SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika

[Manco Capac]

Poke.

 

[shulec]

Healing with C1 before or after combat gets the same increase to final HP, but healing before gives better odds of being healthy after combat.

I always thought that healing gave you half of the missing HP rounded down, not a constant number.

 

[Manco Capac]

Those problems with the forum are problematic.

Anyways, I guess I have to promote the warrior and then attack. shulec, you nod to this and I surrender. I have to continue before the forum is taken down once again.

 

[mabraham]

^
Regarding the lion, you sure we will still gain 2 XP's. That was the bait. I thought around 95% was fine for you.

In the abstract 95% is fine, if it's just a random scout. However Amundsen is finding out whether Toku is settling our precious site, and fogbusting(!) for when we settle whatever we do. His info is very important.

I don't care about the XPs because we can't get to 5XP. We'd get 2XP if we attacked without an upgrade, and 1XP with. The latter comes with a 5% higher chance of still being alive and ready sooner for a future combat against the lurking menagerie - and now getting 2XP becomes an important consideration.

 

[Manco Capac]

In the abstract 95% is fine, if it's just a random scout. However Amundsen is finding out whether Toku is settling our precious site, and fogbusting(!) for when we settle whatever we do. His info is very important.

I don't care about the XPs because we can't get to 5XP. We'd get 2XP if we attacked without an upgrade, and 1XP with. The latter comes with a 5% higher chance of still being alive and ready sooner for a future combat against the lurking menagerie - and now getting 2XP becomes an important consideration.

Okay, good justification. Indeed, we have nowhere to explore for now.
And if ever the odds are 99.2 and lower, it's still 2XP. Okay I add the the combat promo.

My thinking process and justification was along the lines of getting 10 XP's unit to unlock HE if ever war was about to be the only solution to win. RL DV first, otherwise conquest/domination.

 

[mabraham]

I always thought that healing gave you half of the missing XP rounded down, not a constant number.

True, promotion-healing does this. Thanks! See http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=157954. So that makes the trade-off less clear. Delaying the promotion causes more damage, but heals half of it back. We heal half of the existing damage regardless of when we promote. Still sounds like a win for promotion before combat, even if C1 didn't increase our multiplier.

 

[shulec]

True, promotion-healing does this. Thanks! See http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=157954. So that makes the trade-off less clear. Delaying the promotion causes more damage, but heals half of it back. We heal half of the existing damage regardless of when we promote. Still sounds like a win for promotion before combat, even if C1 didn't increase our multiplier.

I agree since we have a safe 'out' after combat.

 

[Manco Capac]

True, promotion-healing does this. Thanks! See http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=157954. So that makes the trade-off less clear. Delaying the promotion causes more damage, but heals half of it back. We heal half of the existing damage regardless of when we promote. Still sounds like a win for promotion before combat, even if C1 didn't increase our multiplier.

Oh..Ah. That is why you never considered promo after. That was another reason I wanted the promo after.

Of course, we promote the warrior after.

--------------------------------------------------

Not sure now; all hail to combat I or not.

 

[shulec]

Combat 1. Conservative is the way to go with this. There is minimal strategic benefit that quick heal has over a slow heal in cultural borders.

 

[Manco Capac]

Combat 1. Conservative is the way to go with this. There is minimal strategic benefit that quick heal has over a slow heal in cultural borders.

Okay.

Oh yeah, we still get under 99%. 2XP's. Shame I couldn't test because the game was open.

EDIT: Sometimes, I don't understand odds and this is not the first time. I know by fact under 99% is definitely 2XP's. I had something 98,3? %.
I got 1 XP. Weird. But we are lowly damaged.

 

[Manco Capac]

T33 - Got a lucky hinduism spread. No weird holy city status robbing.

Oomph. Lookie there. Shame the river doesn't come by babylon Toku.

T34 - Hamuragawa got BW. My mistake. It's Toku.
Stupid bear is sniffing my -ss. I need to retreat in my culture.
Toku has no metal on west side; seeing normal grass output.

Almost end of T34 : Question.

I put 50% (half of 14 beakers on 100%) on BW to ensure us BW on time. Is that okay for all of you. We also save one beaker from rounding off, assuming the freebee beaker is external to the calculus of rounding.
This adds another 4 for a total of 34 . So, 7 less than the test game, lesser amount than expected 8 I said it was unnecessary. Yes, I know I don't use max of BW innate 20% discount, that is the best, along 100%

 

[shulec]

Look at that Juicy worker. If a second one shows up on that tile (doubtful), you have to pause your turnset.

 

[Manco Capac]

Look at that Juicy worker. If a second one shows up on that tile (doubtful), you have to pause your turnset.

Stop the mental torture please. ohhh.
But if there are two workers working different tiles, but adjacent, the situation is the same. Trust me on this one.

But on emperor, nah, impossible. On deity, very likely.

 

[mabraham]

Okay.

Oh yeah, we still get under 99%. 2XP's. Shame I couldn't test because the game was open.

EDIT: Sometimes, I don't understand odds and this is not the first time. I know by fact under 99% is definitely 2XP's. I had something 98,3? %.
I got 1 XP. Weird. But we are lowly damaged.

I think it is only indirectly connected to the combat odds. See http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137615.

The strengths are in the mouse-over in your fourth original screenshot. If C1 had no effect other than healing, the lion stays at 0.96 and we go up to 1.81. Using the formula on that link, 4*0.96 / 1.81 = 2.07 => 2XP, however C1 increases our strength to 1.99, and 4*0.96/1.99 < 2. So we were very close to getting 2XP from the post-promotion combat

 

[shulec]

I really didn't want to bring it up now, but I have serious doubts about a peaceful religious victory. A worker steal here can be very big if we go with a religious diplomation. Is it worth pausing if the worker is still in range next turn?

 

[Manco Capac]

I really didn't want to bring it up now, but I have serious doubts about a peaceful religious victory. A worker steal here can be very big if we go with a religious diplomation. Is it worth pausing if the worker is still in range next turn?

Well, I already moved on westward hill. BUT it is very possible to see the worker mining the hill. Stupid worker often start roading before improving. "Facepalm"

Don't forget we face bowmen with that Toku. Choking is hard, but doable. I have done such on emperor in the past. Nonetheless, doing so will bring the babylonian Toku to train lots of bowmen.

 

[mabraham]

I put 50% (half of 14 beakers on 100%) on BW to ensure us BW on time. Is that okay for all of you. We also save one beaker from rounding off, assuming the freebee beaker is external to the calculus of rounding.
This adds another 4 for a total of 34 . So, 7 less than the test game, lesser amount than expected 8 I said it was unnecessary. Yes, I know I don't use max of BW innate 20% discount, that is the best, along 100%

Getting BW on time sounds more important than a beaker, but I don't know enough about these mechanics to be sure. Neither am I sure how the maintenance compares between the real and test game.

 

[Manco Capac]

Getting BW on time sounds more important than a beaker, but I don't know enough about these mechanics to be sure. Neither am I sure how the maintenance compares between the real and test game.

DanF said the real game will have one of maintenance less than the test game when Delhi attains 5 pop. But when we another pop somewhere else, the real game should reach -4 too, following again the test game. In other words, for my turnset and shulec's one, we are safe from that more costly maintenance.

Oh, Dan, the city maintenance in the second city is -1.96 cost. (1.42 for distance and 0.54 for pop)
Now you can calculate maxplot.

 

[shulec]

Well, I already moved on westward hill. BUT it is very possible to see the worker mining the hill. Stupid worker often start roading before improving. "Facepalm"

Don't forget we face bowmen with that Toku. Choking is hard, but doable. I have done such on emperor in the past. Nonetheless, doing so will bring the babylonian Toku to train lots of bowmen.

Good point. With a road and an extra bowman in the city, that could mean a dead warrior, lost worker and an unwanted war on our hands.

About the research: I don't follow it; you won't be able to make me understand; and I would have to see it tested to form an opinion. I am also not the spreadsheet guy.

 

[Manco Capac]

Good point. With a road and an extra bowman in the city, that could mean a dead warrior, lost worker and an unwanted war on our hands.

Well, that is a road without connection I see now. Which means no bowman out of blue. Second, archers are units with more of a city protection function than attacker. A worker steal when the DoW is done on the same turn often lead to some freeze reaction from the AI; like they still think the worker is still there.
But that changes when there are more than 2 archers in the city. But on emperor...

In addition, using that neck of land won't save us from an AI stack. That'll only on barbs.