SGOTM 14 - Ivan
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I. Larkin
Deity
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I have time, but situation at game become more and more turbulent. We need to "odered" it somehow. I assume that I will play only If Othniel will say that he can't play on Monday and I'll start then.
We need at least one day to discuss plans...
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
I won't be able to touch the game at all or contribute to discussion until late Monday evening. So it's fine if Ivan wants to swap me.
It was my best intention to gift them something... But the war in Japan was still in full swing, impossible to gift a town there. And the way they were approaching our towns, it was clear they would attack next IBT (just like the Hittites did, even after I signed a RoP with them). By asking them to leave, I wanted to "clarify" the situation. And also it is better to have the first strike, than to put a number of units into the threatened towns and wait, whether they will attack, or not, or maybe two turns later, or just pillage our roads... In that situation there was only the choice between "bad and evil"...
Regarding "ordering" the situation: France and India should be pretty straightforward. India will become Ottomania's new neighbor...
Arabia, Russia and Babylon can be taken care of, once we have ICSed Japan and India.But the situation in the west demands some good ideas. At the moment I'm unsure what would be best. Celtia looks strongly defended, the Gallic swordsman is very strong. After the situation in Japan is cleared (their resistance should be broken now, I deleted ~40 units by now), there are several good options:
- Move the Japan stack to Aztekia and attack Celtia with a new stack from the core
- Move the Japan stack to Aztekia and attack America with a new stack from the core
- Move the stack from Japan to Celtia and combine it with new units from the core
After the lesson learned in Japan, I favor option 3 at the moment. 3 or 4 more Kts in Japan would have made all the difference: I would have had less losses (no "outside campers", if my Edo stack would have had 3 more units) and Osaka would now be ours as well. The Celts are even stronger. So throw everything at them we have. It will minimize the losses and make our progress faster.
Option 2 may be ok as well, but option 1 would certainly overstretch our western forces too much.
Lanzelot
I. Larkin
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With some small deviations we may already plan the game to the very end. It may answer to the vitual questions like "do we need CH and Market here or there"...Also "interaction time may be "typical". Idea of the "plan" is to minimize troops back and forth and order of "gifts", that we plan "in priniciple" long time ago but have not done yet.
I would say, the attack on India can be started as soon as 20-25 units have been assembled there. (That was about the force I had in Japan, and they look of equal strength.) But the attack on Celtia needs more preparation. I think we need the entire Japanese stack plus another 20 units from the core, before we can dare it. Otherwise our landing force may easily be wiped out by the GS counter-attack. So I'd say India first.
I know that you would prefer to send the Japanese stack on to Aztekia, but I'd say that's too risky. And going to Celtia is not loosing time: they can go on to Greece from there, so no need to go "back and forth".
Lanzelot
I know that you would prefer to send the Japanese stack on to Aztekia, but I'd say that's too risky. And going to Celtia is not loosing time: they can go on to Greece from there, so no need to go "back and forth".
Lanzelot
eldar
ChiefTank
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A couple of comments:
It looks like the end of the article is missing?! Or did I download a truncated version?
Can the function S(t) really be approximated as a constant? If you use things like short-rushing, connect/disconnect etc, then S(t) will depend on how much gold you pay for unit upkeep each turn. In the beginning this may be a considerable amount (depending on K_0, of course), but once you have captured the first 50 cities or so, unit upkeep will be 0.
L does not only depend on the player's skill, but also on the "current" opponent. I.e, when fighting India (spears), the "current L" will be much less than when fighting Greece (hoplites).
Otherwise a very interesting approach! I'd like to see the conclusion of the paper.
The Knights in the swamp: yes, that's unfortunate, but I didn't plan it that way... One galley got sunk, and two had to be redirected for the rescue of Paris. (With all those Bab, Zulu, Roman and Hittite galleys swimming around in that area, I did not dare to leave only one single galley there.) So I had only 2 galleys instead of 5 for the transfer to India. But I directed two more there to help out: one from the west and one is our "scouting" galley that now returns home. Both should arrive in 1-2 turns, and then you can get the remaining Kts over to India faster.
Things like this (everybody suddenly attacking Paris) can't be calculated in advance, and then you have to "improvise". I decided that trying to keep Paris would be worth the effort, because a) the furs and b) it's a foothold for our coming attack on France. Should I have left it to its fate and concentrate 100% on India only? But I thought that a few galleys up at Paris will also be good, because with only a small force (10-15), we can quickly take France and probably also Iroquoisia (which should be weak as well). And then this small force can be joined to a bigger one, for example when "converging" on the German/Mongolian/Greek continent.
Regarding gifting: of course it depends on how fast we clear a suitable area. So Japan would be the first possibility. But I don't like to gift too many Japanese towns, because it's our GLH island. I would say at most two civs should go to Japan, perhaps Russia and France. The others (Arabia, Celts, Iroquois, whoever is next...) I would prefer to send to India.
Regards, Lanzelot
It looks like the end of the article is missing?! Or did I download a truncated version?
Can the function S(t) really be approximated as a constant? If you use things like short-rushing, connect/disconnect etc, then S(t) will depend on how much gold you pay for unit upkeep each turn. In the beginning this may be a considerable amount (depending on K_0, of course), but once you have captured the first 50 cities or so, unit upkeep will be 0.
L does not only depend on the player's skill, but also on the "current" opponent. I.e, when fighting India (spears), the "current L" will be much less than when fighting Greece (hoplites).
Otherwise a very interesting approach! I'd like to see the conclusion of the paper.
The Knights in the swamp: yes, that's unfortunate, but I didn't plan it that way... One galley got sunk, and two had to be redirected for the rescue of Paris. (With all those Bab, Zulu, Roman and Hittite galleys swimming around in that area, I did not dare to leave only one single galley there.) So I had only 2 galleys instead of 5 for the transfer to India. But I directed two more there to help out: one from the west and one is our "scouting" galley that now returns home. Both should arrive in 1-2 turns, and then you can get the remaining Kts over to India faster.
Things like this (everybody suddenly attacking Paris) can't be calculated in advance, and then you have to "improvise". I decided that trying to keep Paris would be worth the effort, because a) the furs and b) it's a foothold for our coming attack on France. Should I have left it to its fate and concentrate 100% on India only? But I thought that a few galleys up at Paris will also be good, because with only a small force (10-15), we can quickly take France and probably also Iroquoisia (which should be weak as well). And then this small force can be joined to a bigger one, for example when "converging" on the German/Mongolian/Greek continent.
Regarding gifting: of course it depends on how fast we clear a suitable area. So Japan would be the first possibility. But I don't like to gift too many Japanese towns, because it's our GLH island. I would say at most two civs should go to Japan, perhaps Russia and France. The others (Arabia, Celts, Iroquois, whoever is next...) I would prefer to send to India.
Regards, Lanzelot
PS: I already wrote it, but for completeness: I would gift India the remaining Ottoman town. The Celts can then later go to India.
I. Larkin
Deity
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Yes, paper "truncated". Rest (Part 2 and Part 3 ) is more important, actually. To questions: Equation (3) is approximation of (2) when S constant You right, it is missprint there. In reality S_ always grow slightly. In Part 3 I discussed what if we try to make investments. Probably will finish Part 2 now.
Doc file at # 451 is updated.
Really troops all System should be connected. Knights must be on the road and Galleys form a chain. If we stay on Sea nobody attack it. It was classical example of "poor position feeling", that tremendous stack can do nothing against small desant.
Doc file at # 451 is updated.
I. Larkin
Deity
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Played to 270 Ad. Zimbabwe fliped. 3 towns in India captured and only 1 in Japan left. Should gone next turn. Where Japan troops may go? Think to declare to France this turn and to Celts next turn. Am I write, that Celts will go to India and France to Japan? Where Russia will go? Just discover, that Yaroslavl' have many Russians inside. What we can do about that?
I. Larkin
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here it is but after 1 hour I will go home and will play 2-3 turns more.
Tomorrow problem may be how to Deal with Rome.
My plan is to have "mosaique" in India and not stay there at all.
Also I'd like to send Russia very far away to reduce risk of Yaroslavl' flip.
