SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika

[Manco Capac]

When odds are just less than 99%, only Deity level will provide 2 XPs for a successful attack.

Why is the plot labeled "Choke Point" a better one than the plot SE of it with a forest?

Congratulations Tachy, on an especially well played turn set!

Sun Tzu Wu

I don't think it's true. I have attacked plenty of times scouts with super high odds (around 99%) and get away with 2XP's. And it was on emperor.

Well, because we fogbust more. The way I place it, there is no way any barb would pass by inavertantly. Wait, I will bring a scheme picture.

Some barbs galleys spawning in the north are neutralized having the warrior one tile to the west.
Yes, the second border pop in Bombay may help the fogbusting region via the mountains, but barbs a little farther will still look on us for looting.

 

[Manco Capac]

I just speculated a little theory we are likely all connected via rivers in the middle of mountains. Not much to say, just images.

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In regards if we should move Amundsen/Patterson rightward, well, we shall keep in mind a bear is still lurking around if not killed by Toku archers.

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The tile next to the coast and NW to the lone mountain near Bombay should be looked before thinking settling near the wheat. A seafood is still a possibility for a wheat/seafood city.

 

[shulec]

I just got internet access again. Go ahead an play another turn if you want Tachy. For some reason, I didn't get the test game and I didn't get to do any testing today.

 

[Manco Capac]

I just got internet access again. Go ahead an play another turn if you want Tachy. For some reason, I didn't get the test game and I didn't get to do any testing today.

Your email does not work like in the past for some reason. I tried three times.

 

[shulec]

This is my official "Got it!" post.

Nice Job Tachy on your turnset.

Got it for the test game too. Thanks for making is so promptly, sorry my email wouldn't accept it.

 

[Manco Capac]

People, want me to play one more turn right away.
I know what to do.
Delhi:
Warrior for two turns,
2 GH plus Cf and FPf. Afterwards, shulec should switch one GH with a grass forest. The warrior should have then 3 OF hammers. The last turn before pop 5 needs 3 ; then work all GH and Cf. This should brings 15 *2 to the GW.
Meanwhile, Bombay still work on the 10 turns worker as I already put on task in my last turn.

Now the question: Do we take the risk with Amundsen the lion killer to get eaten by a bear going on the eastward forest. We won't have any river to protect him.

If no answer in 15 minutes, then I'll do it tomorrow. Be fast. Time's out.

 

[mabraham]

People, want me to play one more turn right away.
I know what to do.
Delhi:
Warrior for two turns,
2 GH plus Cf and FPf. Afterwards, shulec should switch one GH with a grass forest. The warrior should have then 3 OF hammers. The last turn before pop 5 needs 3 ; then work all GH and Cf. This should brings 15 *2 to the GW.
Meanwhile, Bombay still work on the 10 turns worker as I already put on task in my last turn.

Now the question: Do we take the risk with Amundsen the lion killer to get eaten by a bear going on the eastward forest. We won't have any river to protect him.

If no answer in 15 minutes, then I'll do it tomorrow. Be fast. Time's out.

Looks good.

I'm up for crossing the river to end up 1W of sheep. If Toku has settled 1NE of corn then he has a lot of vision from the hill 1E of sheep. So no new animals will have spawned in the fog.

 

[Manco Capac]

Looks good.

I'm up for crossing the river to end up 1W of sheep. If Toku has settled 1NE of corn then he has a lot of vision from the hill 1E of sheep. So no new animals will have spawned in the fog.

Lucky you I am still on board. I wasn't talking about new animal spawning, I was referring to the existing bear.
I play the turn in 5 minutes.

 

[shulec]

The japanase city has been there a few turns, the animal probably migrated away from it cultural borders. 1 SE may be safer that 1S. Go for it!

 

[Manco Capac]

Another delta.

The water network is tricky here. Engineered?

I already swap a GH to a grass forest. But nothing stop you to verify it.
See ya.
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Reference number: 11519
Game: C-IV SGOTM 15
Your team: Kakumeika
Your name: Tachywaxon
Date submitted: 2012-02-18
Software Version: BtS 3.19
Game date: 2360BC
Player race: India
Firaxis score: 115
Session time played (hh:mm:ss): 00:06:44
Total time played (hh:mm:ss): 06:09:26
Game status: Incomplete
Submitted save: SGOTM15 - T41 - Beginning of the turn..CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[shulec]

Task: Post a copy(edited with proposed changes) of the grand strategy and a goal oriented PPP within 24 hours of the got it


The Grand Strategy

Work in progress...

Goal: Religious Leader Victory

• Stonehenge early to give options for repeated city gifts later (and to help get early great prophets to build Hindu Holy City Building? and Bulb Theology?). Check
• Assuming we need caravels to reach everyone we will take metal casting with the Oracle
• Bulb Machinery and optics with either a great engineer and great scientist or time 2 great scientists before we are ready to bulb theology (and avoid fishing & meditation other tech to avoid?)
• Analyze map via coordinates of capitol/equator to try to determine what base map the mapmaker used.
• Consider Risk/Benefit of marine exploration with WBs vs. GS bulb of machinery.
• Spread hinduism via Hindu Holy City, city gifts, missionaries and other creative means to get open borders?
• Get 1 AI to friendly by flipping him to Hinduism and engaging in a holy war?

Goal Oriented PPP

Dehli
Build toward Warrior
Finish settler, move to East settle site.
Finish Warrior
Build 3rd worker needed for quarry in two turns.

Bombay
Chop/finish worker Bombay
Invest hammer into TGW
Rename Bombay

Workers
Migrate to Dehli while using last worker turn for improvement for 1T.
Hook up copper?
Goal (next turnset) get to deer, improve; road two tiles south of Dehli to get Marble tile connected via river.

Warriors
Fog bust.
Spawn bust.
Barbs seen on T45 in test games.

Research
BW=>Wheel

 

[DanF5771]

Hrrmpf ... we now have two Axemen-braggarts as close neighbors & worst enemies, Toku can build them too.

Would be interesting to know if any / how many of the other teams were willing to risk a worker steal ...

T40 - Turnset finished. SH ours. Hammuragawa got his second city in the north.

Did you mix up the two Tokus here or did Hammu lose his 2nd city? He currently only has his capital.

EDIT:
And awesome find about the choke point block for the barb AI_targetCity mission. It is confirmed, this mission will only be pushed successfully for barb 'Lemming' units (the special units spawned in barb uprising events) that use the MOVE_THROUGH_ENEMY=true flag. Regular barbs have this flag set to default=false in their mission-select code and without a possible path the AI_targetCity mission cannot be chosen for 'protected' cities (right, a Scout is enough) -> they turn towards other cities or fall back to the standard patrol mission (provided they can't attack or pillage).

 

[neilmeister]

EDIT:
And awesome find about the choke point block for the barb AI_targetCity mission. It is confirmed, this mission will only be pushed successfully for barb 'Lemming' units (the special units spawned in barb uprising events) that use the MOVE_THROUGH_ENEMY=true flag. Regular barbs have this flag set to default=false in their mission-select code and without a possible path the AI_targetCity mission cannot be chosen for 'protected' cities (right, a Scout is enough) -> they turn towards other cities or fall back to the standard patrol mission (provided they can't attack or pillage).

You guys amaze me!

 

[mabraham]

Strategy PPP looks good to me.

Are we happy settling 1N of gold? That relies on the SH-monument plus maybe Hinduism to put out enough culture to keep the sheep in the short term, and we'll monitor future needs. The deer and sheep food resources are enough to work a whole host of those Gmines, though a Gfarm or two during a growth phase is probably wise. So we should probably plan on building a fast AP, or an army here. This commits to never using the cows in any city.

The main alternative looks to be 1E of gold, but to show a profit we'd have to culture-capture the corn and settle the deer-cows site. The former sounds like too much of a distraction, when we have the option of building enough force to capture Toku's second city, and then perhaps declaring an AP peace. Alternatively still, if we find bronze we could settle 1E of gold, and razetake Toku's second city with four whipped/chopped axemen after Oracle?

Is there any way of telling how many AIs another AI has met if you have not met those other AIs? We have suspicious EP behaviour suggesting Toku doesn't like someone else he knows. Surely they'd have to have close borders with him?

 

[WastinTime]

. Alternatively still, if we find bronze we could settle 1E of gold, and raze Toku's second city

no city razing.

 

[DanF5771]

Schematic plan re Toku and settling:

Settle 1E of Gold as in previous tests, chop Oracle there (requires a lot of Workers, these should be chopped in Bombay) -> culture pressure on Osaka, steal Corn, provoke a Dow by Toku also due to becoming his land target. Avoid Dowed-on-friend diplo hits, fight defensive(?) war.

Meanwhile get Hammu to pleased with city gift/liberation (optimally the double liberation variant for permanent +3 with in-between barb conquest -> re-conquest & re-liberation) and resource trades/gifts + years of peace, prevent dog-pile by enforced peace treaty after begging for stuff (resource?).

Osaka could be conquered and gifted to 3rd AI (east of Toku, depends on distances) with high likelihood of flipping back to us, then it could also be razed.

 

[mabraham]

Schematic plan re Toku and settling:

Settle 1E of Gold as in previous tests, chop Oracle there (requires a lot of Workers, these should be chopped in Bombay) -> culture pressure on Osaka, steal Corn, provoke a Dow by Toku also due to becoming his land target. Avoid Dowed-on-friend diplo hits, fight defensive(?) war.

Sounds reasonable. I tried it out. With five workers (one after settler in Delhi, three chopped out of Bombay) I got Oracle 1E of gold T63. Adding only a temple, I captured the corn T96 against Buddhism+monument defence. Library or monastery would speed that up, of course. Those workers then had heaps of spare time - we'd want to mass settle and cottage spam to leverage that investment.

We'd have been in position to bulb Theol about T90 with suitable planning. The scientists for the other bulbs were 20ish turns away, however.

Meanwhile get Hammu to pleased with city gift/liberation (optimally the double liberation variant for permanent +3 with in-between barb conquest -> re-conquest & re-liberation) and resource trades/gifts + years of peace, prevent dog-pile by enforced peace treaty after begging for stuff (resource?).

So what sites might we gift? If we plan to settle 1W of gems, and get (whip?) a settler before the T57ish border pop, we could settle 2N3W of Delhi, which will come under our culture-flip pressure immediately. Delhi should be put on constant settler duty if we're not building the Oracle there, so this might be able to be made work. Alternatively, 2N of sheep will eventually give us two potential gift cities both under pressure from the Oracle city if we follow the above plan. The sheep plan doesn't have to be executed as quickly, but relies on the success of T63 Oracle. Either way, we'd need to do this before Hamm settles his fourth city, and we really won't have a good timer on that until we see his second and third go up.

If we settle 1N of gold, then gifting a pre-T57 cows city is a good option.

Osaka could be conquered and gifted to 3rd AI (east of Toku, depends on distances) with high likelihood of flipping back to us, then it could also be razed.

The hard thing is meeting that AI. It's a long while before we might get Alpha for a spy (unless somehow someone trades it to us), or that AI getting through Toku's closed borders, even with Buddhism positive diplo.

 

[mabraham]

From of the look of the land, once Delhi pops its borders T57ish, we can defog the whole map with 3-4 well placed warriors. That prevents barb city spawn for us to kill and gift away, but maybe we don't need that? Anyway, we have the option of making barb units a non-issue. It was T70 before any came into my lands in my most recent test game.

TGW is useless against barb galleys, and we won't have much seafood anyway.

The cross-strait TGW-fueled border pops for AI contacts that I was hoping for from Bombay don't look like they'll be fast enough to matter much. The mountains on the other side of the water look like neilmeister was onto that idea in advance.

The GSpy has scouting value, but will slow down the advent of caravels. Infiltrating the AI on the far side of Toku could be good (he doesn't like them despite their same religion, so they probably have a high peaceweight, so might be teching well). We are unlikely to meet them before they get their fourth city (unless they have no land), so any tech stealing would be expensive (and maybe hard to get Hinduism into the target city).

Provoking Toku into war might see some action in our lands for double GG points, but really we'd prefer to provoke him and start taking cities ASAP.

On balance, I like TGW fail gold sooner rather than scouting plus later infiltration for distant tech stealing later and later Optics. What do people think?

 

[mabraham]

From the looks of the power graphs, there is bronze or horses around. And poor OSS lost a warrior

 

[Kaitzilla]

I like settling our 3rd city just north of gold. It can potentially be a monster hammer city later.


Goading one of our two neighbors into declaring war on us also sounds like a good idea. Just refuse a demand or two, make sure borders are touching, keep our army relatively weak until the fist symbol shows up, and maybe make an arrogant demand to push things along.

I can't imagine we will get open borders with either of them unless we want to gift a city that has hinduism and then perform espionage to change them to our religion.




I have completed rather few religion victories in the past
How would we manage a religious victory if all of the AI were Tokugawas? I know that you can gift missionaries to get around theocracy, but how does one spread religion to a bunch of closed border civs? Maybe we will get lucky and only our 2 immediate neighbors are Tokugawa.