SGOTM 14 - klarius

Northern Pike · Nov 16, 2008

Good work against the Arabs and the Russians. :goodjob:

The elimination of the Babylonians really hurts, though. Not your fault, GB--keeping them at war with multiple opponents was a calculated risk which we pushed too far when we renewed our anti-Bab alliance with Russia at the beginning of your round.

Can we afford to honour our peace treaty with the Zulus for another eight turns? Doing nothing for that length of time, in combination with the ten-turn penalty for the elimination of the Babs, might well doom us in the competition with other teams.

Edit: Cross-post with Vind. Yes, getting the Zulus to declare on us would obviously be the best solution. I don't see any of their units in our land at the moment, though.

Vind2 · Nov 16, 2008

Another questoin, what do we want to do with the newly conquered lands? Science farms? More cities would help get our % population up faster. Also we should sign ROPs up in the retirement homes and place some troops around their citiesvto prevent any of them getting killed.

The loss of babylon is quite a blow, as it seems the only real potential for AI on AI deaths where on our island.

klarius · Nov 16, 2008

Well, it looks to my that the Zulu have done most to destroy the Babs.
We should have declared on Zulus 3 turns into the turn-set when the alliance ran out.
The renewed peace treaty w/o other linked trades is no problem.
Also we should have rather made peace with the Babs and gifted them a city. Their destruction ruined our reputation anyway.

Declare on Zulu now.

We need no science camps, as we don't want to research any farther than astronomy. Also we need no more libraries and should use temples from now on if we need culture.

As the capital is set to waste a lot shields by not short-rushing, I would now build a market as we soon will go all money.

Also change the barracks build in Faro to galley and finally grow this city by giving it the wheat.

And generally build galleys. Especially on the east coast, as we want to land in France soon.

There is no reason to stay at war with Ottoman, Russia and Arabia.

greatbeyond · Nov 16, 2008

klarius said:
Well, it looks to my that the Zulu have done most to destroy the Babs.
We should have declared on Zulus 3 turns into the turn-set when the alliance ran out.

This was what I was planning but the Zulu went to renegotiate 2 turns early, before the Alliance ran out. I checked this in Map Stat and it still showed 3 turns left. I tried to blow them off, but I would have had to DOW, and we probably would have lost at least one if not both the Arabian cities we just took. I was also worried that it would destroy our reputation before we wanted to.

As for the Babylonians, you are right. I didn't pay close enough attention to what was happening with them.

I did short rush some, but only where the left over shields was very minimal. I assumed that we didn't want to short rush and still lose shields. We have a boatload of cash and I would consider doing more cash rushing.

greatbeyond · Nov 16, 2008

Northern Pike said:
Can we afford to honour our peace treaty with the Zulus for another eight turns? Doing nothing for that length of time, in combination with the ten-turn penalty for the elimination of the Babs, might well doom us in the competition with other teams.
Ten turn penalty? How did we incur that/for what? I must have missed something. Or do you mean for the final score?

Edit: Cross-post with Vind. Yes, getting the Zulus to declare on us would obviously be the best solution. I don't see any of their units in our land at the moment, though.

There was an Impi in our territory and I tried to get the Zulu to DOW by demanding he leave. Lots of times, and I made unreasonable demands. I couldn't get him to DOW. Perhaps I missed some other way to get him mad

I hope the speed of our conquest will make up for the Babs being eliminated. Perhaps the next person should carefully examine how many cities each civ has left and gift those that are in danger of being eliminated. I just wish I'd though of that before I started.

Northern Pike · Nov 16, 2008

Yes, "ten-turn penalty" is just another way of expressing the relation final score = 10(number of surviving civs) - turns taken for domination win.

I'm glad you tried the right approach to getting the Zulus to declare against us. Possibly we were just too strong relative to them.

Vind2 · Nov 18, 2008

I don't mind playing 8 turns to even it out.

Any last words of wisdom before I play later today?

TheOverseer714 · Nov 18, 2008

Just make sure to gift the Zulu their trip to their retirement home before DoWing them. And build boats.

klarius · Nov 19, 2008

Well, I tried to communicate since some time that our reputation isn't worth much anyway.
But for future reference, it was anyway no problem. We had a peace deal (independent of alliance) with Zulu which ran out. You have to renew or declare at this point. Declare would have meant shoot reputation.
But, after you renew this peace deal w/o any other deal involved, breaking it does not kill your reputation though it shows several turns remaining on the deal.

greatbeyond · Nov 19, 2008

Thanks for the info Klarius. I wasn't sure how it would work out and didn't want to really screw up our rep in case we needed it to get ROP/MA agreements. I tend to try and keep my rep until the time comes for the end game ROP abuse, but once blown I don't worry about breaking all sorts of deals because it takes so long to get it back. I should have declared two turns later when our Cavalry was healed and in place. On the plus side is at the end of my turn I had Cavalry in place to quickly take out the Zulu in the south and NE.

Zulu have already been gifted their retirement home and I believe I labeled it as such.

Vind2 · Nov 19, 2008

Something has come up and I will be unable to play until tomorrow night, sorry for the delay

Northern Pike · Nov 19, 2008

No problem. Remember that you don't have to play all ten turns in one sitting.

Vind2 · Nov 20, 2008

Ok turnset=played

Nothing big, the next player will be in position to take atleast 1 of zulu's cities. MM is fair, workers are on the messy side. Do we need more carracks and I didn't do much diplo.

Spoiler :

OK... uploaded save, took me a try or two to name it corretly. Then I find out that it would have done it for me >: (

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm14/Klarius_SG014_AD0250_01.SAV

OK libs need changing to temples, capital needs short rushing.

We have carracks so we can trigger a GA if we want

Northern Pike · Nov 21, 2008

Vind2 said:
Notice that the ottos and russians are at war, going to move in peace keepers.

Alert play. :thumbsup:

Northern Pike · Nov 22, 2008

Klarius--UP
Elephantium
Northern Pike
Overseer
Rat
Great Beyond
Vind

ThERat · Nov 23, 2008

I can see that the other teams might have an issue keeping pace with our expansion as they might have chosen the non research route. I can see our culture way ahead, means they never built any libraries.
We need to be faster in order to make up for that Civ loss we had

Vind2 · Nov 24, 2008

As not to spam... Zulu are almost done and we have more than enough caracks to start invading our neighbors

TheOverseer714 · Nov 24, 2008

I think America would make a nice island for more retirement homes, it is close and mostly tundra. The French already have some small islands, so their main island can be all ours. I guess it doesn't really matter who gets it next, as they all will get their turn.

Northern Pike · Nov 24, 2008

Are you there, Klarius?

Northern Pike · Nov 26, 2008

Klarius is normally so reliable that if he's fallen silent for a week, he's probably dead. That's a joke, I hope. :rolleyes:

Anyway, we need to keep going; so, Elephantium, you don't have to play at any particular time, but assume that you're up and start putting together your ideas and questions.

The basic theme of the rest of the game is that we have to be advancing on several fronts at all times. We have to squeeze everything possible out of every turn--doing what feels like enough is not enough.

An outline of what we need to do in the next ten turns:

1. Before we hit Enter, we should upgrade our two remaining galleys, and the catapult and treb around Oporto. Then we should move MDI units towards the Carrack stack in Mecca, so that we can land at least eight of them next to Paris on the first turn of the next round. Waiting for our cavalry to finish their work in Zululand before we attack France is exactly the sort of thing we can't afford in this situation. If we lose a lot of the MDI, it doesn't matter; this is the last service they can render.

2. Reduce the Zulus to their refuge city.

3. Conquer the Inca island after gifting them a retirement home.

4. Land at Washington and conquer most or all of the American island, again after the gift of a refuge. We should assemble a fleet of at least four Carracks in our homeland (one is present, two will come from upgrades, the rest may have to be rushed), load it up on the oyster tile north of Oporto, and land next to Washington on the fourth turn of the next round at latest. The landing force should contain the four cannon we'll have available (probably the only use we'll get out of them) and a mix of MDI and cav.

5. It's vital too that we prepare our southern advance, even if we don't start attacking in that direction during the next player's round; so we should assemble at least three Carracks and nine cav around Babylon. This will involve a lot of expensive rushing, but that's fine, and doubly fine if we're in our GA. Gold just sitting in the vault doesn't help us trample the world underfoot.

6. If we can trigger our GA by attacking with a Carrack--ideally an unloaded one--we'll do it, of course. Once we're in the GA our cities will require more MM and shortrushing, not less, or the waste will be tremendous.

SGOTM 14 - klarius

Deity

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King

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Deity

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Overseer

... !

King

Woof?

Deity

Woof?

Deity

Deity

Deity

Woof?

Overseer

Deity

Deity

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