SGOTM 14 - Elite

[CommandoBob]

Our World 450 AD

This map is a bit outdated. It does not show our Babylonian advances or any fog busting from embassies. It is from the start of the turnset.

However, except for those on the mainland with us (since we know them too well), it does show where everyone else is placed on the map. In turn, this should help us to plan.

 

[Kulko]

OK finish the Babs and Zulus (after gifting). Then who? I'd think going towards the Mongols may mean a few others taken out along the way.
If Rodent doesn't call a pick up I'll play tomorrow.
Roster
CommandoBob - just played
Rodent - ?
socralynnek - out till Feb 8th
Whomp - up or on deck
Paperbeetle - on deck or in the hole
Kulko -

Rodents has gone missing in his own succession game (Rod02), so I think we can just say you are up Whomp.

 

[Whomp]

OK I got it. I'll stop after the island is under control. Let's talk about which island is next. My inclination is to take the Americans first and then Celts. Ship chaining should be much easier and gives us the option of continuing west or heading south. I'm not too fussed with the gallic swords if we have musket cover.

Upon further review, we're already at war with the French so that might make more sense.

 

[CommandoBob]

France didn't have muskets at the start of my turns and I doubt that they have any now. Even after they declared war, I kept hoping that they would put a settler pair on the mainland, but that never happened. Their galleys move around a bunch, but like most AI movement, it seems rather pointless.

If the next big goal is to claim Leonardo's Workshop, we can go East or West. If East, we have to deal with France (war), the Iroquois (war) and finally face the Mongols. If West, we only face Celts/America (and we could bypass them for a while) and we can ally (maybe) Greece and Egypt (when we make peace) into a war on the Mongols. Mongols are just fighting us. We need to return the dogpile.

 

[Whomp]

Well I returned the dogpile by bringing in all their neighbors. Greece, Germany and Mayans are all allied against the Mongols. The Mongols have brought in a number of minor civilizations against them. We're at turn 3 and I stopped since our island is clear of Zulus (Prison City 5) and Babylonians (island city and peace). We also got 2 MGLs so having 2 new cav armies will be nice.

The question is where do we go next? The French and Iroquois will talk if we want. We've got considerable shipping assets on the west but we have 4 carracks to the east and I can bring around more if necessary since I've been ship chaining south.

The other option is to do both Celts and French. With four transportable armies I think we could send the cav armies east with the slow movers and the Crusader and Knight armies west with the fast movers.

I can't do this tomorrow but will finish my set on Thursday night.

 

[CommandoBob]

Iroqouis
We have Allegheny on the mainland, nice and pillaged, so we have no real need to make peace with Hiawatha between now and the end of the game.

War, but not right away.

France
My first thought is make peace, give France a city and then attack in 20 turns. However, by that time France will probably have Musketeers, which defends with a strength of 5. Not good at all, in addition to the risk of triggering their Golden Age. So I think we should take out France now and reduce it to only one city and make peace. Then we have 20 turns to decide if we want to move them or not.

War, and rather soon.

Celts
Gift the Celts a city and then take 'em down, razing everything. Spam Celtland with prison cities and give them away, as needed.

Peace for now, but war is coming, though France comes first.

America
The Yanks have less than 10 turns left on their multi-city empire. Two cities over there and two more on the mainland. I don't like where two mainland cities are located; they seem rather close to our core and without an ROP we have to go around them. I would favor gifting them a city in France or a small coastal city on the mainland. Then we can raze/replace on their island with our current units already in place and add settlers into the newly reacquired mainland cities.

Peace for now, with war is in the near future, but no big hurry.

After That
Once we get enough wars started, AI research will slow to a crawl, leaving us as the tech leaders and one of the few with Cavalry. Both Magellan's Voyage (Antioch of Persia and Kazan of Mongolia) and Leonardo's Workshop (Ta-tu of Mongolia) are tempting prizes with nice rewards for this map. Cheap unit upgrades and more sea movement. The Great Lighthouse, in Pasaragadae of Persia, would be a nice consulation wonder if our warfare stops the building of Magellan's, since it has the same affect for us (extra sea movement). And if we never learn Magnetism we will keep it alive for our own use.

(To investigate Antioch cost 162 gold in 500 AD; Pasargadae only 144.)

Right now, I think this is a bit far in the future for us to plan. Debate, yes, of course, and maybe even ignore the wonders in favor of rapid expansion and extermination.

I favor aiming to get the wonders to make our job easier and cheaper. (It would be nice if the Mongols built Magellan's Voyage, both our goodies on one island.) However, easy and cheap may not equal fast. We will want to conquer both Persia and Mongolia. The question would seem to be do we target them directly (and maybe bypass others for a while) or let our natural expansion engulf them in due time.

 

[Kulko]

Iroqouis
America
The Yanks have less than 10 turns left on their multi-city empire. Two cities over there and two more on the mainland. I don't like where two mainland cities are located; they seem rather close to our core and without an ROP we have to go around them. I would favor gifting them a city in France or a small coastal city on the mainland. Then we can raze/replace on their island with our current units already in place and add settlers into the newly reacquired mainland cities.

Peace for now, with war is in the near future, but no big hurry.

The cities he owns now are justa lease to him, because otherwise they would have been forcefully leased to Babsy. Give him a nice little prison city as a permanent home.

 

[Whomp]

America will be easy for the next player. I'm inclined to hit the French since we're already at war take them down to one city. I think there's a possibility the Celts could be knocked out this set as well with some defensive units upon landing.

My priority will be the French and secondarily the Celts.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Sounds good to me. Aim for Paris and then Rheims, leaving France with Lyons. Then we jump over to the Quois island, where we can afford to take all their towns because thety have one on Alpha already. But Niagara and Grand River are the most important as they lie on the path of conquest. Then to attack the Mongols, I wonder if we could establish a beach-head town on the hill on their northern coast. This would open Tabriz as the next target, from there we strike south into fog, where we should find Tatu, which is where Leonardo was built iirc? Sounds easy huh?

 

[Whomp]

Sorry but I took Lyons instead of Rheims.

Pre-turn:
Zulus are available to take out.

Peace with:
Americans for 10
Ottomans for 10
Germans for 11
Russians for 16
Arabs for 16
Greeks for 19
Japan for 19

Alliances with:
Mayans, Indians and Koreans against Chinese for 17

At war with:
Mongols (Will talk but are insulted with straight up)
French (Won't talk)
Chinese (Will talk but nothing for 17)
Iroquois (Won't talk)
Egytians will give peace for mono in exchange for their 35g and 3gpt
Aztecs (Won't talk)

Other trades:
Indians will trade their spices for incense, ivory, CoL, currency and lit
Incans will trade their furs for incense, ivory and theo

We have 1408g and 350gpt

Wake a bunch of units and upgrade 6 knights on the American island. We'll try to chain them down to Babylon.
Sink two French galleys.
Short rush muskets for cavs
76g in Camp Elite
96g cav in 2 in Wolf 359
128g cav in 2 Sevastapol
196g cav in 2 Agincourt
60g explorer for carrack in Trafalgar
20g for settler in Mers-el-Kebir, Tel-Bacher, Guadalcanal, San Juan Hill and Edge Hill

Get gpt to 422gpt
Egytians will give peace for mono in exchange for their 35g and 3gpt
I'd like to stop the Mongol incursions and they're surrounded by the Germans, Greeks and Mayans.
The Germans will do it for silks, ivory, incense and 7gpt.
Greeks for 6gpt, ivory, incense and education
Mayans for theology
Finish with 445g and 409gpt

IT
Russia and Mongols ally vs. Germans
Hittites and Mongols ally vs. Mayans

510
Establish Bull Run
Get a MGL taking out a injured musket and start a cav army.
Move units towards Babylon including a ship chain. Sink a Chinese galley.
Trade Hittites theo for their bank of 104g.
Trade Koreans for printing press, Music theory, 50g, 4gpt and ROP for chemistry
Trade Mayans printing press for 9gpt and 22g
Trade Greeks printing press for 12gpt and 18g
Trade Sumerians printing press for 63g
Trade one city Arabs theo for 8gpt and 42g
Trade Indians silks ivory, incense currency and lit for spices
Short rush settler for carrack in Flameborough
Hurry a cav for 40g in Bunker Hill
Short rush musket in Teuto cav in 3 and 200g for Somme and Maxia in 2
Settler for 28g in Iwo Jima, 32g in Najran and 40g in Rorke's Drift.
365g and 414gpt

IT Arabs and Mongols vs. Mayans. Mongols pull a caravel up to Stamford Bridge but no drop offs. 3 cavs and a musket await them.

520 Establish Chickamauga, Powder Alarm and Anzio.
Raze one of the Babylonian cities. The capital and a island city are all that's left.
Gift Prison 5 to Zulus and declare. Get an elite win vs. a LB.

IT Celts and Mongols vs. Greeks. Iroquois pull a galley near Prison City 4. Mongol caravel heads north.
530 Take down Babylon with a cav loss. Take down Ishazulu city and get another MGL.
Sink a Babylon galley and the Iroquois galley.
Take Babylonians 7g for peace.
Rush a carrack in Medina as we prepare for the French.
Trade music theory for 7gpt to the Greeks.

IT Arabs and Mongols vs. Germans
540
Plant 12 units in front of Paris.
Establish Leyte Gulf, Kemp's Landing, Saipan and Crooked Billet in old Babylon.

IT Lose two muskets and two crusaders on the French counterattack. Ow...
They lose about 8 units in the process. The Mongols drop off 3 on the American island.
550 Land our knight, cav army and 3 more cavs on top of the units. Our cavs take down 4 spears and leaves the city with a regular spear on top. Load 3 injured cavs onto the carracks to heal.
Lose a cav but knock out the 3 Mongols.
Establish Ardennes, Gettysburg and Chancellorsville.

IT No French attacks. Germans and Americans vs. Mongols.
560Take out about 8 units in Paris without a loss and maintain city till I can place the settler.
Establish Fort Ticonderoga and Tayacoba
Koreans pick up banking. That's 4 with it and 3 still have nav.
Sell Americans CoL for 48g.
Sell Greeks silks for 9gpt and 56g.
Sell printing press to Arabs for 31g.

IT Aztecs pull up with 2 galleys. The French pile a bunch of units next to Paris. Leader farming material.
b570
Take out all the units in front of Paris and get about 6 elite victories. Abandon Paris and establish Coral Sea.
Hit a Iroquois archer that pops out of Allegheny. We'll need to take that city since I forgot about it.
Make peace with the Zulus for their 16g.
Sell printing press to the Hittites for 7gpt and 55g

IT China declares on the Greeks.
Russia signs a deal with the Chinese against us! Damn. They raze Crooked Billet with knight.
Russia declares on the Greeks.
Japan and Russia vs. Greeks.
Russian Knight raze Crooked Creek.
Mongols finish JS Bach.
580
Take out the Russian knight. Let's see if we can drop them to another city.
Take Lyons with a couple more elite victories. Take warrior with an elite.
Establish Guam on the island.
Take Orleans with a cav loss and another elite victory.
Make peace with France for their 2g. Gift them Prison City.

590
Prepare for the Celts and Iroquois. Take out Allegheny.
Sell Incans printing press for 53g.

IT France declares on Germans.
Arabs and Mongols vs. Greeks

600
Prepare units for onslaught against either Iroquois or Mongols.
As well, prepare another force for the Celts at Flameborough Head.
Sell everything and abandon Lyons and Orleans. Establish Trenton and Resaca de la Palma
Remove both Aztec galleys and a Russian one as well.
Mongols and Persians get physics.

Summary
We have plenty of units to hit the Celts either this turn or next. We're moving carracks towards the Iroquois. We should have at least one carrack coming from our mainland to the French island so we can island and ship chain. I've left some units back to protect against any incursions from the Russians. With that in mind, it might be worthwhile gifting some of our Prison cities to our next conquests. The Celts for sure but also the Americans.

The Save

 

[Whomp]

After thinking about this a bit. It might be better to bring all the units in Flameborough and send them to the American island and take out them out. Our peace deal will over after this turn and we'd have a launching pad for the units to other islands.

To keep this moving I can always play a few more turns. Let me know...

Roster

Paperbeetle - Up
Kulko - on deck
CommandoBob -
socralynnek - out till Feb 8th
Whomp -

 

[CommandoBob]

With that in mind, it might be worthwhile gifting some of our Prison cities to our next conquests. The Celts for sure but also the Americans.

I think it would be better if those prison cities were not on the mainland. Especially in the middle of Portugal. Like with Russia now, we don't want to divert units to police our interior borders.

Old Babylon looks like a good place to have prison cities. We could put in several more. It has a short 3 or 4 tile chokepoint at Cerro Gordo, so defending would not be too difficult. Cerro Gordo is on a hill and has a hill NE of it, then two grassland tiles complete the border. Once Russia is moved, we could build a city to anchor the other end.

For the Celts and Yanks right now, which ever one we attack first should be gifted Prison City 4, on our NE coast by the Arabs and Zulu. The other one could be gifted a city on the first one's island.

Gift City Names
We might want to rename our gifted city before we give it away, just so we can keep track of it easier. 'Prison City' is very descriptive for us, but once the city is given away it loses something. I don't have a good suggestion, except maybe renaming the city something like Last Washington or Last Moscow before we give it away.

Luxuries
Per CAII, we have one Spice inside our borders and it is unconnected, but I can't find it. I think CAII is wrong. It also shows that we have zero connected Ivory, but just look around Camp Elite!

 

[Whomp]

Actually, that makes good sense since the northern Prison cities and some southern Prison cities will protect our flanks. Unfortunately, I already gifted the French a desert Prison City but gifting one of the new placements in old Zulu or Babylon to the American/Celts makes sense.

We should try to make peace asap with the Russians or try to get them to take one of our cities. The only concern taking a city is they'll raze it. There are units surrounding their perimeter so sneak attacks are not very likely. Also, the 2 American cities on our island should be taken and replaced with a faraway prison city.

 

[Whomp]

Should I keep playing the save? I have some free time tonight and it would be nice to keep moving the save.

 

[CommandoBob]

Play on. No one has claimed it and it has been long enough.

 

[Whomp]

OK I'll try to get 4 or 5 more turns in along with more pics this time.

 

[Whomp]

Cancel ROP with the Americans, trade them lit for 9g and gift them Prison City 4.
Start by taking Saratoga and city in our core.
Take Atlanta and keep it for the time being. Hit DC and take one spear.
IT Rome and Mongols vs. Mayans.
Ottomans and Mongols vs. Mayans.
Ottomans and Germans vs. Arabs.
Iroquois drop off a MW on French island.
Lose a cav to American sword.

610 Establish Stones River and Bethelville on France.
Give mono for 22g to the Celts.
Gift Badjoz to the Celts.
Declare on them and land a army with cannon and cavalry back up.
The Russians will make peace but there's little leader material that popped out so next turn.

IT Germans and Arabs make peace.
620
Attack Alesia and take the city without loss.
Take down Richborugh but lose a cav to a gallic sword
Establish Solomon Islands and Blackburn's Ford.
Take out the Russian spear and make peace. Gift them Ardennes.

IT 14 gallic swords and 2 horseman move near Alesia.


630 Knock the stack down to about 6 gallics and 2 horses.

Take out Niagra Falls.


IT Zulus and Mongols vs. Germans.
The Iroquois attack the army but lose. Take a elite knight in the process though.
Zulus and Babs. vs. Mayans
Iroquois drop off two MW's on France.

640
Wipe out the Iroquois incursion with elites.
Take down both MW's with elite horses and get another MGL.
Take out Salamanca and raze the city. We can take the whole island since they have another city somewhere.
Abandon Richborough and Alesia and establish Pearl Harbor and Roan's Tan Yard.
Sell Zulus music theory for 50g.
Sell Mayans music theory for 52g. We have 7 turns left on other deals so we'll probably want to take them out soon.

IT Maya and Arabs make peace.
Rome and Mongols vs. Germans
Russia and Germans make peace.
Gaines Mill is established on the mainland.
650
Take out the Iroquois' last city on their island and make peace for 5g.
Sell Rome theo for 91g.

Summary
Time for the Mongols. There's two carracks fortified in Niagra Falls waiting for units to heal. The Celts are on their heels and we simply need healing. I forgot to check if the Americans will make peace but I'm pretty sure they will.

The Save

 

[PaperBeetle]

Okay, I'll see if I can pick it up tonight. Looking forward to a bit of the old .

I think it would be better if those prison cities were not on the mainland. Especially in the middle of Portugal. Like with Russia now, we don't want to divert units to police our interior borders.

Well, the idea of these desert prisons is that the prisoner has only a pop 1 town, stuck at +0fpt, 1spt (or is it 2spt for being on a terrain which naturally produces shields?). Thus they can't pose a threat and don't really need policing. All they do is slowly build spears; even if they do decide to attack us, we can respond before they do any damage, using the fresh crop of units produced in our core every turn. The situation is quite different to that of Russia, which was left with a large, productive, cultured town.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Well, I've had a poke around the save, changed some bits of micro etc. We could buy Banking from the Koreans in exchange for Metallurgy. Do we want to do this? Both techs are known to four civs apart from Korea and us, so it's a pretty even swap. Wang would also give us his cash and a bit of gpt in the deal, although Korea is a possible target for future war, as it is close to our new southern towns.

I must say the Mongols look pretty scary. The diplo advisor says their military is the same size as ours , although he is a bit of a dove - the military advisor is confident that our military is stronger. They are apparently fielding cavs, which could make a landing pretty painful. Presumably they will have no qualms about attacking a 2-cav army on a mountain? One trick I could try is to drop some kind of bikini babe on the unroaded southern tip of Mongolia (which is actually German territory), to get the Mongolian military out of position. I could get a musket or crusader down there, but it would take ~6 turns to reach it, either sailing down the Mongol-german channel, or west from our Celtic fleet and between Greece and Egypt.

 

[CommandoBob]

Factoid:

We have 5 turns left on MAs vs. Mongols, with Germany, Greece and Maya.

Hmm, if we were to put a unit on the hill that is 1N-3NW of Karakorum, would the AI react to that? This hill is inside Mongol borders, but it is on another landmass and cannot be reached from the Mongol mainland. Would the AI send units to try to attack that hill?