Mitchum
Deity
Good luck, bbp! I'm sneaking looks at CFC during my very important meeting in DC... 
SGOTM 14 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
shyuhe
Deity
Sorry guys, I've been really busy with other stuff lately and have had 0 time for civ 
Thanks for keeping the ball rolling bbp.
Thanks for keeping the ball rolling bbp.
Edit: nvm
Ok, I've played.
Monte came by demanding Lit. I posted quickly above for comments, but I don't have much time this morning to wait. In any case, refused. We're back down to +1 Cautious.
OB signed with Gandhi/Monte and a few more TR's in the bag.
I went with a different play in Ivory, 2pop whipping the LH. We're done barracks now, as a result, but slightly behind in growth. I think this was an ok move.
There's a barb galley between Panama and Pigs. Saw it last turn, but rolled anyway. The Pigs WB hasn't netted the clam yet, so I guess we have to retreat with it now. Comments on this welcome.
We got the Great Library and finished HBR this turn, with about 2t of full research left in cash and slightly less than 3t left in Construction. So, it should be 5t in self-research. Washington could finish barracks in 3t. Ivory is about 6t from stable.
No changes in the tech-trade screen, except for one team getting Calendar midway through the set.
Here is your Session Turn Log from 500 BC to 325 BC:
Monte came by demanding Lit. I posted quickly above for comments, but I don't have much time this morning to wait. In any case, refused. We're back down to +1 Cautious.
OB signed with Gandhi/Monte and a few more TR's in the bag.
I went with a different play in Ivory, 2pop whipping the LH. We're done barracks now, as a result, but slightly behind in growth. I think this was an ok move.
There's a barb galley between Panama and Pigs. Saw it last turn, but rolled anyway. The Pigs WB hasn't netted the clam yet, so I guess we have to retreat with it now. Comments on this welcome.
We got the Great Library and finished HBR this turn, with about 2t of full research left in cash and slightly less than 3t left in Construction. So, it should be 5t in self-research. Washington could finish barracks in 3t. Ivory is about 6t from stable.
No changes in the tech-trade screen, except for one team getting Calendar midway through the set.
Here is your Session Turn Log from 500 BC to 325 BC:
Spoiler :
We should able to finish our GP as follows: Pigs T+8, Gems T+15, Washington T+19. That guarantees Astro at 150 AD. If we pop a GS from Gems, we also get Engineering at that date. Pigs and Gems are done already. We just have to figure out when to hire in Washington exactly (I haven't planned that out).
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
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Great set, bbp! 
Hmmm, we don't have Metal Casting (for a Trireme), so a Barb Galley is a pain in the butt... we could whip a Galley but really we want 2 Galleys... if we defend with a single Galley and lose, all of a sudden we'll be facing a powerful Combat II Barb Galley survivor.
An alternative option to defending with our own Galleys, and an option which I much prefer, is to play "ring around the rosie," i.e. use a Work Boat (or a Galley but a Work Boat is cheaper) to infinitely lure a Barb Galley around... although our best bet is to lead it straight to an AI's lands and then once we get near some of the AI's Seafood, we simply hide our Work Boat inside of an AI's City and watch the Barb Galley pillage the AI's seafood Resources... muahahahha.
If you recall, we did exactly that to Ragnar's seafood last game.
I'm not 100% certain, but I think that the rule is that if a Barb Galley can reach your boat within 2 turns, it will chase your unit forever unless it gets "distracted." It could potentially be distracted by a different boat or a Netted seafood Resource.
So, I'm not sure what the current situation looks like, but if we have a Work Boat (or get one) in Pigs City, then, if the Barb Galley ends up heading to the north along our coastline, we can probably use the luring tactic.
In particular, we would want our Work Boat to end its turn being 3 (preferably 4) movement points away from the Barb Galley. Watch out because the Barb Galleys WILL cut corners, so you'll need to do so, too, in your luring.
The idea would be that if the Barb Galley ends up being 2N of Pig City's Clam (1NW of the northernmost GFor Silk), 3N of Pig City's Clam (3W of Ivory City's Fish), or even NE + N + N of there (i.e. 2W of Ivory City's Fish), then we can move our Work Boat from out of Pigs City going NW, W, ending up 2W of the GPig and SW of Pigs City's Clam. The Barb Galley should chase our Work Boat.
I'm not sure if our Work Boat is built yet or not, but assuming that it is, we're in good shape, as we can move our Work Boat out at the perfect time to lure the Barb Galley away from Ivory City's Fish Resource.
If there is a Work Boat to chase, the Barb Galley should ignore Ivory City's netted Fish Resource as long as the Barb Galley isn't 1 square away from or on top of the Fish Resource itself, if I correctly recall how Barb Galleys work.
We'll obviously want a new Work Boat, so I guess Pigs City (or another City) should start to build a new Work Boat for Pigs City's Clam, while our Pigs City's existing Work Boat works its way SW, then west, then north, i.e. down our spoke to the centre of the map then up the neighbouring AI's spoke (the AI immediately to our west).
Again, the trickiest part to watch for will be that the Barb Galley can cut corners, so you need to use the most efficient movement path possible to avoid having the Barb Galley "catch up" to you, which would, of course, be fatal for our Work Boat.
As for tech demands... I think that you made the right call, given that the team's overall opinion seems to be in favour of turning down demands.
My personal take is that if we see more demands, we should give in to a demand if:
a) we are not going to go to war with that AI in the next 10 turns
AND
b) it is for a non-military tech
In the last couple of XOTMs that I played, I started getting cocky and refused AI demands and then later regretted it when wars were called on their terms instead of my terms. I'd much rather only be fighting 1 AI team at a time. Even an AI going into "war build-up mode" is a bad thing, as they'll have far more units than they otherwise would have had.
It's all about passifying the AIs and keeping them unsuspecting of our plans of taking them down. If we continue to refuse demands, one of the AIs might choose to go on alert and start spamming an army... even if they don't end up declaring war, victory will thus become harder.
I'm not sure that my opinion on the matter really reflects the opinion of the rest of the team, though, or whether what I just said is sufficient persuasion to convince anyone else to side with my approach to giving into demands.
As for Resources, I would immediately give into a demand for one (it's totally free reputation points, since they only demand Resources that you already have an extra copy of) except in the case where we were about to declare war on said AI team within the next 10 turns.
I'm not sure what our tech-trading bait is going to be for Calendar, but we could potentially wait until we get Compass before trading for it. Calendar does allow us to improve our Silk Resources (which aren't top tier Calendar Resources but are still pretty decent), but I'm not sure that we have the Worker turns for doing so anyway, thus there may not be a rush to get said tech, especially if getting it would require us to give away one or both of Construction and/or Horseback Riding.
Arguably, giving away Compass would let an AI get to Caravels faster, but we probably won't see AI Galleons for quite a long time, so I'm not sure that we care all that much if they start fielding Caravels. I guess that Caravels could be annoying but if we're using Galleon warfare, we'll probably declare war and land troops on the first turn of each war, meaning that any lucky Caravels that attack and sink a Galleon will not make us lose troops, thus AIs getting to Caravels probably won't be a major problem for us.
EDIT: Obviously, if you can get Calendar for other techs (non-Currency and non-military) like Aesthetics or whatever, we will definitely want to take said trade, but otherwise, we have sufficient Happiness Resources that getting Calendar isn't a major rush, I think.
Hmmm, we don't have Metal Casting (for a Trireme), so a Barb Galley is a pain in the butt... we could whip a Galley but really we want 2 Galleys... if we defend with a single Galley and lose, all of a sudden we'll be facing a powerful Combat II Barb Galley survivor.
An alternative option to defending with our own Galleys, and an option which I much prefer, is to play "ring around the rosie," i.e. use a Work Boat (or a Galley but a Work Boat is cheaper) to infinitely lure a Barb Galley around... although our best bet is to lead it straight to an AI's lands and then once we get near some of the AI's Seafood, we simply hide our Work Boat inside of an AI's City and watch the Barb Galley pillage the AI's seafood Resources... muahahahha.
If you recall, we did exactly that to Ragnar's seafood last game.
I'm not 100% certain, but I think that the rule is that if a Barb Galley can reach your boat within 2 turns, it will chase your unit forever unless it gets "distracted." It could potentially be distracted by a different boat or a Netted seafood Resource.
So, I'm not sure what the current situation looks like, but if we have a Work Boat (or get one) in Pigs City, then, if the Barb Galley ends up heading to the north along our coastline, we can probably use the luring tactic.
In particular, we would want our Work Boat to end its turn being 3 (preferably 4) movement points away from the Barb Galley. Watch out because the Barb Galleys WILL cut corners, so you'll need to do so, too, in your luring.
The idea would be that if the Barb Galley ends up being 2N of Pig City's Clam (1NW of the northernmost GFor Silk), 3N of Pig City's Clam (3W of Ivory City's Fish), or even NE + N + N of there (i.e. 2W of Ivory City's Fish), then we can move our Work Boat from out of Pigs City going NW, W, ending up 2W of the GPig and SW of Pigs City's Clam. The Barb Galley should chase our Work Boat.
I'm not sure if our Work Boat is built yet or not, but assuming that it is, we're in good shape, as we can move our Work Boat out at the perfect time to lure the Barb Galley away from Ivory City's Fish Resource.
If there is a Work Boat to chase, the Barb Galley should ignore Ivory City's netted Fish Resource as long as the Barb Galley isn't 1 square away from or on top of the Fish Resource itself, if I correctly recall how Barb Galleys work.
We'll obviously want a new Work Boat, so I guess Pigs City (or another City) should start to build a new Work Boat for Pigs City's Clam, while our Pigs City's existing Work Boat works its way SW, then west, then north, i.e. down our spoke to the centre of the map then up the neighbouring AI's spoke (the AI immediately to our west).
Again, the trickiest part to watch for will be that the Barb Galley can cut corners, so you need to use the most efficient movement path possible to avoid having the Barb Galley "catch up" to you, which would, of course, be fatal for our Work Boat.
As for tech demands... I think that you made the right call, given that the team's overall opinion seems to be in favour of turning down demands.
My personal take is that if we see more demands, we should give in to a demand if:
a) we are not going to go to war with that AI in the next 10 turns
AND
b) it is for a non-military tech
In the last couple of XOTMs that I played, I started getting cocky and refused AI demands and then later regretted it when wars were called on their terms instead of my terms. I'd much rather only be fighting 1 AI team at a time. Even an AI going into "war build-up mode" is a bad thing, as they'll have far more units than they otherwise would have had.
It's all about passifying the AIs and keeping them unsuspecting of our plans of taking them down. If we continue to refuse demands, one of the AIs might choose to go on alert and start spamming an army... even if they don't end up declaring war, victory will thus become harder.
I'm not sure that my opinion on the matter really reflects the opinion of the rest of the team, though, or whether what I just said is sufficient persuasion to convince anyone else to side with my approach to giving into demands.
As for Resources, I would immediately give into a demand for one (it's totally free reputation points, since they only demand Resources that you already have an extra copy of) except in the case where we were about to declare war on said AI team within the next 10 turns.
Hmmm, I just re-read that part... are you saying that our Work Boat is on top of the Clam? If so, then yes, we would want to retreat into Pigs City (as long as the Barb Galley doesn't block us from doing so). If the Barb Galley blocks us, we'll just have to try and lure it toward the north then toward the north-west where our land area connects up with the AI-to-the-west's area, but doing so risks putting the Barb Galley near enough to our Ivory Fish net to have the Fish pillaged. Thus, ideally, you'll be able to "hide" back in Pigs City, wait until the Barb Galley goes far enough to the north (as I explained above) that you can safely leave Pigs City without the Barb Galley killing you, then lure the Barb Galley toward the centre of the map and then up the western AI's spoke.
I'm not sure what our tech-trading bait is going to be for Calendar, but we could potentially wait until we get Compass before trading for it. Calendar does allow us to improve our Silk Resources (which aren't top tier Calendar Resources but are still pretty decent), but I'm not sure that we have the Worker turns for doing so anyway, thus there may not be a rush to get said tech, especially if getting it would require us to give away one or both of Construction and/or Horseback Riding.
Arguably, giving away Compass would let an AI get to Caravels faster, but we probably won't see AI Galleons for quite a long time, so I'm not sure that we care all that much if they start fielding Caravels. I guess that Caravels could be annoying but if we're using Galleon warfare, we'll probably declare war and land troops on the first turn of each war, meaning that any lucky Caravels that attack and sink a Galleon will not make us lose troops, thus AIs getting to Caravels probably won't be a major problem for us.
EDIT: Obviously, if you can get Calendar for other techs (non-Currency and non-military) like Aesthetics or whatever, we will definitely want to take said trade, but otherwise, we have sufficient Happiness Resources that getting Calendar isn't a major rush, I think.
I'll post some screenies for you tmr. Too busy right now. Test game update will have to wait a bit, too.
Yes, the WB is on the clam and yet to move this turn. Interesting about making the galley chase. We could do that, but this all will slow down Pigs a bit no matter what we do.
Calendar isn't available for trade yet (only one team has it), so that discussion's moot. We'll see what happens later.
Demand refusal: ZPV said that Monte's MM. We already had +1 for trade, and I figure we're fine for trading after the refusal and then some. I kinda want that team researching stuff we need to trade for, rather than wasting time on something like Music.
Yes, the WB is on the clam and yet to move this turn. Interesting about making the galley chase. We could do that, but this all will slow down Pigs a bit no matter what we do.
Calendar isn't available for trade yet (only one team has it), so that discussion's moot. We'll see what happens later.
Demand refusal: ZPV said that Monte's MM. We already had +1 for trade, and I figure we're fine for trading after the refusal and then some. I kinda want that team researching stuff we need to trade for, rather than wasting time on something like Music.
Am I continuing on? Seems no one's around right now. I'm kinda busy these days, too, but I think I can play through Construction and a bit. It's still fairly straightforward. Unless a few of you expect to be available relatively soon and it's worth putting the game temporarily on hold?
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
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Well that's good to hear. Better than a real Monte (or a Cathy, Shaka, Khan, etc who will take the refusal very personally).
Sure, that's a good point, too. Do we currently have a Literature monopoly? If yes, then we probably want to keep it for as long as possible for the very reason that you mentioned--discouraging AI teams from chasing after Music.
The worst thing that could happen is all 4 AI teams chase after it and then 3 of them immediately switch when the fourth one learns it, meaning that a lot of AI research would have been diverted without us even being able to get said tech in trade, as it would remain monopoly knowledge for the first team that learned it.
I did notice that one of the "AIs of the east" revolted into Hereditary Rule... hopefully, we'll still be able to beat them to Feudalism before our first attack is ready.
If we don't beat them but the AIs of the north don't have Feudalism, maybe we'd change our attack plans? Probably not, due to distance, but having the chance to fight versus a few Archers might just be worth the extra trek. Well, we'll cross that bridge as we get closer to that point of the game.
Yeah, I'm pretty convinced that we want to use the Barb-Galley-luring tactic. Whipping 1 or 2 of our own Galleys would slow us down a lot further than having to manually build an extra Work Boat would.
I'm fine with you going on. Do you think that the test game that you used previously is close enough for you to practice for a bit to get a feel for what you're doing? Obviously, if we don't have an exact test game, there's little point in making a detailed (and thus likely to be inaccurate) PPP--for example the whipping timing change of the Lighthouse will throw things off by a bit--but I figure that you should at least run through a practice run or two just to get a feel for what you might do and so that you'll have something to throw up as a PPP.
At this point, it's clear that if you want to keep carrying the torch, others will let you. No one will feel disappointed if you don't have the time to do so, though, as you've already put in some good sets. It's your call, but I don't foresee anyone challenging you for the role of playing forward, at least not for a few days until someone else becomes available.
Here's the updated test game. I'm somehow 1h short in Silver and some 30b high on Construction, but it's should be good enough.
GPP plan:
Pigs and Gems keep running 2 Sci until they pop their GP's. Washington needs to hire the two on T+4, in order to meet the T+19 timeline I described. Pretty easy.
Pigs and Gems keep running 2 Sci until they pop their GP's. Washington needs to hire the two on T+4, in order to meet the T+19 timeline I described. Pretty easy.
Cities:
Diplo:
Barb galley:
WB:
Scout:
Spoiler :
Diplo:
Spoiler :
Barb galley:
Spoiler :
WB:
Spoiler :
Scout:
Spoiler :
Pigs: I had intended to whip the worker for 2pop at high OF and regrow quickly on the 3 food tiles. Now I guess we need another WB and won't have access to the clam for a bit. I'll have to think about the best way to proceed there.
We need to really think about galley production, if you guys really want a quick strike against Asoka. Astro is due in about 20t, and we are still pretty far from producing a stack. Gems needs to keep running those Sci for another 15t, so it's largely useless. Pigs is the third best production city and already stagnating a bit. That really only leaves Panama as a viable galley-whipper in the short term. Also Bridge after a little bit. Marble is so poor, that I'd prefer just running Sci. Also, further libraries (Panama, Silver) could cut down Astro/Eng by a turn, but aren't necessarily needed.
I'm rambling a bit. Have to think more carefully about how to proceed from here.
We need to really think about galley production, if you guys really want a quick strike against Asoka. Astro is due in about 20t, and we are still pretty far from producing a stack. Gems needs to keep running those Sci for another 15t, so it's largely useless. Pigs is the third best production city and already stagnating a bit. That really only leaves Panama as a viable galley-whipper in the short term. Also Bridge after a little bit. Marble is so poor, that I'd prefer just running Sci. Also, further libraries (Panama, Silver) could cut down Astro/Eng by a turn, but aren't necessarily needed.
I'm rambling a bit. Have to think more carefully about how to proceed from here.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
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Thanks for the screenshots. They are really helpful! 
Your GPP plan sounds like it is simple yet effective.
There sure are a lot of AI units wandering around in the middle of the map that our Scout keeps meeting. Have you ever had to backtrack after running into a Barb unit?
As for our Work Boat explorer, do we have trade routes with the light-purple-coloured Indian Empire and that's why we are heading west again?
As for the Barb Galley... oooohhh, that's a toughy. It seems like it is actually chasing the purple players's Work Boat (is that the same Indian of the west's boat?). It could be that no matter what you do, the Barb Galley will continue to chase the AI's Work Boat... which could work out fine for us but could also be trouble for us, depending upon where the AI's Work Boat goes.
Right now, I see two luring options:
a) Stay where our Work Boat is for one turn and then try and lead the Barb Galley toward the north and then north-west. We'll only be 1 movement point ahead of the Barb Galley, though, so you'll have to cut corners as precisely as possible and will have to watch out for the Barb Galley potentially catching up to you. You should probably look at more of the map to the north and west of Ivory City just to make sure that you know where to send the Work Boat in advance in order to keep our Work Boat alive.
OR
b) Hide in Pigs City as I suggested and then wait for the Barb Galley to move:
i. N, NE (NW + W of Pigs City)
ii. NE, N (1N of Pigs City's Clam)
iii. N, NE (2W of Ivory City's Fish)
and then on that turn, move our Work Boat out of Pigs City NW, W (2W of the GPig) in the hopes that the Barb Galley will either start chasing us instead of the AI Work Boat or else will ignore us and will follow the AI Work Boat to a hopefully safe area.
Oh no, wait, potentially scratch all of that... the Barb Galley, as long as we don't Open Borders with the owner of the AI Work Boat, then the AI Work Boat will be trapped and will die. If that happens, then we'll definitely use option b) but we'll have a greater chance of our Work Boat being the one to lure the Barb Galley around instead of needing to decide to chase us or the AI's Work Boat.
If we don't have Open Borders, then it might be best just to let that AI Work Boat die while our Work Boat moves 1N of the Clam. Then, if the Barb Galley kills the AI's Work Boat, we can move our Work Boat further 1N and then can lure the Barb Galley to the north and then north-west back toward the "AIs of the north" with no fear of the Barb Galley going after our Ivory City's Fish Resource.
If we do have Open Borders with said AI, then you'll have to pick between options a) and b) but I'm not sure if the Barb Galley will actually switch targets so I'm not even sure that doing so would matter.
I mean, we could also just hope that the AI's Work Boat, if we have Open Borders, will just keep luring the Barb Galley into sailing on past, in which case our Work Boat would just be best off hiding and then netting the Clam when the threat has passed... there is the small risk that the Barb Galley will get lured onto Ivory City's Fish or Silver City's Fish, though.
Also, if we don't have Open Borders, we could let the AI's Work Boat die while hiding our Work Boat in Pigs City and just hope that the Barb Galley sails away on its own to the south-west. I don't THINK that that situation will be possible, though, since our Fish Resource has been probably netted for 10 or more turns and is exactly 7 turns away from where the AI's Work Boat would die... 7 turns is within "Barb homing range" for a Barb Work Boat "seeing" a seafood net that has been around for 10+ turns.
As for the Diplo, there are a lot of Worst Enemies out there, so we'll probably continue to take diplo hits for maintaining Open Borders with someone's Worst Enemy and then refusing to stop trading with said Worst Enemy when asked. I guess that there's not much that we can do about it, though.
For Pigs City, we could consider interrupting the Worker with a Work Boat and then whipping the Work Boat when we are 7 Food away from growth (test that in a test game, but I think that that amount will work)... i.e. 4 Food per turn now but with 1 less person (remember to rehire the 2nd Scientist after whipping), we'll be up to +5 Food per turn and will need 2 less Food to grow to the next City Size, i.e. 5 + 2 = 7, but check it in a test game.
What's the story with Stone City? Is the idea to grow while manually completing the Library, so that we'll be at Size 7, able to hire 2 Scientists, still work all of the existing squares that we are working, and remain at +1 Food? If so, we can probably skip a Lighthouse and a Barracks and just pump out a Catapult, Axeman, Galley or two before starting on a Lighthouse.
I'm not sure what the Workers are up to, but if we have 2 of them Mining the GH square 1W of Ivory City, perhaps one of them could stop Mining this turn and could move 1WN onto the other GH square and either Road it (so that both Workers can Mine it) or else just straight-up Mine it and skip Road-building such that the other Worker will go elsewhere... that's if I'm right in my understanding that there are presently 2 Workers 1W of Ivory City on the GH there.
Silver City WOULD be very nice with a Lighthouse, but after the Granary is done (I'd whip it when we're at Size 4 with about a 40% to 50% full Foodbox if we can afford to stop working the Silver for a couple of turns, which I think that we can) and then work on whatever other miltary unit that we can build to help contribute to the first war--probably a Galley. The Lighthouse can come after a Galley or two are whipped.
Bridge City--just remember to switch the PFor to a Grassland square once the Forest has been Chopped and then to the GH Mine 2N of there once the GH has been Mined.
Your GPP plan sounds like it is simple yet effective.
There sure are a lot of AI units wandering around in the middle of the map that our Scout keeps meeting. Have you ever had to backtrack after running into a Barb unit?
As for our Work Boat explorer, do we have trade routes with the light-purple-coloured Indian Empire and that's why we are heading west again?
As for the Barb Galley... oooohhh, that's a toughy. It seems like it is actually chasing the purple players's Work Boat (is that the same Indian of the west's boat?). It could be that no matter what you do, the Barb Galley will continue to chase the AI's Work Boat... which could work out fine for us but could also be trouble for us, depending upon where the AI's Work Boat goes.
Right now, I see two luring options:
a) Stay where our Work Boat is for one turn and then try and lead the Barb Galley toward the north and then north-west. We'll only be 1 movement point ahead of the Barb Galley, though, so you'll have to cut corners as precisely as possible and will have to watch out for the Barb Galley potentially catching up to you. You should probably look at more of the map to the north and west of Ivory City just to make sure that you know where to send the Work Boat in advance in order to keep our Work Boat alive.
OR
b) Hide in Pigs City as I suggested and then wait for the Barb Galley to move:
i. N, NE (NW + W of Pigs City)
ii. NE, N (1N of Pigs City's Clam)
iii. N, NE (2W of Ivory City's Fish)
and then on that turn, move our Work Boat out of Pigs City NW, W (2W of the GPig) in the hopes that the Barb Galley will either start chasing us instead of the AI Work Boat or else will ignore us and will follow the AI Work Boat to a hopefully safe area.
Oh no, wait, potentially scratch all of that... the Barb Galley, as long as we don't Open Borders with the owner of the AI Work Boat, then the AI Work Boat will be trapped and will die. If that happens, then we'll definitely use option b) but we'll have a greater chance of our Work Boat being the one to lure the Barb Galley around instead of needing to decide to chase us or the AI's Work Boat.
If we don't have Open Borders, then it might be best just to let that AI Work Boat die while our Work Boat moves 1N of the Clam. Then, if the Barb Galley kills the AI's Work Boat, we can move our Work Boat further 1N and then can lure the Barb Galley to the north and then north-west back toward the "AIs of the north" with no fear of the Barb Galley going after our Ivory City's Fish Resource.
If we do have Open Borders with said AI, then you'll have to pick between options a) and b) but I'm not sure if the Barb Galley will actually switch targets so I'm not even sure that doing so would matter.
I mean, we could also just hope that the AI's Work Boat, if we have Open Borders, will just keep luring the Barb Galley into sailing on past, in which case our Work Boat would just be best off hiding and then netting the Clam when the threat has passed... there is the small risk that the Barb Galley will get lured onto Ivory City's Fish or Silver City's Fish, though.
Also, if we don't have Open Borders, we could let the AI's Work Boat die while hiding our Work Boat in Pigs City and just hope that the Barb Galley sails away on its own to the south-west. I don't THINK that that situation will be possible, though, since our Fish Resource has been probably netted for 10 or more turns and is exactly 7 turns away from where the AI's Work Boat would die... 7 turns is within "Barb homing range" for a Barb Work Boat "seeing" a seafood net that has been around for 10+ turns.
As for the Diplo, there are a lot of Worst Enemies out there, so we'll probably continue to take diplo hits for maintaining Open Borders with someone's Worst Enemy and then refusing to stop trading with said Worst Enemy when asked. I guess that there's not much that we can do about it, though.
For Pigs City, we could consider interrupting the Worker with a Work Boat and then whipping the Work Boat when we are 7 Food away from growth (test that in a test game, but I think that that amount will work)... i.e. 4 Food per turn now but with 1 less person (remember to rehire the 2nd Scientist after whipping), we'll be up to +5 Food per turn and will need 2 less Food to grow to the next City Size, i.e. 5 + 2 = 7, but check it in a test game.
What's the story with Stone City? Is the idea to grow while manually completing the Library, so that we'll be at Size 7, able to hire 2 Scientists, still work all of the existing squares that we are working, and remain at +1 Food? If so, we can probably skip a Lighthouse and a Barracks and just pump out a Catapult, Axeman, Galley or two before starting on a Lighthouse.
I'm not sure what the Workers are up to, but if we have 2 of them Mining the GH square 1W of Ivory City, perhaps one of them could stop Mining this turn and could move 1WN onto the other GH square and either Road it (so that both Workers can Mine it) or else just straight-up Mine it and skip Road-building such that the other Worker will go elsewhere... that's if I'm right in my understanding that there are presently 2 Workers 1W of Ivory City on the GH there.
Silver City WOULD be very nice with a Lighthouse, but after the Granary is done (I'd whip it when we're at Size 4 with about a 40% to 50% full Foodbox if we can afford to stop working the Silver for a couple of turns, which I think that we can) and then work on whatever other miltary unit that we can build to help contribute to the first war--probably a Galley. The Lighthouse can come after a Galley or two are whipped.
Bridge City--just remember to switch the PFor to a Grassland square once the Forest has been Chopped and then to the GH Mine 2N of there once the GH has been Mined.
Dhoomstriker
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After Granaries that are in progress, a Monument then a Granary in Bridge City, and a Stable in Ivory City, and probably the Barracks in Washington, we can probably stop building any further buildings until we have raised our army.
Forget Lighthouses or additional Libraries beyond the ones that are already in progress (i.e. finish off Stone City's Library).
I'm even going to tell Marble City to "stuff it" with building a Lighthouse and instead put those Hammers into something else, such as a Catapult. It's all about the short term right now and a Lighthouse there, with us only working 1 Coast square (the Clam/Crab, whatever it is), the Lighthouse will not pay off in the short term.
Washington can finish the Barracks but then should switch to units. We only need the 1 Stable. We also don't need Barracks anywhere besides Ivory City and Washington.
We need quantity, not quality, right now: think "SHORT TERM, SHORT TERM, SHORT TERM!"
I am even tempted to tell you to skip the Barracks in Washington, but since we have so many Hammers being produced there, we might as well complete its Barracks (but not its Stable). Get an Axeman or War Elephant to defend our 5-XP-War-Elephant that gets produced out of Ivory City and then we can send those 2 units at the Barb City, either by land or by Galley if you think that the waters are safe enough from Barb Galleys.
Short term, short term, short term... we really want to try and hit the first AI pre-Feudalism, and even if we don't, we might find a City with only 1 upgraded Longbowman or else with recently-upgraded Longbowmen which thereby don't have their Fortification bonuses.
Forget Lighthouses or additional Libraries beyond the ones that are already in progress (i.e. finish off Stone City's Library).
I'm even going to tell Marble City to "stuff it" with building a Lighthouse and instead put those Hammers into something else, such as a Catapult. It's all about the short term right now and a Lighthouse there, with us only working 1 Coast square (the Clam/Crab, whatever it is), the Lighthouse will not pay off in the short term.
Washington can finish the Barracks but then should switch to units. We only need the 1 Stable. We also don't need Barracks anywhere besides Ivory City and Washington.
We need quantity, not quality, right now: think "SHORT TERM, SHORT TERM, SHORT TERM!"
I am even tempted to tell you to skip the Barracks in Washington, but since we have so many Hammers being produced there, we might as well complete its Barracks (but not its Stable). Get an Axeman or War Elephant to defend our 5-XP-War-Elephant that gets produced out of Ivory City and then we can send those 2 units at the Barb City, either by land or by Galley if you think that the waters are safe enough from Barb Galleys.
Short term, short term, short term... we really want to try and hit the first AI pre-Feudalism, and even if we don't, we might find a City with only 1 upgraded Longbowman or else with recently-upgraded Longbowmen which thereby don't have their Fortification bonuses.
Panama City still needs a border pop and we still need 2 more (Panama+Bridge) WB's after the current one being built in Gems. The idea for Panama came from LC, who suggested skipping a monument in favour of Gran-Lib. We could do a monument instead now? We'll also probably need another WB now, because of the barb situation. Otherwise, I'll agree that nothing is truly essential. Extra libraries are obviously nice, with Rep and a lot of food, but we can live without.
Stone City: yes, that was the rough idea.
Let me try playing around with this and see how far we can get towards the early stack.
We have TR's with Gandhi, yes. WB is now continuing the circle counter-clockwise. What should the scout do at this point? It met the last AI team, which was the primary objective. Now it should presumably search for the Wizard, but I'm not sure how to go about that. Initially I kinda expected that the Wiz may be opposite us (in the SW corner), but now it seems to me like there isn't enough room on the map for an extra spoke.
Stone City: yes, that was the rough idea.
Let me try playing around with this and see how far we can get towards the early stack.
We have TR's with Gandhi, yes. WB is now continuing the circle counter-clockwise. What should the scout do at this point? It met the last AI team, which was the primary objective. Now it should presumably search for the Wizard, but I'm not sure how to go about that. Initially I kinda expected that the Wiz may be opposite us (in the SW corner), but now it seems to me like there isn't enough room on the map for an extra spoke.
Dhoomstriker
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Uhhh, there wasn't a picture of Panama City in your latest set. Out of sight, out of mind...
Let me go and look at your previous screenshot...Hmmm, Panama City gains a Claim IF we build a Monument/Library AND a Work Boat. Those items lead to too long term of thinking! Forget them! We can get said things in the future after we have our army. In fact, besides the Clam, which is too long term of an investment to get worked now, no other immediately useful square becomes enabled by expanding our borders there. Even the Clam won't be amazing sine we won't have time to build a Lighthouse.
Panama City should hopefully not be in danger of dying due to our Maginot Line plus getting War Elephants there soon.
We should get Libraries eventually but for now we can live without them. Representation will be around for a long time but our window of opportunity to attack pre-Feudalism is quickly dwindling. Also, as I said, even if the AIs get Feudalism, we still have that window just after Feudalism arrives and before the upgraded Archers get a chance to fully refortify.
Stone City: yes, that was the rough idea.
Let me try playing around with this and see how far we can get towards the early stack.
Okay, well I gave a few suggestions as to what to do with said situation. What you could try doing--forget about the exact dates of it--is just to set up a Barb Galley and an AI Work Boat (you'll have to change the AI Work Boat's mission by editing the unit to SEA_AI_EXPLORE or something along those lines, if I recall correctly, to avoid the AI's Work Boat just sitting around)... put the Barb Galley and Work Boat a few squares to the SW of our position in an "alternate timeline" test game (a test game where you don't care about what the Cities do) and see if you can get it so that the Barb Galley chases the AI Work Boat. If you can get said situation set up, such that the AI's Work Boat and the Barb Galley arrive at the same locations as they are in in the test game, with one chasing the other, then you should have the perfect conditions to test how some of my suggestions might play out.
You lost me... are you saying that Pigs City's Clam Work Boat will try to lure the Barb Galley by heading toward the north and then north-west or are you saying something else?
As I said, it would be worth testing to see if, once a Barb Galley starts chasing an AI's Work Boat, whether or not it can pick a new target and come after us or if we might be better off just hiding in Pigs City and waiting for the AI Work Boat and Barb Galley to simply said past us.
Of course, even if the Barb Galley will continually chase after the AI Work Boat, there is also the possibility that the AI Work Boat will move toward Ivory City and will get trapped and killed there... if said things happens, it would be nice to have our own Work Boat lure nearby to hopefully pick up the slack... which, could potentially have hidden in Pigs City and then went north following the Barb Galley at a safe distance in case the Barb Galley does manage to corner the AI Work Boat and kill it. Obviously, then, if the AI Work Boat didn't die, then we could just turn our Work Boat around and net the Clam a few turns later than planned.
Basically, there are a lot of possibilities for what to do with our Work Boat and playing around with a test game where you manage to recreate similar conditions is probably our best way of figuring out which one to pick.
Try to find the Wizard and/or map out the lands of the western and southern AIs. Those AIs will be the hardest to map out since they are so far from us, so said intelligence will be valuable to us in planning our future attacks.
We already know that we'll attack the AIs from the east and almost certainly will attack the AIs from the north. I think that it was LC that said that we'd try to attack only 5 AIs, meaning that we'll want to see the western and southern AIs' Cities, to see which of those 4 AIs is the best one to attack, based on geography, strategic Resources, and defenders in their Cities.
Obviously, over time, the number of defenders in Cities will change, but if you can mark down on the map signs that show what you saw in said Cities when you passed them, it would be helpful... an AI that uses 5 Longbowmen per City versus an AI that uses 2 Longbowmen per City makes for a clearer distinction in who we might later attack.
Yeah, I have no clue either as HOW to search for the Wizard... maybe just don't worry about it... we can always get maps from the AIs later, but what the maps WON'T tell us is how many defenders there are in each of the AIs' Cities... thus, we should probably just make it a priority to scout the western and southern AIs' Cities while marking down signs of what sort of defenders we see... that task is actually a very useful one for the Scout to perform. The Scout then also becomes far less vulnerable to Barb units and can go back to moving its full 2 movement points in AI territory (in many cases over Roads).
That all makes sense, Dhoom. After playing around a bit, I'm convinced we wanna cut out infra and just build up. If I do that, I can get 7 WE (4 promo), 1 Axe (promo), 4 Cat (3 promo), 6 Galley by 50 AD. The logistics of going for the barb city and then for Asoka are very tricky, though. It's a lot of movement points. Our workers are quite busy without extra roads. By this date, I have 3 galleys with 2 cats and 3 WE loaded south of Bridge City, but other units trailing. And that's with a very easy barb capture.
On the other hand, our research is very fast now. Despite the fact our commerce is low in the test game (less international TR and I think more maintenance), I can get Astro by 75 AD, if we can get the 55% GS and trade for MC and Calendar. That's a big if, ofc, esp MC. We want it by the time we're done Construction-Compass and no later. We can perhaps delay Compass by 2-3t, going 0% all the way and saving cash for the Optics run, but there's not much more to be done. We'll need an AI team to come through.
On the other hand, our research is very fast now. Despite the fact our commerce is low in the test game (less international TR and I think more maintenance), I can get Astro by 75 AD, if we can get the 55% GS and trade for MC and Calendar. That's a big if, ofc, esp MC. We want it by the time we're done Construction-Compass and no later. We can perhaps delay Compass by 2-3t, going 0% all the way and saving cash for the Optics run, but there's not much more to be done. We'll need an AI team to come through.
I was thinking we go into total war mode and probably run PS after Astro. What are the libraries and Rep for?
In that quote, I'm talking about our explorer WB. I haven't really thought about the barb galley issue yet.
Your scout suggestion makes sense.
I'll put together a preliminary draft PPP for the next 10t tonight or tmr morning. I started it just now, but have to run to work.
