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SGOTM 16 - Plastic Ducks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
All caught up. Duckweed's suggestions reflect what I had in mind for pursuing the set.
If I understand correctly, we want to REX to 8~10 cities, after which we get diminishing returns from settling additional cities.
There are a few micro moves that should be reviewed I believe. Nonetheless, this is a good base to start the plan with.
I took a few notes in the 'Continued' spoiler from my last PPP but I think you've already covered these issues.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11951261&postcount=535
We could always gain +1 diplo from Brennusif when he will tell us to switch religions 
If I understand correctly, we want to REX to 8~10 cities, after which we get diminishing returns from settling additional cities.
There are a few micro moves that should be reviewed I believe. Nonetheless, this is a good base to start the plan with.
I took a few notes in the 'Continued' spoiler from my last PPP but I think you've already covered these issues.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11951261&postcount=535
We could always gain +1 diplo from Brennus
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Thanks, kossin. Yes, we could alternate.
Duckweed, can you post a save so we could compare better?
And how do you know he'll send those rabbis? But I can see the earlier anarchy, the less waste. I'll incorporate that in my test.
I have found some small mistakes in my test but it is 5AM here so I am going to hit the bed.
Duckweed, can you post a save so we could compare better?
And how do you know he'll send those rabbis? But I can see the earlier anarchy, the less waste. I'll incorporate that in my test.
I have found some small mistakes in my test but it is 5AM here so I am going to hit the bed.
Not completely sure, but you can usually see 3 missionaries sitting in AI's cities, right?
Here's the T97 save just from kossin's new save. Not sure whether I completely followed my earlier micro. The barrack in Mar should be granary.
The major reason why I favors worker than settler in Paris is because an earlier granary in the eastern fish city is going to give 5F while a new city only gives 2F when working on the clam. In the same time, we gain those worker turns.
BTW, take a break and then come back to the game.
Here's the T97 save just from kossin's new save. Not sure whether I completely followed my earlier micro. The barrack in Mar should be granary.
The major reason why I favors worker than settler in Paris is because an earlier granary in the eastern fish city is going to give 5F while a new city only gives 2F when working on the clam. In the same time, we gain those worker turns.
BTW, take a break and then come back to the game.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Here is autosave from my test. T97.
Note that I have WB exlpored NW island or group of islands if there is any. I find that to be a huge advantage. Except if we have psychic powers and know there isn't anything of worth there. It adds flexibility to our second city location since we can easily settle NW city (and even a turn faster) and then whip settler in Tours just in time to settle barb island city spot (if any is found).
Note that I can have chariot from worker whip OF in Lyons just in time to protect eastern clam site and have benefit there.
Edit:
Duckweed, notice clam site doesn't get any food at all if it doesn't exist. It can get WB from Rheims and it is a net gain on commerce in the mean time and is also pushing border towards that barb city. The only question is whether those worker turns are that necessary. I managed to do just fine with 4 workers (4th from Lyons) even when I wanted to get HG. If we don't consider HG a priority (and if we don't consider it as priority we don't consider it at all), we'll be able to chop granary from Lyons workers and will have workers to spare.
Note that I have WB exlpored NW island or group of islands if there is any. I find that to be a huge advantage. Except if we have psychic powers and know there isn't anything of worth there. It adds flexibility to our second city location since we can easily settle NW city (and even a turn faster) and then whip settler in Tours just in time to settle barb island city spot (if any is found).
Note that I can have chariot from worker whip OF in Lyons just in time to protect eastern clam site and have benefit there.
Edit:
Duckweed, notice clam site doesn't get any food at all if it doesn't exist. It can get WB from Rheims and it is a net gain on commerce in the mean time and is also pushing border towards that barb city. The only question is whether those worker turns are that necessary. I managed to do just fine with 4 workers (4th from Lyons) even when I wanted to get HG. If we don't consider HG a priority (and if we don't consider it as priority we don't consider it at all), we'll be able to chop granary from Lyons workers and will have workers to spare.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Not sure if you change back to normal daytime, would that be 6AM or 4AM
I didn't really get this. What do you mean by normal daytime? I am in Central European Timezone. That is 6 hours ''in the future'' for you.
While I am writing this it is 15:26 and it is 09:26 in Quebec and while I was writing early in the morning, it was 5AM or 05:00. A bit extreme. It'd be nice if we all were in the same time zone for communication purposes.
If you meant about daylight saving time, well, now there isn't any. This is what is actually normal. GMT is the same as UTC (universal time).
Yes. Was it the old 5AM or the new 5AM ? It makes a difference
N.B. I added the river tile in Rheims to my test game post above.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Yes. Was it the old 5AM or the new 5AM ? It makes a difference
N.B. I added the river tile in Rheims to my test game post above.
I thought whole world using daylight saving switched at the same weekend.
Ok, any thoughts on the game? And my WB exploring NW. And city vs. worker?
As I explained, the reason is that a worker can give much more than the clam city. A granary in Mars gives 5F and can do at least a cottage for Paris, while the new city only gain 2F1H (maybe a couple commerce) from the city center. You can run a longer test till another settler from Paris and compare the result.
I got a new save that convert to Judaism on T90 and adjust some build to allow flexibility (For instance, we might want to send a worker with the galley immediately)
Edit: use the save kossin provided to test.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
I get my WB from Tours so that is not a problem. It is an inefficient whip since granary is empty then but Tours has problem that is it growing too fast for only 4 tiles so that is not so bad. 2nd island gets nets on clam 1T earlier than sending WB from Orleans and also grows earlier and works improved fish. So that is 3 food and 2 commerce more there compared to sending WB from Orleans and not exploring NW.
If my WB doesn't find anything useful NW, it can go to the ice region and look for food islands there, even copper.
Lyons gets warrior from Paris. Just like Rheims does too.
Clam city would better be tested. I am not 100% sure in its worth but still think it could be worthy.
I like that idea of possible worker on galley. That barb island seems big enough to have possibility of some land food or resource.
If my WB doesn't find anything useful NW, it can go to the ice region and look for food islands there, even copper.
Lyons gets warrior from Paris. Just like Rheims does too.
Clam city would better be tested. I am not 100% sure in its worth but still think it could be worthy.
I like that idea of possible worker on galley. That barb island seems big enough to have possibility of some land food or resource.
Usually I'll use undecided words on something that I'm not very sure, but on this issue, I'm firm from the 1st post.
Russia has eliminated daylight time, China uses the same timezone throughout the country... I didn't take the time to see what Croatia's policies were
At this point, it's better we don't find copper
Cheap warriors are so good.4th worker over clam settler. This city becomes a drain financially and we have a lot of unimproved tiles that will gain more to us.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Still, I do want to explore NW. Scouting is always a risk but you never say it is a waste. There is a huge opportunity there plus it is good for safety. Settling all those spots aggressively reduces barb galley threat. My approach can settle all the possible spots faster. It is part of an equation too. What is sure is that I'll lose some food in Tours (8 if I am not mistaken) but possible gain is much greater. Tours will still be able to whip everything if we manage to control the happiness there plus, it needs to get religion to do so.
I produced warrior in Orleans too, but I didn't convert to religion and it was tied up for some time there. I can send that warrior to Lyons if I convert and redirect those hammers into Paris library.
@kossin
Worry not, Croatia is getting absorbed into European Union and all their policies apply here in Croatia, even when it makes more damage or no sense.
Clam city is still net gain on commerce. Even more once we settle that island. And I do get that 4th worker too, but from Lyons and also get chariot for some safety. Good thing since barb Archer (slighlty wounded, though) ended up in my land in one test.
I produced warrior in Orleans too, but I didn't convert to religion and it was tied up for some time there. I can send that warrior to Lyons if I convert and redirect those hammers into Paris library.
@kossin
Worry not, Croatia is getting absorbed into European Union and all their policies apply here in Croatia, even when it makes more damage or no sense.
Clam city is still net gain on commerce. Even more once we settle that island. And I do get that 4th worker too, but from Lyons and also get chariot for some safety. Good thing since barb Archer (slighlty wounded, though) ended up in my land in one test.
I bet that you have not thought about 1 pop whip of the WB in Rh at size 3 (needs to whip a WB, LH, a galley, and a settler at least), which is needed for Mars , that's why I mentioned that Rh needs quite a few warriors in short time. Probably ~5. So warriors are never enough. Moreover, 1 chariot is still unsafe if there are barbarian archers decide to go for the clam city. That's why I said that we need more units from Lyons or Paris in that case. Therefore, there's no difference of whether a chariot or a warrior in the clam city on safety, while a warrior there is best in cost.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
@Duckweed
You forgot to revolt in your T97 test.
Second I got it all covered.
Now I'll draw a bit to explain things better so stay tuned.
You forgot to revolt in your T97 test.
Second I got it all covered.
Now I'll draw a bit to explain things better so stay tuned.
The save in post #591 was the one converted.
Still want a settler over worker? Even a worker from Lyons is still not enough. Think about how much you will gain from earlier clam city, 2F1H (a little gain or lose of commerce). The culture revolt of the barbarian gem city is useless before we can steal IW.
It took me a while to find out how could you gain 4F in Chart. At the cost of 4 cottage turns + 1 pop + 1 anger to gain 4F in Char and scouting in NW, I prefer not doing so.
Still want a settler over worker? Even a worker from Lyons is still not enough. Think about how much you will gain from earlier clam city, 2F1H (a little gain or lose of commerce). The culture revolt of the barbarian gem city is useless before we can steal IW.
It took me a while to find out how could you gain 4F in Chart.
At the cost of 4 cottage turns + 1 pop + 1 anger to gain 4F in Char and scouting in NW, I prefer not doing so.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Spoiler :
If my scouting mission turns out to be failure, we can even redirect my NW WB to explore other landmasses around barb island if they exist or to provide fish net on barb island if need be. Isn't that fantastic?
Spoiler :
I think it is all clear here. Barb archer fighting chariot in a city gets no more than 5% chance. So I don't think that barb issue is no longer in such an issue.
My reason against clam city is not safety but the total empire yield. I hope you can take some time to think about my reasons and run some tests to compare the results. If there is no barbarian, isn't warrior better? If there are, I won't take the 5% chance of losing a city.
