SGOTM 16 - Plastic Ducks

[Duckweed]

@shakabrade

No more suggestion also meant green light from myself as least. Moreover, Abegweit keeps silence and Bebejata does not have time to look into the game most of the time, so the active player only needs 2 votes to approve the plan, although the more, the better.

Coastal tile to reveal seafood and hill tile to reveal more land tiles. The idea is to find seafood as priority.

I don't have more suggestions, maybe kossin has some ideas when he is back tonight.

Edit: if you have time, you can think about the location of Mars

1. As placed in the test, 3E of Paris -- closer (less maintenance), shared more tile with Paris, can clear the forest which lead to faster clam city later.
2. include the Pig -- faster growth later when borrowing Pig from Rh

Also start to check whether Ram gets Alpha, I wish he was Toku, who almost guarantee to research Alpha early.

 

[shakabrade]

Unanimous support. Next time try using magic words to avoid confusion.
Will play when I get some peace.

 

[shakabrade]

Played, save uploaded.

Didn't convert on T90 to Buddhism. I converted to Judaism.



New land:

Spoiler :

Fantastic! Huge island and also more than one tile island NW (you can't see that in the picture well but I have seen that. Besides, border pop in Chartres will reveal more. Good chance for seafood. And Judaism spread to Tours.

Edit: Island NW, Western part. You can see it continues NE.

Spoiler :

Edit 2: Land chariot revealed

Spoiler :

Turn log (from submission page):

Spoiler :

News Update: Humbaba is still alive


Here is your Session Turn Log from 675 BC to 500 BC:

Turn 88, 675 BC: Judaism has spread in Orleans.

Turn 89, 650 BC: You have discovered Mathematics!
Turn 89, 650 BC: You have trained a Settler in Paris. Work has now begun on a Warrior.
Turn 89, 650 BC: You have trained a Settler in Orleans. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 89, 650 BC: Moe Berg (Great Spy) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 90, 625 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 90, 625 BC: Louis XIV converts to Judaism!
Turn 90, 625 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

Turn 91, 600 BC: Marseilles has been founded.
Turn 91, 600 BC: You have trained a Warrior in Paris. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 91, 600 BC: You have constructed a Granary in Tours. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 91, 600 BC: The Pyramids has been built in a far away land!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Judaism has spread in Tours.

Turn 92, 575 BC: Ramesses II adopts Representation!

Turn 93, 550 BC: Paris has grown to size 4.
Turn 93, 550 BC: Paris can hurry Library for 2⇴ with 25ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 93, 550 BC: Orleans can hurry Work Boat for 1⇴ with 23ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 36 turns.
Turn 93, 550 BC: Rheims has grown to size 2.
Turn 93, 550 BC: Rheims can hurry Granary for 1⇴ with 10ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 93, 550 BC: Tours can hurry Work Boat for 1⇴ with 10ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 93, 550 BC: Chartres has been founded.
Turn 93, 550 BC: Orleans will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 93, 550 BC: Lyons will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 93, 550 BC: You have constructed a Granary in Rheims. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.

Turn 94, 525 BC: Orleans has grown to size 6.
Turn 94, 525 BC: Orleans will become unhealthy on the next turn.
Turn 94, 525 BC: Lyons has grown to size 3.
Turn 94, 525 BC: Paris will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 94, 525 BC: Orleans will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 94, 525 BC: Ramesses II has founded Elephantine in a distant land.
Turn 94, 525 BC: Mohammed Shah (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 95, 500 BC: Paris has grown to size 5.
Turn 95, 500 BC: Orleans has grown to size 7.
Turn 95, 500 BC: Orleans has become unhealthy.
Turn 95, 500 BC: The borders of Marseilles are about to expand.

No alphabet, no demands, no resources to trade.

 

[Duckweed]

So 3 FPs are more than good for our 2nd island city, now prepare the next PPP to finish Currency. Maybe a short set of 2 turns to allow scouting the island a bit more. Hurry up.

 

[shakabrade]

So 3 FPs are more than good for our 2nd island city, now prepare the next PPP to finish Currency. Maybe a short set of 2 turns to allow scouting the island a bit more. Hurry up.

Lol! Can't do that now. Getting up in 5 hours and still didn't go to sleep.
Some general thoughts and you correct me if I am wrong:

Paris starts worker, gives a turn of corn to Mars (since Mars will get pigs improved turn later, iIrc, Orleans whips settler. Other things are pretty much normal for those 2 turns if I am not mistaken.

We'll send one worker from Tours to barb island together with settler. So we'll need another worker. From Lyons or Tours. Tours has Judaism and is close to those island cities so we could consider Monastery there and worker from Lyons. With so much land to settle NW and W, I don't find ice islands appealing and Rheims galley I had in mind is no longer required.

Now I go to sleep.

 

[Duckweed]

I agree most of them.

One thing I don't like was that Mars should work on Fish tile instead of Pig tile, before granary 2F2C>3F.

We need 4 island cities to take the benefit of GLH to the full scale, currently there are 2 only although I agree that there's good chance that we can find another 2 in the west. Moreover, every island with seafood should be settled and the earlier, the better. We might postpone the galley build in Rh after LH, but no later, this galley is also useful to ship the spies south.

 

[kossin]

Excellent!

The island N of Chartres is almost assuredly connected to the tile we see NW of Orleans. In that case, we can possibly fit 2 cities there if required.

Ramesses appears to be way southwest, maybe an exploring wb could prove useful after all.

We still have 8 days to finish the next 5 turns... but we're almost at 50% of the time so far and far from 50% of game play... gotta speed it up a bit!

 

[shakabrade]

PPP until Currency will be put today, most probably.

 

[shakabrade]

Test save updated. Didn't bother with southern tiles revealed. I think everything matches real situation.

Will post PPP for 2T 99% tonight and maybe to Currency too.

 

[shakabrade]

You wanted PPP, here's PPP.

T95

Galley to 2W of incense

Tours: worker to FP-->cottage
Orleans: WB to desert island fish
Paris: start Worker, city screen: work riverside PH mine instead of Corn
Marseilles: work corn


T96

Chariot to 2W

Chartres: WB nets the fish
Mars: work Pig
Orleans: whip settler (work horse instead of deer)
Paris: whip Worker
Dilemma in Paris!!!: Grabbing corn back would only give me 5 hammers since food is hammers when building worker, so maybe it'd be better to work hamlet.
It yields 2F3C (+2C from earlier village and town). However if we take more hammers from Corn, we might OF into the library with +100% bonus and also have beakers from earlier Library.
Then again, it is not like we can't just whip the Library. It'd somehow hurt me not to work 5F tile. Feels wrong. Still, I am slightly into not working corn because it'd ruin 2pop whip of Library in Paris if we overflow into it, and if we OF into warrior, those 3hammers are just 3 hammers. Opinions Please.

Research to 0%


T97

Chariot to wherever it reveals most of the land with sea tiles as priority
Galley waits in place

Tours: One worker 1W of Tours-->cottage, other worker to 1W of Wheat
Orleans: settler to incense, start WB to explore NW islands (happiness in Orleans and Rheims due to delaying warriors will not be an issue), horse to deer
Rheims: Whip WB
Paris: worker 2E, start warrior, grab Corn and work it instead of hamlet
Lyons: start worker
Marseilles: work fish and grassland forest


T98

Galley to 1NW of Tours' pig
Chariot explores further

Marseilles: worker start chopping
Lyons: whip worker, worker to wheat-->farm
Rheims: worker on deer-->camp, start LH, WB to Mars
Tours: take an Oasis

Research 100%


T99

Chariot explores and goes to greet settler

Lyons: worker done, go 1SE-->1T in cottage, build warrior
Chartres: WB nets the fish, switch to fish


T100

Chariot explores/goes to greet settler

Worker near Tours to galley, galley goes to 1S of sheep

Tours: Work on grassland riverside cottage, start monastery
Lyons: start warrior, worker to Wheat-->farm
Orleans: Worker to explore NW island, start warrior, send one warrior from garrison to Rheims
Marseilles: chop done, switch grassland to plains forest


T101

Galley unloads settler and worker, chariot is nearby and can protect if need be.

Tours: whip monastery
Lyons: worker to FP-->cottage
Marseilles: whip granary, worker to forest 1S of Mars
Paris: warrior to Rheims
Orleans: grassland hill mine into scientist (not to squeeze beakers for Currency but to generate GP in Orleans rather than Paris).

End of T101, Currency researched with 4B OF into MC, one tenth of decathlon completed.

 

[Duckweed]

You wanted PPP, here's PPP.

T95

Galley to 2W of incense

1N of Pig, settler moves 1 tile faster through the road

Tours: worker to FP-->cottage
Orleans: WB to desert island fish
Paris: start Worker, city screen: work riverside PH mine instead of Corn

Where's 5th citizen works? Silk?

Marseilles: work corn


T96

Chariot to 2W

Chartres: WB nets the fish
Mars: work Pig
Orleans: whip settler (work horse instead of deer)
Paris: whip Worker
Dilemma in Paris!!!: Grabbing corn back would only give me 5 hammers since food is hammers when building worker, so maybe it'd be better to work hamlet.
It yields 2F3C (+2C from earlier village and town). However if we take more hammers from Corn, we might OF into the library with +100% bonus and also have beakers from earlier Library.
Then again, it is not like we can't just whip the Library. It'd somehow hurt me not to work 5F tile. Feels wrong. Still, I am slightly into not working corn because it'd ruin 2pop whip of Library in Paris if we overflow into it, and if we OF into warrior, those 3hammers are just 3 hammers. Opinions Please.

On Corn.

Research to 0%

I am undecided about the build in Orleans and Tours since the map revealed by chariot will affect the decision. It'd be better to pause on T97 after chariot moves.

If there's more good site on the big island, we might want to produce a settler to settle the 3rd island city since Orleans has to produce the 1st GP. Otherwise, we might want to whip a library in Tours and finishing the WB.

I'm also unsure about the happiness issue in Orleans and Rh if you produce a WB in Orleans instead of warriors. Orleans can grows to size7 and Rh will 1 pop whip a WB for Mars at size2 (on T97) and it needs to produce another WB for the Clam city, so only if you want to produce 2 warriors instead of a WB in Rh, I don't see how to handle the happiness issue without the warriors from Orleans.

Regard the chariot move, scouts along the coast. If meeting barbarian archer, prioritize winning odd (i.e. defend across the river).

 

[kossin]

Not much time to review but we can do this: T98 send the northern chariot to the northern tip. The worker is fogbusting the closer tiles. There's also 2W1S that can reveal some tiles.

 

[sossos]

For Tours, my priority is settler(if there's a good spot on the island)>monastary>library.

The monastary + 8 missionaries can gain 1C/turn(=1.25b with libraries) by replacing the warrior and 0.65b/turn at Tours, toghether with the potential 25% bonus from OR. The investment is 30~35h for each city. Therefore, it's better than library.


Orleans is the city for the first GP, but it can also serve settler if needed. The food surplus is 7 even with 2 scientists.

Rheim: by controlling lighthouse progress <30/60, we can keep the flexibility to train WB at Rheim or Mars(which is closer to clam city)
At turn 100, is the 2f tile not better than 4H tile?

In Paris, the library will take effect after turn 105, so I prefer whipping setter and overflow to library. The Paris warrior is too early, so I vote to put the citizen on corn and overflows to library.

 

[shakabrade]

1N of Pig, settler moves 1 tile faster through the road

Oops, Galley position is remnant of the old question: Settle West or North?
I can see what you propose can be faster but worker in Tours doesn't finish cottage before loading and I don't think Tours will see another worker for some time. If tile 4W of sheep is suitable for a city, we don't lose a turn on island city date. I find riverside cottage more important than worst case scenario: 1 turn later city and 1 galley move (which can delay some other city too). On the other hand, I don't think we'll lose any city turn since tile west of the 4W of sheep is coast (90% certainty) and tile NW is a hill. Also, for every move made to west galley has to move back East. So no moves are lost too. If we go your way, we still might finish that cottage at the expense of 1 worker turn on wheat farm (which should have been finished just in time when Lyons grew according to my plan).

I propose galley goes 2S1W on T95 to spawnbust land and sea a bit, and then returns 1NW of pig so settler and worker can load.

Where's 5th citizen works? Silk?

Still not sure. I guess 12 is better than 2

On Corn.

Very elaborate . Why?

I am undecided about the build in Orleans and Tours since the map revealed by chariot will affect the decision. It'd be better to pause on T97 after chariot moves.

Agreed.

I'm also unsure about the happiness issue in Orleans and Rh if you produce a WB in Orleans instead of warriors. Orleans can grows to size7 and Rh will 1 pop whip a WB for Mars at size2 (on T97) and it needs to produce another WB for the Clam city, so only if you want to produce 2 warriors instead of a WB in Rh, I don't see how to handle the happiness issue without the warriors from Orleans.

Warrior from Paris after worker. Also, Orleans produces one warrior for itself just in time the unhappiness should kick in.

Not much time to review but we can do this: T98 send the northern chariot to the northern tip. The worker is fogbusting the closer tiles. There's also 2W1S that can reveal some tiles.

Great idea. 2W1S can spawn some trouble. We should vote. Northern tip is safe.

 

[shakabrade]

For Tours, my priority is settler(if there's a good spot on the island)>monastary>library.

That can happen easily if chariot discovers something.

The monastary + 8 missionaries can gain 1C/turn(=1.25b with libraries) by replacing the warrior and 0.65b/turn at Tours, toghether with the potential 25% bonus from OR. The investment is 30~35h for each city. Therefore, it's better than library.

We might wait a bit for Brennus' missionaries and auto spread of Judaism (free hammers). Also, 8 warriors don't need to mean 8 gold of unit cost. Probably 1-2 gold less. I am not sure how unit maintenance works, but I think it has something to do with city sizes too. At least it did in civ3.

Orleans is the city for the first GP, but it can also serve settler if needed. The food surplus is 7 even with 2 scientists.

Rheim: by controlling lighthouse progress <30/60, we can keep the flexibility to train WB at Rheim or Mars(which is closer to clam city)

Clam city wasn't in nearer plans as I have understood.

At turn 100, is the 2f tile not better than 4H tile?

You are right. 2F is 4.6 hammers then. Past size 5 or six mine would be better.


In Paris, the library will take effect after turn 105, so I prefer whipping setter and overflow to library. The Paris warrior is too early, so I vote to put the citizen on corn and overflows to library.

Thought to 2 pop whip library and leave Paris to grow into Bureaucracy capital after that.

 

[Duckweed]

You wake up in the morning or have not gone to bed?

About the cottage in Tours, I won't delay the settlement of 2nd island city just waiting for the grassland cottage. The compromising way is to let a worker do another turn of cottage on that tile before go for FP cottage, which will delay the FP cottage and hence wheat improvement for 1 turn. Tours will rarely work on the grassland cottage since it will whip a lot and it's common to whip another worker later. I don't mind to skip it or at the cost of delaying FP cottage and wheat, but definitely not delaying 2nd island city.

Lib in Paris is valuable since it's still the best commerce city. So I don't like to produce warrior in Paris instead of finish lib. Paris needs to produce a settler for the clam city.

The scouting of NW is not pressing for the following reasons

1. The border pop of Char will give us more information.
2. Except the 1 from Tours. We don't have the capability of producing more settlers in short time.
3. Galley needs to go back north to pick up the settler if there's spot NW, so that it can scout anyway.

 

[shakabrade]

You wake up in the morning or have not gone to bed?

Not gone to bed. It is ''me time'' now. Even if it means my eyes will start to bleed.

About the cottage in Tours, I won't delay the settlement of 2nd island city just waiting for the grassland cottage. The compromising way is to let a worker do another turn of cottage on that tile before go for FP cottage, which will delay the FP cottage and hence wheat improvement for 1 turn. Tours will rarely work on the grassland cottage since it will whip a lot and it's common to whip another worker later. I don't mind to skip it or at the cost of delaying FP cottage and wheat, but definitely not delaying 2nd island city.

There are circumstances (land configuration and resource position) where one extra move will do nothing to speed up the 2nd island city. And we'll know that in time. All that delaying is such a shame. I wouldn't delay FP cottage and Wheat.

Lib in Paris is valuable since it's still the best commerce city. So I don't like to produce warrior in Paris instead of finish lib. Paris needs to produce a settler for the clam city.

So clam city is on? I thought you guys hated that city.
Ok, I love that city and can agree to postpone NW exploration. We do have enough on our hands.

The scouting of NW is not pressing for the following reasons

1. The border pop of Char will give us more information.
2. Except the 1 from Tours. We don't have the capability of producing more settlers in short time.
3. Galley needs to go back north to pick up the settler if there's spot NW, so that it can scout anyway.

Rheims is not too bad regarding settlers but I agreed already.

@all

Nice and constructive evening/morning. Please don't just wait to react on my writing. I am in a different time zone and my health is starting to suffer from all those all-nighters. Give ideas and fight each other while I am sleeping.

 

[Duckweed]

In fact, spend 1 more turn on the grassland cottage only delay the FP cottage by 1 turn and does not delay the wheat improvement, I guess this option can be considered.

 

[Duckweed]

Time to wake up and play the 2 turns, we are way behind of the schedule now, even the schedule of finishing it in 4 months. We are going to end with a more crappy play than SGOTM14 if not hurry up now.

 

[kossin]

I'll try to pick up the save once shakabrade's done with this set... unless someone has time ('cause I don't really have that much to be honest).