SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

[Revent]

Hey guys. I think I'd like to (momentarily) dropped from the roster. It's come that time where I don't enjoy playing Civ as much Hopefully, it shouldn't last too long and I may get a set in before the end of the SGOTM.

I'll still be chipping in my opinions and looking at the saves, but I don't think I would enjoy playing it at the moment. Thanks!

 

[Trystero]

I'm sorry to hear that. I'll mark you as "on hiatus", and hope you'll rejoin us soon.

 

[neilmeister]

Is Engineering for 40 gold + (5x28=140 trade*multipliers) worth it?

It depends on how you look at it.

We have several main priorities:
1- get our preferred Lib target (is in the bag now IMO, only Ramesses has Paper)
2- get the Economics free GM. (as long as we get Guilds & Banking out of Qin, and he will get to +10 in 1 or 2 turns, no problem)
3- have the AI doing as much researching as possible for us. We need to get them up to speed, we still have plenty of trade ammunition left in the tank.

Qin does not have:
- Engineering - trade for 5 more turns T's
- Gunpowder - Trade for Guilds in 1-2 turns?
- Chemistry - Trade for Banking in 2-3 turns?
- Astro
- Paper
- Education
- SM (we will have this in 4 turns)

Hammy does not have:
- Philo
- Paper
- Gunpowder
- Chemistry
- Guilds
- Education
- SM (we will have this in 4 turns)

Hammy is only +7, but he will get to Friendly eventually and trade us Nationalism.'
We might be well served by getting him to join a war.

 

[neilmeister]

Hey guys. I think I'd like to (momentarily) dropped from the roster. It's come that time where I don't enjoy playing Civ as much Hopefully, it shouldn't last too long and I may get a set in before the end of the SGOTM.

I'll still be chipping in my opinions and looking at the saves, but I don't think I would enjoy playing it at the moment. Thanks!

Please do continue, we have had some good robust discussions, and you have had quite a few great ideas.

Your counter opinion was and is invaluable to the team.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Ok, let's trade him engineering one turn before he would switch into mercantilism.

Sorry to see you go on break Revent. Your contribtution is one of the main things that has pushed is so far this game. Hope you will rejoin us before it is over.

 

[Trystero]

I'd like to continue a few more turns to the capture of Thebes tonight, if possible. I will try to put a mini-PPP plan together sometime this afternoon (this might be hard from work).

I think the immediate objectives are clear enough:
1. capture Thebes
2. build monasteries everywhere it is feasible without greatly delaying SM (most importantly whip the Christian monastery in Isca).

More details to follow.

 

[neilmeister]

Ok, let's trade him engineering one turn before he would switch into mercantilism.

That is right now, he just finished Banking.

If we bribe him, it is immediate and he cannot change any other civic at the same time.

Trys, do you want me to do a rough city build plan?

 

[neilmeister]

Actually, how is this for a different idea. Smash Ramesses now, before he gets Machinery, and worry about Thebes after.

The Galleon stack could land next to Memphis in 2 turns (but it would be 3 to time with the other 2 stacks)
The stack moving towards Thebes could heal and move to a forest 3 tiles from Heliopolis in 2 turns, ready to move invade in 3 turns.
The Isca stack could be in place 2 tiles from Pi-Ramesses in 2 turns, ready to move invade in 3 turns.

This way, the Memphis stack would then be able to attack Thebes and northen egyptian cities after, while the other 2 could mop up the southern and western egyptian cities.

 

[Trystero]

I'm OK with attacking Egypt now, but let me look at it. (Edit: If we are going to do this, I think it diverges significantly enough from the prior PPP, that I should give more time for comment before proceeding. I think the current active participants are me, neil, Chris, and SH.)

Here is my updated city micro (please check):

PPP

Paris - finish Stupa (5t)

GP Farm - finish University (2t) > start Courthouse

Production - switch to monastary (2t) > Market

Commerce - finish Oxford University (5t).

Clams - whip monastery this turn > Market

West Fish - Buddhist temple (5t)

Barb City - switch to monastery, Whip next turn.

Zhou - switch to monastery and whip this turn into UoS.

Fake Humbaba - finish Buddhist monastery next turn > University

West Coast Silk - finish Buddhist monastery (2t) > Market

Wheat - Market (10t)

Red Fish, Blue Fish - spread Buddhism this turn, start monastery - whip ASAP

Bribracte - switch to monastery - slow build (4t) or whip?

Sugar Gems - university, salon, or market?

Ski Resort - whip Buddhist monastery this turn > continue courthouse.

Camel Dumdum - whip Buddhist monastery this turn > start library.

Stone - whip monastery this turn > start temple.

Durnovaria - continue courthouse (8t).

Gergovia - whip Buddhist monastery > temple.

East Coast gems - whip monastery ASAP. (Might not be feasible- city has 1 pop)

Isca - 2 turns of revolt. Important: Whip a Christian monastery the turn it comes out of revolt.

Edit: I think we could have monasteries everywhere but East Coast Gems and maybe RFBF in 3 turns. This would minimize any delay to SM.

 

[neilmeister]

Yes, I agree we have 3 turns. This is dictated mostly by Isca.

Nice build plan!

Zhou - invest 1 turn in monastery before whipping. It will get 62 o/f into Sankore. If you whip this turn, we get no o/f.

Bibracte - Whip the monastery after 1 turn invested

RFBF - Whip the monastery after 1 turn invested

Sugar Gems - Continue with Salon, but change 1 farm to GH mine. (still grows in 2 turns)

Camel Dumdum - maybe wait 1 or preferably 2 turns before whipping, needs to grow.

East Coast Gems - change to LH, we aren't going to finish the monastery.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Actually, how is this for a different idea. Smash Ramesses now, before he gets Machinery, and worry about Thebes after.

The Galleon stack could land next to Memphis in 2 turns (but it would be 3 to time with the other 2 stacks)
The stack moving towards Thebes could heal and move to a forest 3 tiles from Heliopolis in 2 turns, ready to move invade in 3 turns.
The Isca stack could be in place 2 tiles from Pi-Ramesses in 2 turns, ready to move invade in 3 turns.

This way, the Memphis stack would then be able to attack Thebes and northen egyptian cities after, while the other 2 could mop up the southern and western egyptian cities.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Trystero]

Sounds good to me.

OK - I will try to put the rest of the plan together so I can get the formal OK to proceed. I can start the war and SteelHorse can finish it.

 

[Trystero]

If we are going to declare on Ramesses, should we sell him Philo for all his gold?

 

[neilmeister]

Yes indeed, but I would wait and do it the turn we invade. We do not want him selling it to anyone else and he can research Edu.

In other news, the Ducks have submitted another turnset, their power is now only 4 turns earlier than ours at the same value and their score is lower than ours!!!!!

 

[Trystero]

PPP: turns 180-184ish


Trades/Diplomacy:

-Switch all our EP onto Saladin until we can see his research.
-Trade Engineering to Qin this turn for 40 gold and adopting OR.
-Sell Ramesses Philosophy on the turn we declare war for all his gold.
-Sell Music to SB for 30g
-trade SB a spare pig for bananas


City builds:

Paris - finish Stupa (5t)

GP Farm - finish University (2t) > start Courthouse

Production - switch to monastary (2t) > Market

Commerce - whip Oxford University in 2 turns.

Clams - whip monastery this turn > Market

West Fish - Buddhist temple (5t)

Barb City - switch to monastery, Whip next turn.

Zhou - switch to monastery and whip next turn into UoS.

Fake Humbaba - finish Buddhist monastery next turn > University

West Coast Silk - finish Buddhist monastery (2t) > Market

Wheat - Market (10t)

Red Fish, Blue Fish - spread Buddhism this turn, switch to monastery - whip next > market. Switch citizen from spy to coastal tile.

Bribracte - switch to monastery, whip next turn > continue CH

Sugar Gems - start salon, change 1 farm to GH mine.

Ski Resort - whip Buddhist monastery this turn > continue courthouse.

Camel Dumdum - whip Buddhist monastery in 2 turns > start library.

Stone - whip monastery this turn > start temple.

Durnovaria - continue courthouse (8t).

Gergovia - whiip Buddhist monastery > temple.

East Coast Gems - build lighthouse

Isca - 2 turns of revolt. Important: Whip a Christian monastery the turn it comes out of revolt.


Worker Micro:

Continue as before. Mostly cottage new cities as well as chop forests into infrastructure and clear jungle.


War Plans:

Actually, how is this for a different idea. Smash Ramesses now, before he gets Machinery, and worry about Thebes after.

The Galleon stack could land next to Memphis in 2 turns (but it would be 3 to time with the other 2 stacks)
The stack moving towards Thebes could heal and move to a forest 3 tiles from Heliopolis in 2 turns, ready to move invade in 3 turns.
The Isca stack could be in place 2 tiles from Pi-Ramesses in 2 turns, ready to move invade in 3 turns.

This way, the Memphis stack would then be able to attack Thebes and northen egyptian cities after, while the other 2 could mop up the southern and western egyptian cities.

and...

- the floating Mace/Treb could join Pi-Ramesses stack, to even up the numbers
- Bibracte spear to Isca, upgrade to Pike (in case of roaming HA's)
- Treb 10 to stay in Isca, as it can't quite make it, and a HA will eat it for breakfast

After we take Thebes, make 10t peace deal with Brennus for the island city if possible.

 

[neilmeister]

Looks good to me

- Sell Music to SB for 30g.
- the floating Mace/Treb could join Pi-Ramesses stack, to even up the numbers
- Bibracte spear to Isca, upgrade to Pike (in case of roaming HA's)
- Treb 10 to stay in Isca, as it can't quite make it, and a HA will eat it for breakfast

GREEN from me, play at least to the fall of Memphis, hopefully to the fall of all 3 major egyptian cities.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Could we make peace with Brennus for the island city now, and take Thebes later?

 

[neilmeister]

We could definitely ask.

Even better, what about taking Thebes for peace the turn we take Memphis or the turn after when we take Heliopolis & Pi-Ramesses, 2 guerilla II LB's defending a walled hill city will be expensive. They will teleport to the forest, and as long as we don't OB with Brennus, they won't be able to go anywhere once Isca pops its borders.

Obviously this means our galleons have to sail around to his island, but they wil have the time to do it.

 

[neilmeister]

Also, don't forget to change to SM this turn and reduce research slider to 0%.

 

[SteelHorse]

Hey guys. I think I'd like to (momentarily) dropped from the roster. It's come that time where I don't enjoy playing Civ as much Hopefully, it shouldn't last too long and I may get a set in before the end of the SGOTM.

I'll still be chipping in my opinions and looking at the saves, but I don't think I would enjoy playing it at the moment. Thanks!

yes - hope to see you back soon.