SGOTM 16 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Sleepless · Jan 11, 2013

Def not far from finishing but do need some fine tuning.

First things do we have to culture bomb on the same turn as the diplo vote so next turn we get the diplo and culture victory on the same turn.

Not sure if it has been done already but we need to make sure all the great artists are in position for bombing.

I believe without looking SB still doesn't have Medicine so no bribing into Enviro atm. Qin is in enviro so when we get the chance we should bribe Qin out of burea and enviro into FM and FS. That will hurt his relations with both Ham and SB but we do need to gift SB Med and somewhere along the way adopt enviro ourselves.

Ronnie1 · Jan 11, 2013

I believe the rules state that we can culture bomb the turn after we "win" Diplo, which is technically the same turn to the game.

Sleepless · Jan 11, 2013

I was assuming we need the 2 victory conditions on the same turn.

So we have diplo vote.

Next turn win diplo then culture bomb after winning the game so culture victory would in effect come the turn after the diplo victory.

I though we had to win by 2 conditions on the same turn otherwise if we don't get the UN vote we don't need to culture bomb. Or am I reading that wrong?

Ronnie1 · Jan 11, 2013

Originally Posted by kcd_swede View Post
However, I do not understand why you would not just bomb on the same turn you get some other VC, doing two VC simultaneously.
Here are some possible reasons (I assume from a reading of the rules that these two cases would be permitted):

1. Suppose the needed Great Artist will be generated on the win announcement turn. Thus, one would need to delay the primary victory condition 1t to make them simultaneous, which is not even possible with diplomatic victories. Plus no team will want to delay their win even 1t, if the rules allow otherwise.

2. Suppose a Diplomatic Victory is the chosen Victory Codition to end the game, but the outcome is not certain. One can wait one more turn to see the actual vote and if successful, have the Great Artist create a Great Works, thus fulfilling the second (cultural) victory condition in the submitted turn.

Sun Tzu Wu

^Yes, I see. The first VC sets the finish date, so if you can get that a turn earlier and still fulfill the second VC during the grace period, that's a valid (and smart) tactic to use to save 1t from your finish date.

These 2 posts from the pregame thread make the point I believe.

Sleepless · Jan 11, 2013

It just seemed wrong to win the Diplo Victory go through all the victory screens then carry on the game. Bomb cities and then save the game/upload.

Seems what the above post is saying though and if we don't get the diplo victory can always delay a bit longer our cultural victory..

adrianj · Jan 11, 2013

I think the pregame thread is in agreement with our planning.

Re civic bribing: note that you can't bribe them out of their favourite civic, as that would go against all they stand for.

Ozbenno · Jan 12, 2013

Hey all, I'm not going to have time this weekend unfortunately, probably won't until after we're finished so hopefully someone else can carry on.

Sleepless · Jan 12, 2013

adrianj said:
Re civic bribing: note that you can't bribe them out of their favourite civic, as that would go against all they stand for.

Sure I've bribed civs out of there fav civics. Then again perhaps I haven't needed to because I've wanted to bribe them into there fav civic..

Good news. :lol:

I'm ok with the 2 victory conditions now. It will go win diplo vote. Go through game winning screens. Culture bomb cities to legendary status. Of course this way we get one extra turn of culture as well. Save game. Upload Game.

So guess I'm up again. As Ronnie1 mentioned it looks like future tech 1 will be our stumbling block and/or timing of the UN vote as well.

Will plan to play in a couple of days.

Basic PPP.

Kill Humbaba. Its still likely to be a strong unit even at half strength after bombing so hopefully no bad rng this time.

Change tech path so we do genetics before stealth for the health boost.

MM cities for GP production. Should get Artists from Paris/Thebes. have to see whether we can get another one from somewhere.

Re-calculate science/culture rate prob 70/30.

Gift SB medicine. Will probably gift him alot of techs if we haven't got the shared technological advances merit which should get us to friendly? Edit. Think it would be worth doing the same to Hammy as well.

Stop any wars if possible.

Ronnie1 · Jan 12, 2013

Sounds good!

adrianj · Jan 12, 2013

Re Humbaba: take more time and bring more units if you like. I assume we have some time to spare?

Re Culture/Tech balance: Local culture output should be a high priority. Ie, artists are more important in Lyons than scientists. All three cities can run a food deficit if it means they can hire more artists.

Re GP: Start slowly starving Thebes to maximise GP.

Ronnie1 · Jan 12, 2013

adrianj said:
Re Humbaba: take more time and bring more units if you like. I assume we have some time to spare?

Re Culture/Tech balance: Local culture output should be a high priority. Ie, artists are more important in Lyons than scientists. All three cities can run a food deficit if it means they can hire more artists.

Re GP: Start slowly starving Thebes to maximise GP.

Question?

Because Tech Rate still seems to be the limiting factor, are we not better off getting maximum value out of Lyons as our best tech city by keeping scientists?

Because we are going to bulb it anyway, do artists here make a difference?

McArine · Jan 12, 2013

I think we should be careful with rushing Lyons, if we can't get Future Tech 1 by the last vote, before the next election, then we should be able to delay Lyons another 10 turns.
So I'd keep the Scientists in Lyons, and instead be ready to use all our artists in it for culture bombs.

Ronnie1 · Jan 12, 2013

McArine said:
I think we should be careful with rushing Lyons, if we can't get Future Tech 1 by the last vote, before the next election, then we should be able to delay Lyons another 10 turns.
So I'd keep the Scientists in Lyons, and instead be ready to use all our artists in it for culture bombs.

This was my thinking exactly, we can't afford to be early or we we might miss 2 conditions.

Sleepless · Jan 13, 2013

adrianj said:
Re Humbaba: take more time and bring more units if you like. I assume we have some time to spare?

Re Culture/Tech balance: Local culture output should be a high priority. Ie, artists are more important in Lyons than scientists. All three cities can run a food deficit if it means they can hire more artists.

Re GP: Start slowly starving Thebes to maximise GP.

Humbaba. Sure we have some spare units around which might be worth upgrading. Transport might be a problem as we don't want to put to many resources into military now. Our GG will become a Helicopter for free and we do have a few turns to spare till future tech 1 so can't see any problem. Will be able to guage its proper strength once we have bombed and see what the odds are for marines attacking. Saying that will go round and disband a few units not needed for mil police as they won't be needed and will help with costs.

Ideally we need to time everything so we have the UN vote/future tech1 and enough artists to culture bomb on the same turn. Still looks like tech will be the problem so lots of mm to see if we can tie it all in..

.

Great People. We will get one from Paris and Thebes in my turnset. Have to see whether we can get one from elsewhere before the finish date. Though will kick off a Golden Age if we don't get an Artist from Paris. Assuming its not a scientist!!

adrianj · Jan 14, 2013

PPP looks good Sleepless :cool:

Does anyone have time to simulate in a test game what the actual "Turns to next vote" means? If T305 is in fact a Secretary General vote then we're kind of wasting time with all the fine planning. For that matter, perhaps we should also double check the assumption that there are 6 turns between votes/proposals?

Regarding tactically slowing down Lyons: We're expecting to put at least 4 culture bombs into this city, worth 16000 :culture:

. Even at 800 :culture:

/turn it would take 20 turns to match that. I'm pretty sure there is 0 chance that we 'accidentally' win culture before diplo.

Sleepless · Jan 14, 2013

adrianj said:
PPP looks good Sleepless

Does anyone have time to simulate in a test game what the actual "Turns to next vote" means? If T305 is in fact a Secretary General vote then we're kind of wasting time with all the fine planning. For that matter, perhaps we should also double check the assumption that there are 6 turns between votes/proposals?

Regarding tactically slowing down Lyons: We're expecting to put at least 4 culture bombs into this city, worth 16000. Even at 800/turn it would take 20 turns to match that. I'm pretty sure there is 0 chance that we 'accidentally' win culture before diplo.

Ooops finished. More to follow.

Sleepless · Jan 14, 2013

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1838 AD to 1872 AD:

Spoiler :

adrianj · Jan 14, 2013

Finished??

Brilliant!

Sleepless · Jan 14, 2013

Buffy Log

Spoiler :

Sleepless · Jan 14, 2013

adrianj said:
Finished??

Brilliant!

I was going to stop a few turns out but thought no real point.

Save uploaded and another post with a few piccies to follow.

SGOTM 16 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Deity

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Fly Fly Away

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King

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