Knowing if Ramesses II also knows Bronze Working currently would be very useful!
I would support worker->settler in Paris if it seems he does know but simply hasn't switched to Slavery yet.
SGOTM 16 - Kakumeika
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Knowing if Ramesses II also knows Bronze Working currently would be very useful!
I would support worker->settler in Paris if it seems he does know but simply hasn't switched to Slavery yet.
I'm going to make one small change to the PPP and repost it since it is 4 pages back now.
I've decided to throw my vote into moving Adam northwest immediately and leaving thatone two no-jungle tiles fogged. There is a 50% chance that settling Orleans will be the trigger that causes barbs to start spawning since that will be the for-sure 10th city in the world and 11 cities is the threshold.
An archer will be the unit that kills Woodsman I Adam, not an animal. I'd rather get a look at lots of no-jungle tiles before getting hurt and eventually blocked off from seeing those fogged tiles by an army of barbs. A 2
enemy has a 3.6% chance to win against Woodsman I Adam if he is in a forest. If it turns out stone/marble was just north of Brennus later I will take the blame, don't mind playing odds
I've decided to throw my vote into moving Adam northwest immediately and leaving that
An archer will be the unit that kills Woodsman I Adam, not an animal. I'd rather get a look at lots of no-jungle tiles before getting hurt and eventually blocked off from seeing those fogged tiles by an army of barbs. A 2
enemy has a 3.6% chance to win against Woodsman I Adam if he is in a forest. If it turns out stone/marble was just north of Brennus later I will take the blame, don't mind playing odds PPP#2 for T41-T49
Grand Strategy
Conquer up to the Domination Limit and race to Future Tech 1 using corporations to win the fastest while completing 10 objectives.
1) Blazing: You must submit a save covering at least your first 100 turns not later than 2 months after game start. (Mid November)
2) Steal EITHER Iron Working, OR Astronomy, OR Physics using espionage. (Probably Iron Working from Brennus)
3) At least one AI opponent has been eliminated (conquered) by your team
4) Kill Humbaba (24
unit according to Tachwaxon's research)5) Be EITHER the United Nations Secretary General OR the Apostolic Palace Resident
6) You own at least 2 Legendary culture cities
7) You own at least 3 Holy Shrines
8) You own at least 3 Corporate Headquarters
9) You have learned Future Tech 1
10) Fulfil the requirements for TWO victory conditions, at least one of which is NOT Conquest or Domination.
(For example, your spaceship arrives on Alpha Centauri the same turn you get Domination, that’s two. If you achieve domination on the same turn as conquest victory, then you need one more victory condition to fulfil this condition).
Currently, an economy running off of cottaged-bureaucratic-Paris supported by The Great Lighthouse and two island cities is tentatively planned. Getting both Ramesses II and Brennus to Friendly for monopoly techs appears easy on paper as both are very religous and love Organized Religion. Two Great Scientists are needed first for a Paris Academy and a large tech bulb early midgame. A Great Engineer is needed to found Mining Inc. and a Great Prophet/s to found a shrine.
In the shorter term, peaceful expansion to
We must avoid Meditation, Civil Service, and Theology if we wish to attempt a radical Astonomy bulb I believe. That would open up Galleons and Salons but ruin plans for a Bureaucratic Paris or guaranteed Aposolistic Palace.
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Know Your Enemies - Brennus, Ramesses II
Screenshot Dump T41 (One AI has like 1 population in the Demo screen
)Spoiler :
Three more Screenshots
Spoiler :
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Goal Orientated PPP
Research
T41-T49 Alphabet (0% Research on T41 and 100% after. Will have to drop below 100% research slider on T48 to finish Alphabet)
T43 Juggle the empire to get 24BPT by switching wheat to FP temporarily and switch to Fishing temporarily and screenshot the Demo screen to record Demographics. Put Wheat back and 100% on Alphabet again.
Paris
T41-T49 Build Settler to become our 3rd city
Orleans
T41 Founded on the plains river tile 1S1W of sheep. Will work the FPCottage that is shared with Paris. Will build warrior.
T48 Switch from FPCottage to FPFarm if still Size 1 and Alphabet on T49 isn't affected
Worker
T42-T48 Farm 1S of Orleans
T49 Cottage 1E of Orleans. Halt and see if Animal Husbandry will be available through trades so Sheep can be improved on T50.
Warriors
Adam - Scout northwest immediately to uncover most of the hidden tiles in the middle of the map. Hopefully end up safe on forested hilltop 5W2E of Paris.
Ultimately, move to forest 1W1S of wine to keep any barb cities from forming at pigs/wine in the next turnset. Will probably use a spy to get the few remaining jungle tiles north of Brennus explored at a later date.
Eve - Scout southeast to unfog Brennus' 2nd city and then circle back to scout the western coastline. This is superior to scouting south as it might allow us to maintain trade with Ramesses II in the event of war with Brennus.
Louis - Scout northwest to deer and then the rest of the hidden north. Ultimately, come back down and fogbust the eastern Deer/Fish/Pigs site.
Joan - Scout 4E1S from Paris towards Ghill to uncover the one fogged tile on our eastern coast, then head northeast and spawnbust barbs to keep them from appearing at Corn/Fish site.
Barbarian Schedule
T42 - Best guess at when barbs will appear. Research by Tachywaxon indicates this will occur when there are 11 cities in the world. Game started with 7.
T55 and beyond - Best guess at when barbs will invade our territory. Research by Tachywaxon indicates this will occur when there are 15 cities in the world.
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Diplo
Demands by either AI whom are annoyed with each other to close our open borders with the other will be rejected.
End of Turn
Save Game at the beginning and end of every turn
Screenshot Demographics and Espionage screen every turn
Check zoomed-out culture screen
Did an AI enter WHEOOHRN mode? (Fist Icon)
Stopping Conditions
Meet a new AI
Unexpected War Declaration
Alphabet completes. Will upload game and ask if team wishes me to play Turn 49
Find Stone or Marble while exploring
I am definitely paranoid about the barbs. I have been playing a lot of deity lately and have lost the sense of how pesky or dangerous the emperor barbs are. I am going to try to create another test game to get a sense of how the barbs will be and to put Brennus and Ramesses on our continent too.
Tachy, can you look at your T24-T26 saves and see if you spotted any units on the land southwest of the sugar cluster? If you do, it will confirm that it is part of our continent and not an island. Seeing how you label the map when these things occur, I doubt you saw any.
t41 research 0%
Screenie suggests that Brennus has horses or copper in BFC. The extra hammer seems to be an anomaly, but is probably significant.
Spoiler :
Manco Capac
Friday,13 June,I Collapse
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Screenie suggests that Brennus has horses or copper in BFC. The extra hammer seems to be an anomaly, but is probably significant.
Spoiler :
Oh shulec. Man, you ninjaed me. I did the screenshot for that and stuff.
It's horses.
It's still doesn't matter. Kaitzilla mentioned to provide info if someone is in WHEOON mode but that's not gonna happen.
LTC wanted to know what is Ramesses highest unit 3 pages ago: it's archers.
An AI needs to get access to two type of attacking unit to start preparing a war by himself.
Chariots don't count and so for archers.
Most likely, for most Kaitzilla's turnset, no WHEOON will happen and that's good.
But what will happen if AI's don't get access to metal units is their higher propensity to build walls.
bcool
Deity
If we settle our 3rd city, doesn't that make barbarians a bigger problem not a smaller problem?
There is logic in delaying the 3rd city since the 11th city in the world triggers barbarians invading right?
I don't like building a settler that we do not have any intention of improving tiles for it. A 3rd city that likely won't even be connected to our trade network is a drain on our research.
I like the plan to build a library first.
There is logic in delaying the 3rd city since the 11th city in the world triggers barbarians invading right?
I don't like building a settler that we do not have any intention of improving tiles for it. A 3rd city that likely won't even be connected to our trade network is a drain on our research.
I like the plan to build a library first.
Manco Capac
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deleted
If we grow to size 5, Joan has to stay home, so another option instead of Library is yet another Warrior (if we're afraid of barbs).
I also agree 3rd city can wait. We are not competing in a land grab this time. And your point about triggering invasions w/ 11th city is enough convincing for me.
I also agree 3rd city can wait. We are not competing in a land grab this time. And your point about triggering invasions w/ 11th city is enough convincing for me.
bcool
Deity
Knowing if Ramesses II also knows Bronze Working currently would be very useful!
I would support worker->settler in Paris if it seems he does know but simply hasn't switched to Slavery yet.
Based on my rough calculations Ramesses doesn't know Bronze Working
bpt 17 is 11 mouse-over turns to research BW
bpt 15 is 12
bpt 10 is 17
bpt 5 is 32
All of these turns to research is consistent with only 1 AI knowing BW.
LowtherCastle
Deity
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The worker can finish the sheep then move to Fish/Pigs/Corn, making a few partial roads along the way and improve the pigs and corn right after the borders pop. At pop3, this city whips a wb and is quite a producer from then on.
The maintenance issue has to be resolved, but there are always trade-offs. In this case, then trade-off I see is building the Oracle without Math completed, in other words, 30h in Orleans plus the extra maintenance (which could be determined right now if we settled Orleans beforee continuing this discussion, but my guess is it's about 3gpt). What does the third city build during that time? My guess is a lot more than 30 hammers, but it needs to be tested.
Another question is: Why build the Oracle in Orleans? Why not in Paris? Why not let Orleans focus on a wb or two, then the GLH? We need to explore overseas. We need a galley. If we find stone, we want to settle it asap for the Pyramids. Meanwhile, Fish/Pigs/Corn can rush to spawn a GS if we waant to beat the Prophet in either city. REX is almost always better than not and our exploration has already shown many cities we want to settle, right?
Btw, yes, I know I keep talking about Fish/Pigs/COrn even though we might change our minds with horses or copper. But that only means the third city would be even better...
bcool
Deity
PPP seems to lack a build for Orleans. I assume we are building a warrior in Orleans.
bcool
Deity
I don't have to optimize but this plan looks promising...
build library in Paris (grow in 3 turns, then use FPH and Silk and 3 FP cottages to build the library in 5 more turns), then start a settler ... if we can get BW in trade by T55 then we can 2 pop whip the settler in the capital with OF into the Oracle. So yes the 3rd settler is delayed ~6-7 turns or so.
Orleans is free to buid a workboat to explore or perhaps whip a worker, so we have a worker to chop for oracle and GLH. Paris with better micro probably can get Oracle by T66 or so. Not sure about GLH if we whip a worker in Orleans.
build library in Paris (grow in 3 turns, then use FPH and Silk and 3 FP cottages to build the library in 5 more turns), then start a settler ... if we can get BW in trade by T55 then we can 2 pop whip the settler in the capital with OF into the Oracle. So yes the 3rd settler is delayed ~6-7 turns or so.
Orleans is free to buid a workboat to explore or perhaps whip a worker, so we have a worker to chop for oracle and GLH. Paris with better micro probably can get Oracle by T66 or so. Not sure about GLH if we whip a worker in Orleans.
Actually, it is the 15th city that is the invasion threshold, but yes us settling a 3rd city would push up the date when that occurs a little.
It is the 11th city that causes barbs to replace animals and begin spawning.
If the team wants Library first I'd recommend library first and not warrior.
Fixed Orleans warrior build and 0% on Alphabet T41.
I still think a 3rd city right away is best, but I'm not a space race expert. Teching might be more important than normal until we get to "Friendly" with an AI. Currently, both have to know a tech for us to get something juicy. We should have no problem getting Mining,Animal Husbandry,Mysticism, Hunting, Archery, and maybe Fishing.
The thinking for Oracle in Orleans is that it sets Orleans up to be a legendary city later. It lets the capital keep working cottages and preserve its forests for later. We also want Oracle as fast as possible because we only have to spend 100
to get a 500+
technology and emperor AI isn't a slouch.So far:
Settler in Paris
Kaitzilla
LowerTheCastle (I think his vote counts now
)Grow to Size 5 in Paris and build a Library
Bcool (Our space expert imo)
WastinTime (Our teching expert imo)
LowtherCastle
Deity
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I see a need for 4 fogbusters:
We have 3 warriors, one goes south, need two more for fogbusting. Orleans builds one, Paris or Orleans builds one. Need one or two more for garrison eventually.
Wine city fogbusts for Paris and Orleans but opens up a new can of worms to protect itself.
Note that when barbs start spawning, any fogbusters in place will force barbs to spawn somewhere else, preferably south of Brennus. NOte also that we can determine the number of cities existing in the world right now, if we have the saves and want to do that. That way we can somewhat predict when the 11th city will trigger barbs.
Spoiler :
We have 3 warriors, one goes south, need two more for fogbusting. Orleans builds one, Paris or Orleans builds one. Need one or two more for garrison eventually.
Wine city fogbusts for Paris and Orleans but opens up a new can of worms to protect itself.
Note that when barbs start spawning, any fogbusters in place will force barbs to spawn somewhere else, preferably south of Brennus. NOte also that we can determine the number of cities existing in the world right now, if we have the saves and want to do that. That way we can somewhat predict when the 11th city will trigger barbs.
Attachments
That is a sweet spawnbuster dotmap! I was thinking about 1N of the forest just north of that fish with Joan, but was too chicken to plan boldly stepping north from the forest.
The original thought was to have pure GE production in Paris:
Mids
HG
Hagia
Forge
By the way, the updated test game is coming soon!!!
bcool
Deity
To address Kaitzilla's concerns, I think we can afford to tech BW ourselves if we go library first (and we find we can't trade for it by T55). This allows us to use a settler or worker whip with max OF into the Oracle for the capital and saves its forests.
Are we thinking the capital and Orleans as our 2 legendary cities? if so it isn't the end of the world to build the oracle in the capital.
edit: ideally we keep the capital a pure engineer pool, but splitting the oracle and GLH might mean we get them both vs. not.
Are we thinking the capital and Orleans as our 2 legendary cities? if so it isn't the end of the world to build the oracle in the capital.
edit: ideally we keep the capital a pure engineer pool, but splitting the oracle and GLH might mean we get them both vs. not.
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