tiles reachable by a city 1SW of the marble. Unless the WB sees anything, the city goes on top of the marble. I notice Elba has already built 1 (or more) turns on the Settler, and hence can whip the Settler already this turn (or next if we prefer). Therefore the Galley should just let the first Settler of on the marble, and then return to pick up the second Settler and head for the Copper city. At least that is what I think.

After thinking some more (!), I'm not sure the WB has time to explore the southern tiles if we want to improve the fish as soon as the copper city is founded. Unless I counted wrong. Can anyone confirm?

couple notes: we should give clams to ragnar, since we have an extra. also, we should open borders for the better trade routes. both of these things can be done as the first action in the next set, unless anyone objects.

Agreed, except I don't think we will get the better trade routes since we havn't discovered where they are.

the following is rough -- i haven't done any math and only very briefly looked at the save. i'm sure i made a lot of mistakes; i might get to look at this in more detail in about 24 hours.

builds for elba: 3-pop whip settler (after building organically for one turn -- never whip without building for a turn first due to penalty), finish workboat, library, settler
builds for orleans: finish granary, galley (2-pop whip), warrior, barracks (maybe barracks->warrior depending on what the happiness cap is)
build for marble city: library (ferry worker over when it's time to chop the forest)
build for copper city: lighthouse (with whip), granary (also with whip)

ok, disagree away =)

I don't have time to check the "math" right now, but I agree with the general plan, except we might need more work boats too. (I originally thought that the WB that we now have, should have gone eastwards.) The Worker could be picked up when the Galley returns after shipping the second Settler to the Copper city.

-jj-

 

[Keath]

Guys, I have made a brutal and unforgivable misclick. Here is the message I sent AlanH and his reply:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keath
Hello Alan,

I have done what I and you have warned everybody about while looking at the "Real Game" save, my trackpad inadvertently clicked on Hurry Galley. It was set there by the last player as a place holder while we work on a queued settler and work boat.

What do I do now? I haven't learned anything about the game, except what a klutz I am and how trackpads are a lousy replacement for a mouse. So, I'll leave my and our team's fate in your hands.

In cases like this should I post my calamity for the team or wait for your decision?

Thanks,
Keath
Oh dear! There's no going back in xOTMs. I'm afraid you'll have to continue forwards from the misclick, and deal with any problems it creates.

__________________
So this means the galley consumed three pop and our chance to rush a settler has vanished for the time being. I am really sorry about this.

About the only thing we can do is send the galley/settler directly to the copper site and rebuild our pop as we build a work boat, postponing the marble settler. Damn!

 

[2metraninja]

As I understand it, it is not exactly the "official" save, as you were not the official current turn-set player and you did not downloaded it from the official page. You will not have to submit the save you have anyway.

I think you made a mistake when asking Alan this way without explaining the exact situation, as by heart it was not an intended deed, nothing special happened and it is not going to have any impact on the game anyway and it will not be the save we will submit at the end.

I understand that anyone can download the save, play the game till 1000AD revealing almost everything and then just go back to the original save and no one will never know and I understand how wrong this is and against the whole idea of fair competition between teams of honest players and gentlemen, but this is just not the same, it is not even close - it is even the opposite.

I am thinking about interesting possible casus - 2 people download the save from my post, one of them - (say you) misclick at the whip button of our galley and the second guy (no matter who) accidentally misclicks on the whip button while playing with the production times and there is something else in the production queue - say a worker in the same second on the other side of the world - then what? How this case is going to be proceeded if they two report to the admins? Which save is the legitimate? From which one we must proceed? Should we split the team to 2 new teams and any of the teams play from "their" save? No. Nothing wrong happened here, spoiling the fairness of the game. You actually did not got any info from this, and nothing which cannot be repeated (like RNG for a battle) happened. Nothing at all.

And what if I am proceeded with my legitimate turn-set playing in the meantime and I am on the next turn already, whipped a settler for 3 pop? Which save is the legitimate one now?

I think we must plead for reinvestigation of our case. And not that something so tragic happened with this whip - we can live with it and still have fun with the game, but it for me will not feel right. Dura lex, sed lex, but I believe the laws are from people for people.

My understanding is that you are not the legitimate turnplayer, also no revealing of spoiling information happened so we must just continue from my legitimate save. I think this must be our position.

 

[dima42]

There's pretty clear precedent here. In the past, a player who wasn't up even accidentally gave away a city to the AI! So I think we're playing from the galley save. Keath, I hope you've uploaded it.

 

[dima42]

I think marble site is still a priority here, but this is now up for debate. But re:build for Elba, I guess put overflow from the whip into the settler, then finish workboat, then build library while growing, then whip settler.

 

[Keath]

^^ 2metra, I've sent a pm to AlanH directing his attention to your post. You make some good points and I should have been clearer in my explanation about whose turn it is, etc.
Edit: cross post with dima.

dima, Your explanation and AlanH's is clear. I goofed and feel horrible about it. It's a lousy way to get a galley for exploration and the settler pop rush was a natural.

Now which city is the priority -- the marble or the copper? The queued settler and the work boat both have hammers towards their builds and the work boat is two turns away from losing hammers. Maybe there's a way of getting the settler out quickly for the copper, meanwhile send our expensive galley to protect the site and then head east for exploration.

 

[Keath]

We have been given a reprieve! I was not playing the turnset so we can play from the save!! Thank you, thank you....

So 2metra, you can go with our original plan, settler to the marble and 3 pop the new settler. We are back on track!

 

[AlanH]

To make it clear - I am allowing this *only* because Keath didn't learn anything from the accident and he wasn't the active player. Please be aware that it is a concession, and don't expect to be allowed to do this again.

I repeat my previous warnings. Non-players really are playing with fire if they download the save and click around on it. Please don't do it if you can possibly get the information you want using other methods - eg. ask the current player or get screenshots.

BTW. This event *will* be recorded in your saves. You *can't* ".... play the game till 1000AD revealing almost everything and then just go back to the original save and no one will never know."

 

[Keath]

Thank you, Alan, for clarifying that and for giving us this one chance. I hate trackpads and have an idea how to avoid them, like changing the battery in my mouse and using an attached keyboard to allow the ***pause*** feature that doesn't seem to function on my MacBook Pro.

 

[2metraninja]

The team can thank me for my advocates skills and we can all thanks to Alan for his adjudge and not because it favors us, but because it pursue justice rather than punishment.

I guess in the future we must limit save uploading and downloading.

I continue the turn-set and will upload the save when done - I kept it already too long.

 

[2metraninja]

So, here is the save I submitted. Will come back with more detailed report, but for now the most intriguing highlights:

* Found Ragnar SW to us at about 15-20 tiles from Elba. As I guessed Nidaros is guarded by only 2 archers. Started to regret that I did not settled direct on the copper. For the price of 200 hammers we could had a second capitol site and Ragnar would be crippled for good.

 

[Keath]

The team can thank me for my advocates skills and we can all thanks to Alan for his adjudge and not because it favors us, but because it pursue justice rather than punishment.

I guess in the future we must limit save uploading and downloading.

Yes, 2metra, you made some good points and AlanH has given us a 'break'. He didn't have to but as you say, I agree this is fair. Nice going!

I have had a 'careful' look. Way to go, 2metra, it looks good!

So we have found Ragnar's capitol and explored some nice potential city sites. There is gold to the west! The 12 tile island south west towards Ragnar looks like it's loaded - spices, dyes, rice and fish offshore. It will be a race to gain the good spots there with Ragnar close by. It would be nice to explore the 8 tile island to our east.


***ROSTER

The Dude Esq (up)
justjohn (on deck)
bjartur
dima42
enKage
keath
Windfury
fizbankovi
2metraninja (just played)

cottage chris - not checked in....

 

[2metraninja]

I did not noticed the exact numbers, but I think we can build some good quantity of cities before it even affects strong on our research capabilities. I would say we to rex like crazy now when we missed the chance for an super-early axe rush and taking AI cities. I say we to build cities on prime locations, claiming the best land for ourselves and the back fill the not-so appealing sites.

As a side note, I can advice we all to take and play the current BOTM - it is Deity level with Ragnar, but still on archipelago map, so a lot of the future dynamics of the game can be seen and practiced there.

 

[justjohn]

***ROSTER

The Dude Esq (up)
justjohn (on deck)
bjartur
dima42
enKage
keath
Windfury
fizbankovi
2metraninja (just played)

My RL schedule is very uncertain these days, so I have to ask for a postion further down the list, maybe swap with dima if that is OK with him.

-jj-

 

[dima42]

Yeah, I'm ok with the swap.

 

[fizbankovi]

way to go guys... im keeping up with the forum.. just haveing some improtant projects in RL.
definitly count me in for the next turnset, im already getting back into the game...

also, if u guys want to c some nice playtroughts on youtube, make sure to chek out themeinteam, and absolutzero there.

 

[Keath]

Yeah, I'm ok with the swap.

***ROSTER UPDATE***

The Dude Esq (up)
dima42 (now on deck)
bjartur
justjohn (switched with dima)
enKage
keath
Windfury
fizbankovi
2metraninja (just played)

cottage chris - not checked in....

 

[Keath]

I think we need the team to decide about our future city placements. If someone has some dot map skills, it would be good to plan out a map for The Dude to consider. We have four cities now. it would be good to scout the gold to the west and we must check out the still fogged long narrow island to the east, just past the pigs.

The marked city site with rice, spices and fish IF we can grab it before Ragnar. Settling just west of the rice gets a nice chunk of the resources and leaves a spot marked on the screenshot for a second city for the dyes. We also could explore past Nidaros and around the two dye island north of Nidaros.

I'd imagine Ragnar has some nice lands to the west, or he would've already grabbed the rice and fish island. He'll make a nice target soon.

There's also the fur island for some extra happy and crab for health, the pig site, too. So, five cities without looking too hard for nine total or are we getting too much, too fast?