SGOTM 19 - Also Sprach Sid

[Doshin]

Our power: 931k
Toku power: 78k
Napoleon power: 681k
HC power: 251k

Average power: 334k
Alex power: (334*5-681-78-251) = 660k

660 vs 681

I'm not sure what variable is considered for bribing war, but if it's any similar to the AI deciding to DoW himself, there shouldn't be any problems.

Thanks. Alex has a lowish iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio of 90. Here it is @ 96.9, but there are probably other variables.

All in favor of:

T141: bribe Alex off Kublai
T142: (1) kill Tokugawa; (2) bribe Alex against Napoleon​

Napoleon is presumably plotting to attack Alex anyway, but we have no control over his actual declaration.

?

We have to bribe Alex off Kublai in any case, if we want to steal Optics.

^^With a lot of cities, for sure.

That's a side-reason to only acquire the corporation goods at the last minute: less upkeep... can't remember if that changes the cost of spreading though.

I don't know whether we should consider building the Hermitage? We would reduce our GPT in the short term, but after 134H it will return a profit whenever it is built. Rice Pudding could 1 or 2-turn it when new units take too long to reach the front.

 

[kossin]

It's not as simple as using iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio I believe.

For instance, Aggressive AIs believe they are 33% stronger than they really are.

Could be tested I suppose.

 

[Duckweed]

@Doshin

I clarified my opinions of many issues in previous posts including the diplomacy and tech path. Some of those posts might not be reply to you directly.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13190675&postcount=1663

The most important thing now is to focus on economy rather than military, we should try to keep 100% slider till completing all necessary techs. Therefore, building wealth in multiple cities is very necessary. I can't emphasize further. For instance, Mycenian has 4 forests, which could finish CH. It should build wealth before start it. In this way, we can translate worker forces and forests into gold and beakers. Cities that needs to rely on whips to complete their build, invest just enough hammers to allow whips. For example, if producing a Cui, 10H is enough in city without forge. We don't need to whip those Cuis immediately on T143, even on T153 might be enough. If necessary, I would not mind letting capital build wealth as well, which leaves only RP and some front cities to whip Cuis (and only whip away farm tiles). After founding corporation, we have at least 5+ turns to clear the map.

 

[Doshin]

Ok. I appreciate the general sentiment of emphasizing the economy and gold.

Your Mycenian example is not great, btw. The city previously had 2 Workers, but now has 3 Workers and 20H in a Courthouse. It generates 2HPT @ size 1, 8HPT @ size 2. I am bringing the city to 22/100H so that the CH only needs 3 chops (22H + 8HPT + 90H).

I am not convinced that we should research Democracy in 1 turn, especially because kcd_swede and Alan_H are in Europe, and unlikely to be online this late. So I prefer to build Wealth > Research.

I'll resume shortly.

 

[Duckweed]

Well, Mycenian has 4 forests, where will the 4th forest that you want to put? Anyway, good that you are aware it now. There are many cities that can start building wealth immediately. Maintaining ~40 Cuis in front should be enough, Alex is an easy pick while his SOD is busying on fighting Nappy.

 

[Doshin]

Music + Compass <----> peace with Kublai + 100G:

Spoiler :

I think I'd prefer to give Paper > Music, so that we can offer Printing Press next turn as part of a bribe. Let me know what you think. I am finishing EOT micro.

 

[kossin]

Paper is fine. No AI will be in range of Liberalism in time.

I do value 1T Democracy, unless you plan on playing several turns tonight...

 

[Duckweed]

^What's the value of 1T earlier Demo, building research is not only less effective, but also has the risk of nothing to be researched if we end the war on T146. Chemistry is 3 turns of research.

Fine to give away paper.

 

[kossin]

Optics		975
Guilds		1625
Banking		1137
Liberalism	2275
Economics	2275
Corporation	2600
Chemistry	2925
Sci Method	3900
Biology		5850
Medicine	7312

Information is important imo; we will at some point build research to speed up techs. This would just start the process earlier.

Liberalism is 2275, so 1896 with discounts. We'll need serious OF to finish it in 1T. Research slider will fall soon before the GM trade mission, together with Chemistry and possibly some into Guilds (depends on War Success) I think 100H of research isn't going to waste anything.

 

[Doshin]

We have enough GPT to research at 100% for 3 turns. The first Great Merchant mission could also be ready on T143, or T144 if we want to wait a turn (hoping Bursa grows).

I plan to play most, if not all of T142, and would prefer to build Wealth. With apologies to kossin.

Edit: did the Paper/Compass deal.

 

[Duckweed]

With those HC's cities come out of revolt, 1500bpt in the last few turns is easy without building research. Any beakers invested to Lib now has the risk of wasting.

How come our bpt will be less than PD at T157 of SGOTM18? No city was building research.

Spoiler :

We are lacking the cash to support the 100% slider all through the end. Building wealth is obvious a better way to spend hammers.

Last, what the value of knowing the mysterious condition 1 turn earlier, can you make it clear? How does it affect our plan?

 

[Doshin]

Exciting IBT :

Spoiler :

So much for stealing Optics, or trying to save Kublai's sorry ass, or bribing Alex against Nappy...

Good news, hopefully:

Spoiler :

 

[kossin]

Too bad... add Optics to the list of pre-Guilds research

 

[Doshin]

Spoiler :

4 defenders, 4 wins. Easier than fighting HC...

 

[Duckweed]

Gift Compass to Nappy and hope he will research Optics. Some of his cities are around the big lake. Nappy DOWed, this also saves the techs to bribe Alex.

 

[kossin]

How come our bpt will be less than PD at T157 of SGOTM18? No city was building research.

Spoiler :

We are lacking the cash to support the 100% slider all through the end. Building wealth is obvious a better way to spend hammers.

Last, what the value of knowing the mysterious condition 1 turn earlier, can you make it clear? How does it affect our plan?

Many reasons, for example: more trade opportunities; a lot more rivers; taking crazy cities from MM (those alone were ~400 bpt at that time); etc.

Cash was almost enough from my estimate without building wealth, and considering less trade gold. Not considering increase in bpt (Mercantilism, cottage growth, new cities)... we will build research. Guaranteed.

 

[Doshin]

Keep Nuremberg?

Spoiler :

Yes from me.

 

[Duckweed]

Many reasons, for example: more trade opportunities; a lot more rivers; taking crazy cities from MM (those alone were ~400 bpt at that time); etc.

Cash was almost enough from my estimate without building wealth, and considering less trade gold. Not considering increase in bpt (Mercantilism, cottage growth, new cities)... we will build research. Guaranteed.

Let's check our bpt ~T155 and see whether it's your expectation.

 

[Duckweed]

Keep Nuremberg?

Spoiler :

Yes from me.

Of course to keep, this city is the middle site between Santiago and the very western resource city Khur.

 

[Doshin]

Nuremberg is heavily defended:

Spoiler :

Let's say 2 Cuirassiers per LB, 3 for the 2 WEs, and 1 per Catapult.

We have 9 Cuirassiers and SM Mace. So I will go for it.