SGOTM 16 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

[Ronnie1]

I slowed spreading ALL corps at the end, as even Sid's is negative income if we spread it to cities WITHOUT Courthouses, which I did too many times.

We are over the Domination pop already.

IMO, try to make sure CH's get built where Corps exist.

The switch to Free Market made a huge impact on tech rate, 30% on the slider if I remember right.

UN opponent should be Qin of China. A switch back to Bureaucracy should get Hammy back to friendly. We can change civics every turn (Cristo), so we can experiment if need be.

 

[McArine]

Good turnset Ronnie1

Some comments:
It looks like we're around 42 turns to Future tech at 50%. That is 36 turns at 70%.
Atm Paris is 38 turns, Bibracte is at 41, and Lyons is at 63 turns.
So I think we should keep the current tech and culture rate.
We also have 3 GAs and a GS.
With those three GA's Lyons can finish in 44 turns. And we still have a couple of culture buildings to put up in Lyons and Paris. So with a couple more GA's and maybe a GA, we should be able to finish culture in less than 40 turns, and also get tech done in that time.
I actually think that we should consider not building some of the culture in Lyons, or at least delay them a bit, so we still have a couple of turns to coordinate the two vc's. This is perhaps also the reason Lyons is employing scientists instead of artists?

Regarding Three gorges dam, I actually don't think we'll get any benefit from it. We don't have any factories, so we might be better off building wealth.

Regarding spreading corps, I think that it can pay off to spread them both.
Civilized jewelers gives +5 gold and costs 4-5 gold in cities with courthouses. And then gives +4 gold +200% in heliopolis.
Creative constructions gives +6 hammers and costs 9-10 gold, in a city building wealth that gives -3-4 gold. That should also be evened out by Heliopolis.
Either there's something I'm missing in my math, or that should be a net benefit for us.

Regarding Humbaba, I think we should get Rheims building military asap to defeat Humbaba, With hopefully less than 40 turns remaining, it would be very annoying to have to wait for units to be transported to defeat him.

Resources: atm, I count 1 clam and 1 fish not netted. Clam is between Chartres and Toulouse. and Fish is south of Avignon. We also have an unmined aluminum north of Chartres. And in 4 turns we can mine the iron south of Strasbourg. These should all help our corps.

 

[Sleepless]

regarding Corps every time I spread a corps our income went down so there is a negative effect which is limited by the Wall St/Corp HQ combo. Don't forget there is also a cost of spreading the Corp + the cost of building an exec.

Ronnie1 correct about courthouses and corporations. remember playing a GOTM with Willem and having Sushi and no courthouse in Amsterdam. Costs were huge....

Additionally you managed to spread conf to Sal was that by gifting the missionary or was he out of theocracy.

 

[Sleepless]

regarding adopting enviro. We do lose some internal trade routes but keep all our external ones though there is a big jump in corporation costs. Just worried about not winning the UN vote on the first go.. and we do need the shared fav civic bonus to build up and without checking Ham might vote for Qin before us hence wanting SBs votes.

 

[Ronnie1]

regarding Corps every time I spread a corps our income went down so there is a negative effect which is limited by the Wall St/Corp HQ combo. Don't forget there is also a cost of spreading the Corp + the cost of building an exec.

Ronnie1 correct about courthouses and corporations. remember playing a GOTM with Willem and having Sushi and no courthouse in Amsterdam. Costs were huge....

Additionally you managed to spread conf to Sal was that by gifting the missionary or was he out of theocracy.

Gifted Missionary!

Regarding Three gorges dam, I actually don't think we'll get any benefit from it. We don't have any factories, so we might be better off building wealth.

Did I actually start 3 Gorges? I think it is just a place holder, if not, then my mistake. I thought about factories, but didn't really see the point because of the health issues.

Regarding Humbaba, I think we should get Rheims building military asap to defeat Humbaba, With hopefully less than 40 turns remaining, it would be very annoying to have to wait for units to be transported to defeat him.

Some Marines after aerial bombardment should handle him without much trouble. Maybe Flight should be next tech so we can get some bombers built. Also, if Paris is a lock for first Legendary city, it has 2 settled GG's and should build those Marines IMO.

 

[adrianj]

C63, are you available?

The roster order is

1) Ronnie1 Just Played
2) Conquistador63 Up Now
3) Ozbenno On Deck
4) McArine
5) Sleepless

 

[adrianj]

Can anyone post screenshots of our three Legendary Cities and maybe an overview of some kind? A screenshot of a summary of AI relations and the UN voting situation would also be good. Or does UN need to be built before we get that info?

Sounds like we're back to being constrained by Future Tech rather than Culture, or at least the two are closely balanced.

I agree with Sleepless that we should switch to Enviro and start working on getting SB's vote. What other areas of improvement do we have for AI relations? Are we maxed out at Resource Trades, Tech Trades, Def Pacts? Are Qin and Hammy even using Bureaucracy? An alternative to getting Hammy's vote might be to force everyone into Free Speech via UN, thereby removing the bonuses that Qin and Hammy have with eachother.

Now that we have Christo and can change civics at will, perhaps we can toy around with AI civics/religion via diplomacy or espionage. An example I can think of is to make sure all the others have a religion that is different to Qin's while we are the impartial Free Religion friend.

Killing Humbaba is only a matter of a couple of decent land units (Infantry would be enough) and half a dozen bombers. He is only one unit after all.

 

[Conquistador 63]

Sorry, I'm afraid I won't be able to play any more turnsets in this SG.

 

[adrianj]

Oz?

The roster order is

1) Ronnie1 Just Played
2) Conquistador63
3) Ozbenno Up Now
4) McArine On Deck
5) Sleepless

 

[Ronnie1]

Can anyone post screenshots of our three Legendary Cities and maybe an overview of some kind? A screenshot of a summary of AI relations and the UN voting situation would also be good. Or does UN need to be built before we get that info?

Sounds like we're back to being constrained by Future Tech rather than Culture, or at least the two are closely balanced.

I agree with Sleepless that we should switch to Enviro and start working on getting SB's vote. What other areas of improvement do we have for AI relations? Are we maxed out at Resource Trades, Tech Trades, Def Pacts? Are Qin and Hammy even using Bureaucracy? An alternative to getting Hammy's vote might be to force everyone into Free Speech via UN, thereby removing the bonuses that Qin and Hammy have with eachother.

Now that we have Christo and can change civics at will, perhaps we can toy around with AI civics/religion via diplomacy or espionage. An example I can think of is to make sure all the others have a religion that is different to Qin's while we are the impartial Free Religion friend.

Killing Humbaba is only a matter of a couple of decent land units (Infantry would be enough) and half a dozen bombers. He is only one unit after all.

I'll do my best!

According to the F1 screen, at 20% Culture, we are 38(Paris), 41(Bibracte), 63(Lyons) to Legendary. At the HIGHEST SUSTAINABLE cultural rate, 60%, we are 33, 37, 53 respectively. Paris is currently out of Cultural Buildings to build, Bibracte is building Hollywood, and still has an Islamic Mosque it can build. Lyons is building another Christian Missionary(only Monastery) so we can get 2 more Temples(1 under construction in Cuman), 2nd to Paris as it does not have that religion yet. 2 Temples allows Christian Cathedral in Lyons. See screens also

Screenshots of Diplo screen and Info screen attached.

Can't get an actual count of votes until the UN is built, that will be in 5 turns.

We are currently 1 turn to Flight.

Headed out to shovel some snow, let me know what else you want/need and I'll check back in an hour or so.

EDIT: Also, Civ Jewelers will be spread to Paris next turn. We can also build Salons in cities that are trying to produce Great Artists for the free one it provides. We currently have 3 Great Artists. Added Screen shot of F1 sorted to show GPP turns to pop.

 

[adrianj]

The diplo situation looks quite good for us. IIRC, Friendly = +10, UN Victory vote requires +8, including hidden modifiers.

Hidden mods are -1 for difficulty level and the AI specific Base Attitude. For Qin this gives us an extra +1, for SB, Sal and Hammu this is 0.

Regarding their relations with eachother, Qin has Base Peace Weight of 2 (random +/- 3), Hammu and SB are 8 (+/- 3). That difference of 6 is the likely reason they don't particularly like eachother, eg, SB is +3 toward Qin but still not Pleased.

The way things stand at the moment, I'm fairly confident that we have the votes of Hammu and SB, both at +7 after factoring in hidden mods.

We could get Saladin's vote as well if we do some Civic Fiddling: 1) Bribe Hammu into Free Religion (diplomatically), 2) switch ourselves to Theocracy, 3) switch ourselves to Hindu. Our relations with Sal will get a big boost from shared religion and his favourite civic, and we shouldn't lose anything from any of the others.

Using the UN to force everyone in to Free Speech will have the effect that Qin and Hammu will like all the others a bit less. This is more relevant for dropping the likelihood that Hammu will vote for Qin, just in case I've misjudged that.

 

[adrianj]

I think the point for building any city buildings is gone. With possibly only 34 turns remaining, I think all cities should build Wealth, either immediately or when they've finished their current progress.

The list sorted by time-to-pop-GP is a good one. Next Great People will cost 1600, 1800, 2000... and then 2300, 2600, 2900??

1600 = Thebes (3)
1800 = Camulodunum (13)
2000 = Thebes (20)
2300 = Paris (23) <= Assign an extra 2 artists here.
2600 = Thebes (32) <= Surely possible with late game starving.

I guess it goes without saying that all other cities except Legendary Cities and the ones listed above should change to Merchants instead of Artists.

All going well, that gives us a total of 8 GArtists to bomb, possibly 7 if we have mediocre luck. By bombing something like 1-1-5 we could have our cultural victory in about 34 turns from now.

 

[Ozbenno]

I won't be able to play for 3-4 days, so if someone else can sneak in I can play after them.

 

[adrianj]

I won't be able to play for 3-4 days, so if someone else can sneak in I can play after them.

Unfortunately I can't either.

Can anyone? At this point it doesn't really matter if anyone plays back-to-back turnsets.

 

[Ronnie1]

I currently have a lot of time, after Jan 19, I have absolutely NO time to play as I will be traveling until Feb 2.

I have played quite a lot already however.

 

[McArine]

I can play on Thursday. Although I wont have time to post a ppp, except using what has been discussed.

 

[adrianj]

How about this: Ron play a couple (1 or 2) more turns quite soon, since he has some free time and a ready knowledge of the game right now. McArine can then pick it up and continue from Thursday.

Main things to achieve in the next couple of turns: 1) Micromanage the GP (artist vs merchant) situation, 2) finish up or cancel a few city builds and set those cities to Wealth.

Other than the UN, a few bombers/marines, corp execs for Legendary cities, and maybe granaries I don't think any build is worthwhile. If it's going to take 30+ turns to complete then definitely cancel it regardless of what it is as it won't make any material difference.

With most of the MM done and city builds set to Wealth, future turnsets should progress fairly smoothly as there are less decisions to make.

Does this sound reasonable?

 

[Ronnie1]

I'm on it!

 

[Ronnie1]

NO MORE SPREADING SUSHI!

It cost us ~20g/t in a city WITH a CH!

We can still spread Civ Jewelers affordably if we so desire, it still actually is a net gain a few gold, but not sure I see the point. There are still a few buildings under construction, mostly Granaries and Courthouses.

1 Lighthouse only because a forest is going to get chopped and there was significant overflow from the previous build. This is in the city allowing access to Humbaba.

We are building Bombers in 4 cities and Marines in Rheims.

We are currently able to maintain 70% on the slider, obviously this will get better when we are done building Bombers/Marines/UN/etc.... in our high cities.

Reference number: 12225
Game: C-IV SGOTM 16
Your team: Misfit Gypsy Nuts
Your name: Ronnie1
Date submitted: 2013-01-08
Software Version: BtS 3.19
Game date: 1818AD
Total turns played: 279
Session turns played: 3
Player race: France
Firaxis score: 5370
Session time played (hh:mm:ss): 00:56:20
Total time played (hh:mm:ss): 36:59:12
Game status: Incomplete
Submitted save: Louis XIV AD-1818_stop.CivBeyondSwordSave
Renamed file: Misfit_Gypsy_Nuts_SG016_AD1818_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

News Update: Humbaba is still alive

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1812 AD to 1818 AD:

Turn 276, 1812 AD: Christianity has spread in Cuman.
Turn 276, 1812 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Camulodunum.
Turn 276, 1812 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +15&#8483;+60&#8502;, -23&#8500; to Camulodunum. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 276, 1812 AD: Louis XIV adopts Free Speech!
Turn 276, 1812 AD: Louis XIV adopts Free Market!
Turn 276, 1812 AD: You have discovered Flight!
Turn 276, 1812 AD: Memphis celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 276, 1812 AD: The borders of Heliopolis have expanded!
Turn 276, 1812 AD: You have trained Islamic Missionary in Alexandria. Work has now begun on Islamic Missionary.
Turn 276, 1812 AD: The borders of Poitiers have expanded!
Turn 276, 1812 AD: The borders of Toulouse have expanded!
Turn 276, 1812 AD: You have constructed a Granary in Bayonne. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.

Turn 277, 1814 AD: Rheims has grown to size 20.
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Tolosa will become unhealthy on the next turn.
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Vandal has grown to size 13.
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Bayonne has grown to size 5.
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Your population: 548 (47.40%) exceeds the Domination Limit: 485 (42.00%)
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Your land area: 555 (48.60%) is close to the Domination Limit: 730 (64.00%)
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Your Christian Missionary 3 (Lyons) has failed to spread &#8552; in Paris!!!
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Civilized Jewelers Inc has expanded into Paris.
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Civilized Jewelers Inc has brought +5&#8500;, +20&#8502;, -5&#8500; to Paris. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Gold, Silver, Gems.
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Islam has spread in Bayonne.
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Paris will grow to size 26 on the next turn.
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Tolosa will grow to size 22 on the next turn.
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Gergovia will grow to size 19 on the next turn.
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Burgundian will grow to size 18 on the next turn.
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Alexandria will grow to size 16 on the next turn.
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Giza will grow to size 18 on the next turn.
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Poitiers will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 277, 1814 AD: Deal Canceled: Sheep to Saladin for Silver

Turn 278, 1816 AD: Paris has grown to size 26.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Tolosa has grown to size 22.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Tolosa has become unhealthy.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Gergovia has grown to size 19.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Burgundian has grown to size 18.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Heliopolis has become healthy.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Alexandria has grown to size 16.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Giza has grown to size 18.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Poitiers has grown to size 5.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Qin Shi Huang has 120 gold available for trade.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Saladin has 170 gold available for trade.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Your population: 555 (47.76%) exceeds the Domination Limit: 476 (41.00%)
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Your land area: 555 (48.60%) is close to the Domination Limit: 730 (64.00%)
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Saladin will trade Silver
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Christianity has spread in Paris.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Your Frigate 1 (Chartres) has reduced the defenses of Humbaba's Haven to 0%!
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Memphis.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +15&#8483;+60&#8502;, -16&#8500; to Memphis. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 &#8484; for Rouen.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Memphis will grow to size 14 on the next turn.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Heliopolis will grow to size 23 on the next turn.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Hieraconpolis will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Akhetaten will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Rouen will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Bayonne will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: You have trained CreateCon Executive in Thebes. Work has now begun on CreateCon Executive.
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Pablo Picasso (Great Artist) has been born in Thebes (Louis XIV)!
Turn 278, 1816 AD: You have constructed Moai Statues in Hieraconpolis. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.

Turn 279, 1818 AD: Memphis has grown to size 14.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Heliopolis has grown to size 23.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Hieraconpolis has grown to size 10.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Akhetaten has grown to size 10.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Rouen has grown to size 6.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Bayonne has grown to size 6.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Qin Shi Huang has 260 gold available for trade.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: The borders of Strasbourg are about to expand.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Your population: 561 (48.07%) exceeds the Domination Limit: 478 (41.00%)
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Your land area: 555 (48.60%) is close to the Domination Limit: 730 (64.00%)
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Saladin won't trade Silver
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Islam has spread in Tolosa.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Creative Constructions has expanded into Pi-Ramesses.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Creative Constructions has brought +7&#8484;+39&#8502;, -9&#8500; to Pi-Ramesses. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Iron, Copper, Marble, Stone, Aluminum.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Vienne will grow to size 25 on the next turn.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Thebes will grow to size 27 on the next turn.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Memphis will grow to size 15 on the next turn.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Pi-Ramesses will grow to size 20 on the next turn.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Cherbourg will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Poitiers will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Toulouse will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 279, 1818 AD: Bayonne will grow to size 7 on the next turn.

 

[adrianj]

Turn 276, 1812 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +15+60, -23 to Camulodunum. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
...
Turn 278, 1816 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +15+60, -16 to Memphis. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.

What's the difference here then? I assume that's the difference of Free Market?

I'm surprised that we lose 20/turn each time we spread Sid's. Is this what you actually saw happen to our finances? I would have expected it to be offset by the +12 bonus in the Corporation HQ.

In any case, we're probably a bit too late in the game to investing in anything much.

Now that our finances and MM are settled, can we get a better prediction of our tech rate and legendary city culture?