SGOTM 14 - klarius

[TheOverseer714]

I need to finish my Hawk 03 turns first. Am I ready.....errr, maybe. I'm starting to feel like a newb with all these tricks you advanced players have. I hope I don't screw up too badly.

No kidding, Rat gave me a day at most.

 

[Vind2]

Dont worry, just remember i still ahve to play

 

[Northern Pike]

Overseer, remember that you can take as much time as you need when you start to play. In practice we're always faster than the other teams, but that's because we avoid wasted time in which no one's playing. The point isn't that anyone should rush his turns.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I started playing, finally. I wonder if a war with Russia is a good idea, they are a major cash cow, and I'm not finding much money elsewhere. I'm thinking Arabia, the Zulu, then Russia. Of course Military Tradition is next, and that could make for even quicker knockdowns. I have finished the Ottomans, they are 1CC, so who do you want me to go after next?

 

[Elephantium]

I'd say Arabia; it minimizes our front line.

How are we doing for troops?

 

[TheOverseer714]

We have plenty and Cavalry will be here next turnset. Arabia should be a quick conquest, with 5 cities. We're actually losing 7 gpt to them, so a war would be a gain of that money back and enough Ivory to keep half the world happy.

 

[Northern Pike]

Sure, go ahead against the Arabs, but:

1. Make sure that before you declare war you gift to Arabia a useless tundra town (whether Bursa or one you've founded), because we don't want to let the Arabs keep any of their present cities.

2. If you haven't already carried out the diplomatic programme indicated by Klarius in post #158, do so before we damage our reputation by attacking the Arabs while allied to them.

3. Don't ignore Russia. We should be using our RoP with Cathy, while it lasts, to move MDI towards Moscow and other inner Russian cities. And the 29 gpt we're netting from the Russians is no longer enough to keep us from attacking them, provided you're confident of success.

 

[klarius]

Losing 7gpt is no argument at all. That's negligible.
If we kill our reputation I want more for it.

A general remark: If you want advice mid turn upload a save file. It's not possible to see all the implications w/o looking into the save.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I didn't know uploading a mid-turn save was acceptable. I hope that uploading it here is not a violation, but here is where I stopped last night. I think the treaty vs the Ottomans can be cancelled, but I am not going to go unless that is true. Edit: It can't be cancelled, so that war can wait. I'll leave a couple MDIs at Istanbul to recapture in case of a flip and start moving the troops toward Russia. We are currently making 110 gpt from Russia, BTW.
I definitely don't want to blow our rep for 7 gpt. I may have screwed up by selling Gunpowder to Russia, though it seems they haven't been able to hook Saltpeter up due to the Babylon war. I haven't moved troops into Russia yet, I am just not used to deliberately committing RoP-rape and I am still tying up loose ends on the Ottoman war. Anyway, here is the save.

 

[klarius]

Uploading is always possible. AlanH would like it more, if you uploaded to the server than as an attachment, but he generally accepts the thread attachment also, if you don't mess up anything else .

OK, the treaty with Arabs cannot be canceled normally (still 9 turns to go). But if you really want to go against Arabs, there is the usual method.

• Make them furious by demanding something they will not give about 20 times (e.g a city).
• Tell them to leave or declare - they will declare.

Another point:
What has happened to Oporto again. 5 food on average is the deal and not doing much more shields than you need. Even if the MM gets messed up, it's normally possible to cure that, as we have potential for 6 food.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Oporto was already off track due to making something besides settlers, this settler should get it back on. The next should be less wasted food and shields. I can do the gift of Bursa, followed by unreasonable demands and then the leave or declare next turn, this turn we are too vulnerable.

 

[klarius]

Oporto was already off track due to making something besides settlers, this settler should get it back on. The next should be less wasted food and shields. I can do the gift of Bursa, followed by unreasonable demands and then the leave or declare next turn, this turn we are too vulnerable.

Why are we too vulnerable? All the Arabs are well covered.

There is never the guarantee that you have troops in your land the next turn, so do it when it's possible.

BTW, another thing. MM is generally a mess.
Don't build MDI anymore, knights are now the name of the game, to be upgraded to cav. In the rather weak cities building troops one can short-rush.

• change to musket
• rush
• change to knight and complete normally in 2-3 turns

Oporto is messed up recently. Being at 8 food is just totally wrong. And it will build now a settler going down to size 4, which is also wrong (settler factory should be 5-7). And it's set so that the settler will overshoot by 4 shields for no good.
At least switch away from the iron for 1 more coin. The iron should only be worked on the growth turn, the plains forest shouldn't be needed at all unless building something else than settlers.

 

[Vind2]

ATM 9 turns on the deal with arabia, so if we can't get them to DoW we won't have too long to wait. There's also 9 more turns of deals with Zululand so I suggest not renewing those.

 

[TheOverseer714]

My MM skills are kind of weak, I'll admit. I am probably too lazy and unfocused to really play above Emperor regularly. I hope I don't hurt the team too badly by my participation. Please bear with me, this game is more than I usually deal with, I rarely play any more than 7 opponents at Emperor, not 25 at Demigod.

 

[Vind2]

Take your time, try and focus on doing it its not too hard, its more of a chore

 

[Elephantium]

Agreed - it's merely a matter of being diligent in checking the necessary cities every turn, despite the tedium. It's a large part of what makes me so much better at SGs than solo games; I get bored with constant MMing in solo games, but in SGs, it's only for 10 turns, so it's no big deal.

 

[klarius]

My MM skills are kind of weak, I'll admit. I am probably too lazy and unfocused to really play above Emperor regularly. I hope I don't hurt the team too badly by my participation. Please bear with me, this game is more than I usually deal with, I rarely play any more than 7 opponents at Emperor, not 25 at Demigod.

Don't worry too much.
I'm used to play with people not that well adapted too high level MM. I will rant a little, but I don't think it matters that much. But listen to the high level babble of the experienced players (/me) about diplomacy and such things.

 

[Northern Pike]

Overseer, attacking the Arabs is definitely the right idea, provided you're able to get them to declare war as Klarius describes. Marching our MDI in the former Ottoman lands west for 8-10 turns just to deploy them against Russia would be a completely unacceptable waste of time, now that we've entered the conquest phase. Those units should just attack what's nearest to them until they're all gone.

When I referred to moving MDI into Russia for a RoP-rape, I meant those already close to Russia, in our homeland. With eleven MDI in or west of Emerita, and knights becoming available for mobile defense of our coasts, I think we could put together a reasonable force for this purpose. But if you wouldn't be comfortable with reducing our strength at home as this would require, don't worry about it. Whatever your choice, try to move our elite MDI to where it can make some safe attacks, unless our enemies have been landing where it is.

Be very careful with our knights, because to lose such expensive units when they're about to upgrade to almost invincible cav would be terrible. Attacks on cities of size seven or better, and any attacks on pikemen or musketmen, should be made strictly with MDI.

This is outright quibbling now , but the warrior in Guimares is useless. Move it to where it at least protects against flips or adds a defender to a border town.

 

[Vind2]

Should we begin to build a few transports for our expansion, or am I looking too far into the future?

 

[TheOverseer714]

For better or for worse I have finished and submitted the save. Highlights....the Ottomans are 1CC, the Arabs are 3CC, and we have Cavalry, I upgraded all but 1 Knight and 1 Horseman. If the MMs a mess, I apologize, it's not my forte. Oporto is still not a 4-turn 5-7 pop settler factory, I never got it on track. We have many wars going, most of them phony. I leave it to the next player to stir the pot further. I take full responsibility for the actions I took, hopefully I did't screw up too badly. I will post my turnlog in a few minutes, though at 4 pages, it might put you to sleep. It will definitely be spoilered

Spoiler :

Pre-flight: CivAssist 2, Word running. Get the save loaded. Look things over.
Begin working on Klarius’ extensive set of instructions. Contact Germany. Cancel Maya and Mongol alliances. We lose the 1 gpt but take their 25 gold.
Contact Egypt cancel the same alliances with them, and lose the 15 gpt payment.
Make peace with Maya straight up. Make peace with Mongols for 20 gold and 4 gpt from them.
Make an embassy with Rome for 57 gold. They have Iron and Wines, and their capital(pop 6) has 5 Legionaries but only has a Barracks and is building a Temple at 11 spt. They might make a useful attack dog.
Make an embassy with the Mongols for 96 gold, their capital is 10 population, well-developed and is building the GLib at 26 spt (9 turns away). They have Iron…maybe everyone does? They have 11 Wool tiles hooked up.
Make an embassy with the Aztecs for 67 gold, their capital(pop 6) is well-developed, building a Marketplace at 12 spt. They have Iron, Horses, 5 Wines and 1 Dye.
Embassy, Korea, costs 67 gold. Capital(pop 6) poorly-developed, GLib(1 turn) 10 spt. 2 Horses, Iron, 1 Ivory.
Embassy, Sumeria, costs 105 gold. Capital(pop 7) well-developed, Cathedral(1 turn) 6 spt. Horses, Iron, no luxes.
Embassy, Hittites, costs 70 gold. Capital(pop 4) medium-developed, GLib(26 turns) 7 spt. Horses, Iron, 5 Wines.
Embassy, Maya, costs 98 gold. Capital(pop 12) well-developed, Cathedral(1 turn) 25 spt. Horses, no Iron, 1 Ivory, 1 Wool. We have embassies with everyone now.
Contact Korea first. Buy them into an alliance vs India for 19gpt. Sell them Invention for 65 gold and 20 gpt. Alliance vs Babylonians for 24 gpt. Gunpowder for 23 gpt.
Next is the Maya. Alliance vs China and India for Feudalism.
Next is the Mongols. Alliance vs Iroquois and Greeks for Engineering.
Next is Persia. Buy them into an alliance vs India and Japan for 3 gpt and Invention.
Next is Rome. They are way back in techs but want 100 gold and 54 gpt to ally vs Japan. Against my better judgement, I do it. Trade them Mathematics for 100 gold and 4 gpt. Philosophy 5 gpt. Polytheism 12 gpt. Literature 7 gpt. Currency 8 gpt, and the well is dry. Net loss 20 gpt.
Dial up France, DoW them.
Dial up the Inca, Alliance vs France for Monarchy. Alliance vs Iroquois for Republic.
Dial up the Aztecs, DoW them.
Dial up the Hittites, Alliance vs Aztecs for Monotheism and their 18 gold.
Dial up Egypt. Alliance vs Aztecs and Iroquois for Monotheism.
Dial up Russia, Trade them Invention for 44 gpt. Trade them Gunpowder for Chivalry and 7 gpt. We are getting 103 gpt from them and they have Knights, I can’t see declaring on them anytime soon.
After 2 hours, I’m out of creativity for Machiavellian exploits. Hope I didn’t screw up too badly.
Short-rush settler in Oporto for 92 gold total.
Rush Worker in Aydin for 32 gold.
Rush Library in Braga for 240 gold.
Switch Faro to a Galley.

Non-Combat:
Settlers 2
Workers 14
Military:
Warriors 3
Horsemen 3
MDIs 26
Galley 1
Curraghs 2

Hit enter=>

IBT: Japanese land 3 Spears, a Sword, an Archer and a Warrior at the normal spot…ouch, now I wish I had just made peace there.
Maya make peace with Egypt.
Lisbon MDI=>MDI.
Edrine Trebuchet=>Trebuchet.
Oporto Settler=>Settler.
Aydin Worker=>Trebuchet.
Braga Library=>Galley.
Seoul finishes GLib on schedule.

Turn 1, 330 BC: Settle Rio Janeiro on Iron=>Trebuchet.
Upgrade wounded Horse to Knight.
All 6 MDIs win vs Japanese units, losing only 3 hp lost in total.
All 4 MDIs win at Istanbul, only 8 hp lost in total. 2 slaves taken.
Bursa is new capital. Troops moved there, we can take it next.

IBT: Ottomans suicide their last 2 Swords on American Spear.
Egypt makes peace with Mongols.
Japanese want to talk, I decline, lest I be tempted.
Russia and Celts make peace.
Roman Galley enters our waters….explorer or future backstab?
Evora Barracks=>MDI.
Greeks Finish Knights Templar.

Turn 2, 310 BC: 2 MDIs win, losing 2hp total. Bursa taken.
MM Oporto to match Settler to match growth.
Move horses toward Uskudar to block Arabs from getting to it.
Rush Settler in Edrine for 108 gold.

IBT: America and the Celts make peace.
Romans land 2 Legionaries at Oporto, looks like backstab in progress.
Metallurgy arrives, next is Military Tradition in 8 turns at +152 gpt.
Our allies ending deals is freeing up lots of cash.
Lisbon MDI=>MDI.
Edrine Settler=Worker.
Guimaraes MDI=>MDI.

Turn 3, 290 BC: Contact the polite Romans, give them the leave or declare.
They declare war….that should equal war happiness.
Lose 1 MDI, redline another, last one at 2 hp, the Intruders are dead.
Settle AI Retirement Home #2 near Bursa.
Seal off Uskudar with Horses, when I get MDIs there they can be moved out.
I get America back in against the Celts for 18 gpt.
Get 7 gpt back for Philosophy.
I dial up Egypt, get an alliance vs Rome for 28 gpt.
Get 26 gpt back for Feudalism.
Rome is a bad, bad doggie, turning on its master….they need a lesson.

IBT: Ottomans Archer kills the horse guarding them…….idiots!
Emerita Knight=>Knight.
Coimbra MDI=>MDI.

Turn 4, 270 BC: Lose 2 hp killing an Archer with an MDI ...RnG luck souring.
Try my leave or declare on the Arabs, guess I needed to get them more angry

IBT: Arabs leave our territory…missed a huge opportunity there.
Oporto Settler=>Settler.
Lagos Knight=>Knight.

Turn 5, 250 BC: Now that I know what Oporto is supposed to be at, I can try to get it back on track. Set it for settler in 6 turns.
Short rush Knights in Sagres and Evora.

IBT: Arab Warrior steps into our territory.
Germany wants an alliance vs Mongols…..not a chance.
Lisbon Knight=>Knight.

Turn 6, 230 BC: Rename Bursa Arabian Retirement Home.
Get Abu righteously pissed, ask him to remove or declare. He DoWs us.
Knight captures 2 workers at Damascus.
Kill a Spears guarding Najran with Knight, other Knight retreats.
Lose 1 MDI on a foolish attack, imagine attacking a mighty Warrior on a hill with a lowly MDI. 2nd MDI gets revenge, promotes.
Move 4 MDI toward Baghdad.

IBT: Ottoman Archer attacks his MDI guard.
Japanese lands a Sword and Spear on the Wheat tile, which I stupidly left uncovered causing Oporto to not grow.
Rome sends a Sword from Russia with love.
Sagres Knight=>Knight.
Evora Knight=>Knight.

Turn 7, 210 BC: Kill the Japanese and Roman intruders, no losses.
2 MDIs take Najran. Move some MDI toward Russia.

IBT: Ottoman Galley sinks ours.
Arabian Archer suicides on an MDI.
French and Inca make peace.
French and Greeks want to talk…..I don’t, figuring we want those wars to continue.
Leiria Knight=>Knight.

Turn 8, 190 BC: Kill an Arab Warrior with an eMDI.
Kill 2 Spears and an Archer, taking Damascus, 2 slaves captured.
Hopefully I can take Baghdad next.

IBT: Korea and India make peace.
Lisbon Knight=>Knight.
Istanbul Worker=>Library.
Iznik Cannon=>Cannon.
Guimaraes Knight=>Knight.
Emerita Knight=>Knight.
Evora Knight=>Knight.

Turn 9, 170 BC: Forest chop near Lisbon reveals regular grass…begin reforesting.
Move more MDIs toward Moscow.
Kill 2 Spears at Baghdad, lose 1 more….should have waited til next turn when 2 more attackers are available.
A small amount of MMing gets Military Tradition in 1 turn, not 2.

IBT: Japanese Galley sinks a Curragh of ours.
Germany and Maya make peace.
A bunch of tribes ask to talk.
Ottomans and America make peace.
Military Tradition arrives, next is Theology in 5 turns.
OPorto Settler=>Settler.

Turn 10, 150 BC: Upgrade 10 of our 11 Knights.
Lose an elite MDI, 2 veterans win and Baghdad is ours.
Do a deal
Non-Combat:
Settlers 2
Workers 14
Slaves 24
Military:
Warriors 3
Horsemen 1
Knight 1
Cavalry 10
Cannon 1 Trebuchet 1, Catapult 1
MDIs 26
Galley
Curraghs 1
Unit support:
Units:60
Allowed : 31
Unit Costs: 58

Research
Theology, 5 turns at +117 gpt

Sliders
0%/90%/10%

The save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm14/Klarius_SG014_BC0150_01.SAV