SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element

[Folket]

Shall we vote on Ramesses to get the diplomacy bonus in the AP vote?

 

[ZPV]

Shall we vote on Ramesses to get the diplomacy bonus in the AP vote?

Only if he'd win the election anyway.
If we're able to capture 15 citizens up to and including the turn of the revolt, we'll have more than him, and should then vote for ourselves.
edit: nope, that's wrong. Rammy switched to Christianity, so his 60 votes aren't doubled. That means we'd need to capture 22 citizens. Still just about doable if Memphis and Elephantine are pushovers.
edit2: Actually, it means he won't be up for election at all!

 

[BLubmuz]

I wonder what Heliopolis is building. Also, if it's Versailles, will it be blocked because that city is now the capital?

Yes, it's stopped. I don't remember if he gets the failure gold, but probably not.

Now, i see that Thebes has 3 tiles free of yellow culture. This gives us the chance to arrive to Elephan and attack in 2 turns, exactly like we can do For Memphis, which is closer. But there's the chance that those tiles will soon be covered by yellow.
We have 13 muskets and the Gmedic in Thebes, but roughly an half is badly injured. 4 of them + 1 full health can be promoted.

If we send 2 pairs in each city to see the defenders, we can decide what to do.

Or we can bet on one and the juicy target is Memphis.

Mastiff, please promote our only galley to C1 and move it to heal inside the city. If it finds a tuna, it can sink it.
And anyone, please broke the stacks once you arrive in a city. Full health units stacked with injured units which have to move later will lose the fortification bonus once the stack is broken.

 

[ZPV]

Yes, it's stopped. I don't remember if he gets the failure gold, but probably not.

Now, i see that Thebes has 3 tiles free of yellow culture. This gives us the chance to arrive to Elephan and attack in 2 turns, exactly like we can do For Memphis, which is closer. But there's the chance that those tiles will soon be covered by yellow.
We have 13 muskets and the Gmedic in Thebes, but roughly an half is badly injured. 4 of them + 1 full health can be promoted.

If we send 2 pairs in each city to see the defenders, we can decide what to do.

Or we can bet on one and the juicy target is Memphis.

Mastiff, please promote our only galley to C1 and move it to heal inside the city. If it finds a tuna, it can sink it.

Memphis is the juicy target. We can spy on Elephantine from across the water.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

@ZPV - Nitpicky is good, it's the nuances of the game where I still need to improve. Good news on the WW in Thebes (Another thing I didn't know!). Does this mean with the SM, cheap Hindu shrines get us +2gpt?

Other stuff:

If he captures Venta, will he be less willing to give us techs and gold for peace?

One other item on continuing the war. Without our spy, we have no idea where he is building wonders. If we make peace, we might get UofS or other WWs, and he won't spam the LBs (mentioned before).

The way I'm reading the AP, we can't be a full member since we don't run Bud, but will be a voting member since we have a city with the AP religion. (Can it be in revolt?) Since we own the AP now, we can be the resident. Can a voting member be resident? If so, wouldn't he be on the ballot, and win since he has more pop in cities with Buddhism? I'm confused as usual.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

Mastiff, please promote our only galley to C1 and move it to heal inside the city. If it finds a tuna, it can sink it.
And anyone, please broke the stacks once you arrive in a city. Full health units stacked with injured units which have to move later will lose the fortification bonus once the stack is broken.

Copy that!

I'll put together a whole list like I've been doing later in the day.

 

[ZPV]

@ZPV - Nitpicky is good, it's the nuances of the game where I still need to improve. Good news on the WW in Thebes (Another thing I didn't know!). Does this mean with the SM, cheap Hindu shrines get us +2gpt?

Other stuff:

If he captures Venta, will he be less willing to give us techs and gold for peace?

One other item on continuing the war. Without our spy, we have no idea where he is building wonders. If we make peace, we might get UofS or other WWs, and he won't spam the LBs (mentioned before).

The way I'm reading the AP, we can't be a full member since we don't run Bud, but will be a voting member since we have a city with the AP religion. (Can it be in revolt?) Since we own the AP now, we can be the resident. Can a voting member be resident? If so, wouldn't he be on the ballot, and win since he has more pop in cities with Buddhism? I'm confused as usual.

We own the AP, so we are a full member, regardless of religion.
A voting member can't be resident.

Yes, Hindu buildings give us 2 gpt each (although Monasteries won't once we get scientific method). Building them isn't quite a no-brainer unless we also pick up Sankore, but there are situations where it pays off.

We can keep track of how much it costs to sabotage production in various cities - that's how we know when he's building a wonder anyway.
In Heliopolis, sabotaging production currently costs ~4k espionage points, so there are around 360 hammers invested into something there.

Spammed LBs aren't really a problem once we have cannons.
Capturing Venta will give him a small boost to his war success. We could always capture it back, if we need to squeeze out a little more gold from him.
My thoughts on peace are that we have the units, so we should use them. Once our stack starts to get too thin to capture cities, then we'll want peace.

btw: there's a great general in Paris. He should be settled in Apache.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

btw: there's a great general in Paris. He should be settled in Apache.

Got it. We're close to another one as well. Same deal? Or save him for a MA?

We own the AP, so we are a full member, regardless of religion.
A voting member can't be resident.

So are there ANY other full members? (I don't have the save at work, of course)

 

[ZPV]

Got it. We're close to another one as well. Same deal? Or save him for a MA?

Same deal. We don't want to research Military Science.

So are there ANY other full members? (I don't have the save at work, of course)

No, just us.

 

[BLubmuz]

Same deal. We don't want to research Military Science.

Surely we don't want that pesky tech. But, in case we need to fight a 2 front war, can be of use another GGmedic. Pity we do not have another chariot, unless we pillage our iron But a musketeer can be a good choice too. Then, i think that 2 GGs in a city are not worth. We can decide to devote another city to mlitary (Lyons or Memphis) and settle there, or settle it in Paris for science multipliers with representation. 3bpt*3.2 now, then *3.25/3.45, then *3.5.

Stupid me, i forgot that galley, being worried by its poor state. Sure, we can promote it and use to see Elephan.

 

[ZPV]

Surely we don't want that pesky tech. But, in case we need to fight a 2 front war, can be of use another GGmedic. Pity we do not have another chariot, unless we pillage our iron But a musketeer can be a good choice too. Then, i think that 2 GGs in a city are not worth. We can decide to devote another city to mlitary (Lyons or Memphis) and settle there, or settle it in Paris for science multipliers with representation. 3bpt*3.2 now, then *3.25/3.45, then *3.5.

Stupid me, i forgot that galley, being worried by its poor state. Sure, we can promote it and use to see Elephan.

I was thinking of the spearman in Avignon moving 3S1E rather than risking the galley.

On the GG: I guess it'll depend how many we get.
If we can settle three, then the ability to build 9XP cannons is a large boon - only one battle is needed to go to CR3. If we're not going to get that many, then a second city of 5XP units is better.
We will want a second super medic eventually, but certainly we don't need it for Egpyt, and it's not the end of the world if we don't get it.

 

[unclethrill]

I agree that we need to continue to roll on Ram. Leave no more than 3 units in Thebes. Send the rest to Memphis and then Elephantine. At that point we may need to get peace to restock our units.

 

[BLubmuz]

I was thinking of the spearman in Avignon moving 3S1E rather than risking the galley.

Good idea, doable. So we can heal the galley inside the city.

And yes, we surely do not need a 2nd GMedic for Egypt.

Then, what if Ele is very lightly defended? Memphis remains a better target.

I propose this for Mastiff as the first things to do when he can play: Break the stacks in Thebes, promote all the injured units. A couple cover maybe? Then move the spear in Avignon and report. MM and so on can wait until he will take the game again.

About Sankore, why not try for it? we're industriuos and we have stone. And forges and OR. Uzbek can complete it in 17 turns, but we have 2 chops.

 

[BLubmuz]

I agree that we need to continue to roll on Ram. Leave no more than 3 units in Thebes. Send the rest to Memphis and then Elephantine. At that point we may need to get peace to restock our units.

Do you mean at the same time? Or Memphis first, back to Thebes, then Ele?

Now, Lib. Do we shoot for Econ or do we take a risk? Econ needs 3 turns, actually 5, i think.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

@Blubmuz - MM? You lost me. I'm usually good with the acronyms, but not this one.

I thought we had consensus we'd take Econ unless Hammu popped a GM between turns, and then Astro. (We discussed Constitution, too, but with the Pyramids, we have the civics opened already)

I was planning on UofS there already. Why not go for it, indeed! If we get it, great. If not, failgold doubled up by stone.

Why is Memphis a better target? Wonders? Just curious. And I'd probably rather take one then the other than split the stacks. We will face knights at some point, plus we don't want to get so weak we can't keep what we get.

 

[ZPV]

@Blubmuz - MM? You lost me. I'm usually good with the acronyms, but not this one.

I thought we had consensus we'd take Econ unless Hammu popped a GM between turns, and then Astro. (We discussed Constitution, too, but with the Pyramids, we have the civics opened already)

I was planning on UofS there already. Why not go for it, indeed! If we get it, great. If not, failgold doubled up by stone.

Why is Memphis a better target? Wonders? Just curious. And I'd probably rather take one then the other than split the stacks. We will face knights at some point, plus we don't want to get so weak we can't keep what we get.

MM = micromanagement.

Yeah, I think Economics is probably best.

If the building in Heliopolis doesn't get cancelled, then I think UofS is the only available wonder that it could be building. Still, the gold would be nice.

Memphis gives us silver, and more tiles for Thebes.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

MM = micromanagement.

Ah, got it.

If the building in Heliopolis doesn't get cancelled, then I think UofS is the only available wonder that it could be building. Still, the gold would be nice.

If Ram builds it, we can have both!

Memphis gives us silver, and more tiles for Thebes.

Indeed...

.....

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

Okay, let me summarize:

- Move spearman in Avignon 3S1E as soon as I get home. Report results of what he sees.

- Upgrade galley and heal in the city

- Have Paris work 5 grassland towns, the corn, and the floodplain.

- Work Sheep in Deco

- Whip Chartres a Lighthouse, and use the overflow to build a Hindu Missionary for Rouen.

- Whip Avignon a lighthouse and then go back to wealth.

- Settle GG in Apache

- Break stack, heal muskets in Thebes with cover upgrades, march to Memphis. (leave 3 behind)

- Finish Lib, take Econ unless Hammu pops a GM, then Astro (We agreed on this?)

- Upon getting stone, start UofS in Uzbek and put chops in it. Start Moai, too.

- Do we want to trade Nat to Sal for Theo+30g?

Anything else? I'll be home in an hour.

EDIT: BTW, why are you guys up after 1am?!

 

[unclethrill]

Here is my suggestion moving forward (on the war at least):

1. Before the turn ends: Break Stack, Fortify Musketeer 8 and Musketeer 23. Give Musketeer 17, 4, 20, 22 Cover promotion. Then move Musketeer 7, 14, 28 to 1W of Memphis. Move Musketeer 19, 5, 17, 4, 20, 22 to 2W1S of Memphis. Leave Musketeer 24, 30 and the general in Thebes one turn.
2. Report back with a save that will show us what we are up against in Memphis.

I vote for Econ from Lib as long as it is safe.

 

[unclethrill]

[/COLOR]

Okay, let me summarize:



- Break stack, heal muskets in Thebes with cover upgrades, march to Memphis. (leave 3 behind)

See above post. We don't want to lose a turn now. Push on before you end the turn. We can potentially have Memphis on the next turn and if things go well, Elephantine in 2 turns after that. We have to strike before Ram has a chance to respond.


EDIT: BTW, why are you guys up after 1am?!

I work nights so I'll be up till 7am.