SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

We could definitely ask.

Even better, what about taking Thebes for peace the turn we take Memphis or the turn after when we take Heliopolis & Pi-Ramesses, 2 guerilla II LB's defending a walled hill city will be expensive. They will teleport to the forest, and as long as we don't OB with Brennus, they won't be able to go anywhere once Isca pops its borders.

Obviously this means our galleons have to sail around to his island, but they wil have the time to do it.

What if we ask for Thebes and the island city? He's willing to capitulate, so he might be willing to surrender both.
 
No harm in asking. Worst he can say is No.
 
A couple of questions.

I do agree that attacking Rams now is important as he is a threat for Lib.

While I like the idea of getting the 300 gold from Rams for Philo, are we sure that he wont be ale to get Educ and Lib while at war with us. He may be very close to Educ.

If we do sell it to him, we should sell it to others as well. No point in having Rams with it but not Hammy, SB, Bren, etc.

Remind me on why Tech at 0?

Should we whip Oxf? 3 pop but, ~70bpt at 100% res.

How good do we feel about getting Qin to the point of trading in the next few turns?
 
Also, don't forget to change to SM this turn and reduce research slider to 0%.

The monastery in Isca must finish the turn before we finish SM. Is that right?

If so, we can whip the monastery in Isca on t182. We can tech SM in 2 turns with the bulb, I think. So I leave the slider at 0% next turn (t181), then bulb SM and move the slider to 100% on turn 182, finishing SM on turn 184.

Do I have all this right?

Edit:

No harm in asking. Worst he can say is No.

If he will I should ask in 2 turns when our stack can move into Thebes, yes?
 
A couple of questions.

I do agree that attacking Rams now is important as he is a threat for Lib.

While I like the idea of getting the 300 gold from Rams for Philo, are we sure that he wont be ale to get Educ and Lib while at war with us. He may be very close to Educ.

If we do sell it to him, we should sell it to others as well. No point in having Rams with it but not Hammy, SB, Bren, etc.

Remind me on why Tech at 0?

Should we whip Oxf? 3 pop but, ~70bpt at 100% res.

How good do we feel about getting Qin to the point of trading in the next few turns?

Once we have taken his 3 core cities, his tech rate will be in the hole. He doesn't appear to have any income other than the 3 cottage cities & the shrine, and if we take his saved gold, he will have less ability to do deficit research.
He was only capable of researching Education in the last 4 turns, Trys might be able to tell us exactly when. So even if he is researching it, he won't be that close.

Good point about selling it to the others, as long as they don't have Paper. If they have Paper, then it would be prudent to keep it.

We need to switch tech to 0% mainly in order to whip the Christian monastery in the only city (Isca) we have that has Christianity, before we get SM. Even if we do not bulb the GS, we are 3 turns from finishing SM at 100%. Isca comes out of revolt in 2 turns, and we will whip with no hammers invested, so we will finish it in 3 turns. We also want to whip a Buddhist ones for the AP hammers & UoS beakers.
If we finish SM and a monastery in the same turn = no monastery.

@ whip Oxford, I would vote no. The 3 pop loss means less villages being worked, and Commerce still has 5 more cottages to work.

@ Qin
He will be at +10 on either t181 or t182, so 1 or 2 turns from now, he was pleased at +3. If he isn't Friendly at +10 I will kill myself :suicide:
 
The monastery in Isca must finish the turn before we finish SM. Is that right?
Yes, thats correct

If so, we can whip the monastery in Isca on t182. We can tech SM in 2 turns with the bulb, I think. So I leave the slider at 0% next turn (t181), then bulb SM and move the slider to 100% on turn 182, finishing SM on turn 184.

Do I have all this right?
Yes, this means monastery is completed on t183, and we complete SM on t184.

If he will I should ask in 2 turns when our stack can move into Thebes, yes?
No, ask in 4 turns at the earliest.
In 3 turns we can DoW Ramesses, land troops 1E of Memphis, and march the 2 other stacks into his territory.
On t4 from now, we will take Memphis.
IF you can move some troops to reinforce Thebes on this turn, then do the peace trade.
IF NOT, make the trade the turn after.

As the city is not flipping, rather it is being traded, it will not come with any defenders, and Ramesses has a few HA's roaming about.
 
Don't forget to promote the Pike
Stacks like this:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0077-1.jpg
 
In 3 turns (t182): Sell Philo to Ramesses for all his gold. Declare War on Rammy. Sell Philo (maybe trade with Qin) to everybody without Paper.
In 4 turns: Take 10 turns peace with Brennus for Thebes, and maybe the island city. Move the Thebes stack into Thebes. Take Memphis.

Got it. If SH is good with everything, I can play tonight in 3-4 hours.

Edit:

Don't forget to promote the Pike

OK - PPP updated.
 
Sorry for the confusion.....

We could do that, but I would rather have the 'Thebes' stack move on Heliopolis, so that we have 3 stacks moving on Memphis, Heliopolis & Pi-Ramesses.

The survivors from memphis can reinforce Thebes.

See image in my last post.
 
Sorry for the confusion.....

We could do that, but I would rather have the 'Thebes' stack move on Heliopolis, so that we have 3 stacks moving on Memphis, Heliopolis & Pi-Ramesses.

See image in my last post.

OK - yeah, now I got it. :p A picture is worth a thousand words. Plus, it is hard to picture all this without opening the save.
 
Confusion is my fault, I am a bit too economical with my words. (though not my number of posts obviously :))

That is my great advantage, being able to stare at the save all day at work. (I hope my boss doesn't read this).
 
I checked my saves. Ramesses finished Paper last turn (t179), since he was still willing to trade for it on t178. So he has been researching Education for 1 turn.
 
That is great news, and he might not be doing Education at all, he might be going for Machinery or Philo.

Before you sell him Philo, see how much gold he is willing to give you for Machinery & Edu. If one of them is less than all his gold, you know thats what he is researching.
If he offers all his gold for all 3 of them, then he isn't that close to finishing any of them.

If he is close to finishing Edu (isn't willing to pay all his gold), then don't sell Philo, otherwise go nuts.

edit: I was thinking about SH's suggestion of whiipping OU, and thought maybe 2 pop whipping OU in 2 turns, but if we work a plains cottage instead of a grass cottage, it finishes in 4 turns. I think that is the best scenario. Saves our pop for all the cottages we have to work.

edit2: and yet another little thing: trade SB a spare pig for his banana
 
That's a great idea. I will use the trade request trick to figure out what he is researching.

I've updated the PPP with the tile switch in Commerce.

Edit: OK - trade pigs to SB for banana - got it.

Maple Sporks has gone ahead of us turn-wise again.
 
If he is close to finishing Edu (isn't willing to pay all his gold), then don't sell Philo, otherwise go nuts.

edit: I was thinking about SH's suggestion of whiipping OU, and thought maybe 2 pop whipping OU in 2 turns, but if we work a plains cottage instead of a grass cottage, it finishes in 4 turns. I think that is the best scenario. Saves our pop for all the cottages we have to work.

If he isn't Friendly at +10 I will kill myself
I get the point on the Monastery before SM - makes sense. Thanks.

OK - on the plan to see how close he is to Educ before trading for his gold.

On the whip question - will we get a few :) back once we make peace? And are we planning to take the towns immediately from Paris?

On your last point - please hold off for now.:lol:

Green from me.
 
On the whip question - will we get a few :) back once we make peace? And are we planning to take the towns immediately from Paris?

Yes, good points. OK, 2 pop whip it in 2 turns.

GREEN from me

This nonsense must stop. Will someone speak to kcd about this.
I agree, its an outrage :)
 
Well, we are leading in the important "player posts" and "posts/turn" categories. So there is that...

Also, I am exceedingly disappointed that, as an IND leader, all Rammy built for us was the ToA and the Kong Miao. The ToA might have been nice if we weren't going to capture it just after we made it obsolete.

Yes, good points. OK, 2 pop whip it in 2 turns.

You are killing me. :crazyeye: :D
 
Well, we are leading in the important "player posts" and "posts/turn" categories. So there is that...

Also, I am exceedingly disappointed that, as an IND leader, all Rammy built for us was the ToA and the Kong Miao. The ToA might have been nice if we weren't going to capture it just after we made it obsolete.

You are killing me. :crazyeye: :D

To be fair on Rammy, we stole AP and who knows what else from under him. :)

edit: Sorry, I know I go back and forth a bit..... but its because I listen to counter arguments. :)
 
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