SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

[Revent]

Oh my idea was an extreme exaggeration I was just trying to show how FAST this method can be if we went down that route.

Realistically speaking though, I think 3 galleons should do the job.

One from GP farm or Paris and 2 from Zhou/West Fish/Barb City/West coast Silk/Production.

2 galleons head off to bay of benginal. 1 or 2 trebs, rest units. Perhaps build the galleons, send them over empty to target location. Have our units go through Brennus's land and load onto the galleons when they're at the grassland copper. Declare, and on t2 of the war, Bibcarte is ours. Do something similar for Vienne.


As for who to kill, we kill both! We can use their land far better than they can AND Rams has a shrine city or two we could use. (and the ToA)

What our GS should do: I think we should save him for bulbing Education.

 

[neilmeister]

As for who to kill, we kill both! We can use their land far better than they can AND Rams has a shrine city or two we could use. (and the ToA)

What our GS should do: I think we should save him for bulbing Education.

I 100% agree with both of these thoughts.

 

[neilmeister]

All the same questions remain. We can whip pretty fast and pretty hard. I'm sure we can finish civil service this turn if we want to. That will allow us to start on maces next turn.

Have we reached a verdict on Engineering yet? I think overall I'm in the Revent camp. I like engineering for the faster movement and for trebuchets. I'm not a huge fan of catapults and would prefer we spend our hammers on units that won't die. One of the benefits of being this far ahead of Brennus is that we don't have to suicide stuff.

I disagree I think with this whole super naval assault plan though. I think it might be wise to send just ONE stack on boats right at Bibracte and do the rest on foot. The cities are very spread out though, so this war could be slow.

Also, we have to FINISH off an AI. So if we want to make that Brennus we'll have to spend quite some time, or maybe do it over two wars, but that would mean no capitulation. Who would we rather have as a Vassal late game? Brennus or Ramesses?

Great trades!! Don't worry about 30g, you got a lot in gpt, which will count for a lot more in the long run.

@Engineering, How about a compromise?

We could research Engineering after CS in ~6 turns I think, and when its in we have the extra road movement and the Trebs. But that is no reason not to start the war. As you say, its not going to be a quick war, simply because of where his cities are located.

His units are just so sucky, it feels like we are waiting for Tanks to take out longbows

@ Galleons
Also, splitting up the stack on Galleons sounds risky to me, and a good way to prolong the war. Smaller stacks are a lot more vulnerable, and take a lot longer to bombarb down defenses so therefore usually don't!

I would much rather have a huge stack, of 25 units, arrive at a city and bombarb it down to 0% in 1-2 turns, then stroll in. Yes it will take a while to do Tolosa, Bibracte and Vienne with this SOD, but it cannot lose.

Reinforcements would be Trebs, and depending on the progress of the SoD, they could do catch up to the stack, or start in a different direction (Camulodinum & vermilininininininin)

 

[neilmeister]

Just had a look at the save, our economy is on fire, sustainable 60% research rate giving us 243bpt, which is almost what we were getting for 100%.

 

[Revent]

One other thing against starting the war right now:
-We don't know where his stack is or what it consists of
-Reinforcements will be sucky because, well it will take FAR too long for them to get to us.
-Split stack is not as risky as you may think. Combined strength of 6 of our units will be greater than Brennus's stack most likely
-Plus, trebs are needed BEFORE a war starts, no point of them coming after when they're not needed.
-Galleon strategy also has this great benefit: taking Bibcarte and Vienne via Galleons and going straight for Tolosa with our land stack will result in us taking away most of his culture within the first few turns of war. End result? Our units will actually be flying through Brennus's land rather than trudging through one turn at a time


So I agree with Ben that we should get a test game up as close as reasonably possible. We also need to explore Brennus's land and pinpoint some cities and his units and his stack.

edit: I'd also like to mention our rate of culture accumulation is greater than PR's now and we shall be overtaking them shortly.

 

[Benginal]

So I agree with Ben that we should get a test game up as close as reasonably possible. We also need to explore Brennus's land and pinpoint some cities and his units and his stack.

Yeah, we have two wildly different strategies. The test game doesn't even have to be close, but I'd like some sort of gauge.

Also, we have chariots in his land. And we can use his roads, so we should know a lot more than we do in about 4 turns (which is probably when my turnset will end (I'm too scared to be the on who actually does the war)).

 

[Benginal]

Just had a look at the save, our economy is on fire, sustainable 60% research rate giving us 243bpt, which is almost what we were getting for 100%.

It's nice isn't it! And with our GPs coming, I don't think our tech rate will even notice we're at war!

 

[neilmeister]

Splitting our stack is dangerous. Brennus is a unit spammer, so he is bound to have a stack somewhere, probably in Thebes.

I'm not worried about the quality of his units, they are terrible, I am more concerned of the numbers of them.

With our new & improved economy, CS is 2 turns away, Engineering in 9. (assuming we revolt)

Primary targets:
- Tolosa, as taking it will speed up our access
- Bibracte, his cap and best city, has the shrine.

If we focus on just these 2 cities. Build 2 Galleons in Barb City/Production, upgrade the galley, load them with 2 X-bows, 1 Spear, 2 Maces and 4 Cats. Sail them around to the Bay of Benginal.

Build the other stack, made up of Maces, x-Bows and Trebs for Tolosa.


edit: it will take several turns just to sail into position in the Bay of Benginal, if we wait for trebs with this mini-stack it will take forever. In the meantime, we whip Trebs to complement our main stack.

edit2: Perhaps we should use the scouting chariots to rip up the roads that probably exist between Bibracte & Thebes, that should slow his main stack down.

 

[Revent]

Well, if we take his 3 strongest cities, and his stack is near Thebes, that just means we have PLENTY of time for our land reinforcements to join. Having all that culture destroyed will also mean our reinforcements can get there faster.

By the way, who have you guys voted for? I didn't vote (for the second year in a row) because voting from all the way in the UK is a lot of trouble for me and I don't particularly like Romney or Obama

Edit: If an AI has lots of land to expand to, they actually end up building less units. Read that somewhere once. They end up spamming units like no tomorrow though if they got blocked in.

Also, wish me luck on my VERY crucial test tomorrow!!

Edit 2: We could just send 6 units to take down his capital off the bat. They have no chance even with the 60% defense.

 

[neilmeister]

Good luck!!!

In Australia, asking who you voted for is incredibly rude! We were the first country in the world to do secret ballots.

I assume that it isn't rude for Americans.

 

[Revent]

Thanks!

I see, I never actually knew that To be fair, this is the first national election that I have become old enough to vote in so I wouldn't know that is asking is rude :$ Last election, I was too young Besides, I don't often speak with many Americans being in the UK here!

 

[Benginal]

I'm going to take some screenshots for our war prep. Any requests of thinks to take screenies of?

 

[neilmeister]

West coast Galleons is a persuasive argument. They can land troops 2 tiles from Bibracte the turn the war starts.

East coast Galleons are not persuasive, Vienne is 2 tiles from Bibracte, so the troops can walk pretty easily.

So, I will assume we do a west coast galleon surprise attack.

The closest realistic boarding point is next to the pigs, near Barb City, as we do not want to march our troops through his territory. This is 5 turns sailing time from the Bibracte staging point.

So, during this 5 turns, we can supplement our Tolosa stack with Trebs, so the turn we are ready to attack, we have 9 units land near Bibracte, and we have the rest march towards Tolosa.

 

[Benginal]

Question: We can cut down trees in the AIs territory right? I think it will DEFINITELY be worth it to chop down some jungle before we declare

 

[Revent]

West coast Galleons is a persuasive argument. They can land troops 2 tiles from Bibracte the turn the war starts.

East coast Galleons are not persuasive, Vienne is 2 tiles from Bibracte, so the troops can walk pretty easily.

So, I will assume we do a west coast galleon surprise attack.

The closest realistic boarding point is next to the pigs, near Barb City, as we do not want to march our troops through his territory. This is 5 turns sailing time from the Bibracte staging point.

So, during this 5 turns, we can supplement our Tolosa stack with Trebs, so the turn we are ready to attack, we have 9 units land near Bibracte, and we have the rest march towards Tolosa.

Our troops can march through his territory during peace time and board the galleon. The AI is stupid and probably won't think we plan to kick his ass.

Still think an eastern Galleon can take Vienne turn 1 of the war, before Bibicarte is taken.

If we use our 6 from the galleon, x turns to heal whatever x is and the city will be ours in 3 turns. But with the galleon, it is ours on 1 rather than 3. This also lets us join the two mini stacks to form one bigger stack which can then plough through all the remaining cities.

 

[Benginal]

Some unedited screenies:

Spoiler :

 

[neilmeister]

Question: We can cut down trees in the AIs territory right? I think it will DEFINITELY be worth it to chop down some jungle before we declare

Where do you mean?

Building a road is a good idea, but chopping jungles isn't. Our stacks will be 1 move beasts, but a road will help with reinforcements once we have taken Tolosa.

btw, Hammy will give us Crabs, Cows & Clams for our spare horses.

 

[Benginal]

Question: We can cut down trees in the AIs territory right? I think it will DEFINITELY be worth it to chop down some jungle before we declare

Nevermind. That was not a good idea. I'm so used to warring with two move units.

 

[neilmeister]

Our troops can march through his territory during peace time and board the galleon. The AI is stupid and probably won't think we plan to kick his ass.

Still think an eastern Galleon can take Vienne turn 1 of the war, before Bibicarte is taken.

If we use our 6 from the galleon, x turns to heal whatever x is and the city will be ours in 3 turns. But with the galleon, it is ours on 1 rather than 3. This also lets us join the two mini stacks to form one bigger stack which can then plough through all the remaining cities.

Vienne is lower priority, if the only point of having east coast galleons is to take Viennem then they are wasted hammers.

I disagree about moving troops through Brennus, if the AI sees lots of troops, they counter. (not very well I agree, but it could cause him to move his troops from Thebes or start stacking a few more)

 

[Benginal]

Where do you mean?

Building a road is a good idea, but chopping jungles isn't. Our stacks will be 1 move beasts, but a road will help with reinforcements once we have taken Tolosa.

Yes yes, nothing to see here, as you'd say. And I do think we should have 4 workers ready to build a better road system so we can get reinforcements in faster.

btw, Hammy will give us Crabs, Cows & Clams for our spare horses.

I love the three c's!!