CH only costs 2 pops, and this city only need to grow to size 7 to it's full potential. 2 citizens means at most 3 turns to grow. We could run 12 turn GA if succeed to grab MoM, which means 15 turns of CH cost, probably more than 100g.
SGOTM 19 - Also Sprach Sid
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
CH only costs 2 pops, and this city only need to grow to size 7 to it's full potential. 2 citizens means at most 3 turns to grow. We could run 12 turn GA if succeed to grab MoM, which means 15 turns of CH cost, probably more than 100g.
Looking good. The 
timing works out well in Dye Hard.
When Rice Pudding starts to produce more than 30H a turn, we should build at least one Visibility Chariot before whipping (if we whip at all).
The economy seems quite healthy now.
Vienna now has 192H in present build. It doesn't have an Aqueduct, as far as I can see.
Will post more tomorrow. I only managed four hours of sleep last night.
timing works out well in Dye Hard.When Rice Pudding starts to produce more than 30H a turn, we should build at least one Visibility Chariot before whipping (if we whip at all).
The economy seems quite healthy now.
Vienna now has 192H in present build. It doesn't have an Aqueduct, as far as I can see.
Will post more tomorrow. I only managed four hours of sleep last night.
An interesting boat! I guess we don't need Flight, maybe galleys would be enough.
Spoiler :
Bud spread successfully, we can calculate when we could steal Calendar now. We get 56% discount now, 66% next turn.
Spoiler :
Empire overview
Spoiler :
Calendar = 568b -> 568*1.5 = 852EP base cost
Cost multipliers:
OB: 0.8
Religion: 0.6
Distance: 1.22
Spending: 0.92
Code:
With 10% stationary: 0.47 -> 852*0.47 = 400
With 20% stationary: 0.42 -> 852*0.42 = 357
With 30% stationary: 0.37 -> 852*0.37 = 315
With 40% stationary: 0.31 -> 852*0.31 = 264
With 50% stationary: 0.26 -> 852*0.26 = 221So next turn is first opportunity.
The presence of the Ironclad is good; but whether it moves away from that tile or not is another story. A city there will have no production whatsoever so taking it out becomes problematic. I presume the bad land strip is continuous at the poles so that we can't simply bridge boats from elsewhere.
A short GPP plan will be most welcome, deficit food gpp may be the only way to get an extra GM in a reasonable amount of time.
Wonder gold gets my vote.
Well done!
Will we have other use of EP versus Tokugawa? Besides another tech down the line, I think earlier commerce and
from Dye, Silk etc, may be worth it.The presence of the Ironclad is good; but whether it moves away from that tile or not is another story. A city there will have no production whatsoever so taking it out becomes problematic. I presume the bad land strip is continuous at the poles so that we can't simply bridge boats from elsewhere.
It's not difficult to chain the forts from SeaHorse to that site via the new barbarian city north of Golden sands. We only need a border pop for a city there and can send fleet from other cities.
A short GPP plan will be most welcome, deficit food gpp may be the only way to get an extra GM in a reasonable amount of time.
We are not clear when we could research CS, and when our GP farms will be ready. bureaucracy offers ~15C + 5H per turn, the cost of 3 turns delay is less than ~15 turns delay of CH in Pig/Wheat site. Moreover, we gain more from later GA because of more citizens.
Wonder gold gets my vote.
Which wonder then? Doshin mentioned SoZ. Edit: Or maybe just stick to ToA since we already have some hammers on ToA
Will we have other use of EP versus Tokugawa? Besides another tech down the line, I think earlier commerce and
I think we could use the EPs for at least city revolt later, especially that we aim to HA rush his capital. Still, we have some turns to accumulate more EPs before SOD is ready.
See my reasons above.
Citizens or food storage is not gold, they need to be whipped to produce hammers or work on tiles to produce hammers or commerce. Same question is that why do we want to spend 120g(CH) for 3gpt everywhere.
Yes, which is why I say we should be producing wealth and whip buildings.
A short GPP plan will be most welcome, deficit food gpp may be the only way to get an extra GM in a reasonable amount of time.
Do you want to run a trade mission with the Great Merchant? The mission will be domestic and the ToA is not yet built, so I don't think there's a tremendous hurry.
One problem, which I think you're getting at, is that Great Merchants are tough to generate outside of Caste System, so if Pigs/Wheat is our source, we'll either (a) need to generate ~500GP in the Golden Age before the capital; (b) generate less, but build a Market for the GP slots; (c) begin to generate the GP now and finish it later, in a second GA (Taj?).
(c) seems attractive to me, but it is a little too far away to plan in detail. If we try to generate specialists intensively during the GA in the capital, then (a) may be impossible.
Will we have other use of EP versus Tokugawa? Besides another tech down the line, I think earlier commerce and
I also favor stealing ASAP. This grants maximum flexibility for trading, fail gold, and (if the Spy is caught) we can instantly chop another in Constantinople.
Our AI group is very stingy, and we will soon be totally reliant upon Kublai as this game's "Mansa" figure.
Still, I would favor keeping our EP on Tokugawa.
If we go to war with Tokugawa, we can revolt his capital.
If not, it is quite likely that we'll be able to steal another tech along the Metal Casting/Machinery/Engineering/Gunpowder line. Engineering is especially important. Tokugawa will tech quite well, as long as we remain at peace, because he is small and has several Dye tiles.
I think stealing calendar and then spend our EP on someone else is a good plan.
Wonder gold or wealth should have a priority. Getting CS soon helps a lot.
If Bureaucracy offers ~15C + 5H per turn, then I don't see a good reason to hamper city set-up else where by building Wealth. We need Workers, to improve tiles in advance of the Golden Age, infrastructure, while we are in OR and Slavery, and military units, for military police or to take on Tokugawa.
The delayed GA helps to offset the later switch into Bureaucracy, due to the increased pop and # of improved tiles. It also means that we can generate more fail gold by delaying the MoM.
Building Wealth and then 4/3–pop whipping typically whips away good tiles (e.g. building Wealth and then whipping a Market in Sheepish would lose riverside Cottages in Sheepish). This isn't such a problem in cities that can share tiles, like Constantinople/Sea Horse.
Fail gold is fine, but is unpredictable so should be left to peripheral cities that are low in, like Cornish Cow.
.....
I thought you'd name it in your set. I'm fine with names that is easy to write, especially in short.The OF in Cornish Cow is only a few hammers, I don't mind to put in MoM, but Const needs to produce MoM next turn since the riverside forest is ready to go and we can send 2 workers (plus the worker from Thessa) there to complete the cottage. Moreover, there are a few cities will have more OF to go to MoM, such as the lib whip OF from Thessa, and SeaHorse, plus a worker OF from Sheepish (that's 1 more worker, I really feel that 2 workers in capital and Sheepish are not enough and can't draw worker from other area, Workers around Const need to chop, 1 worker in RP needs to mine.
So this is an issue "if we succeed in stealing Calendar, do we want to whip 1 more worker in Sheepish")
Another Worker whip is fine. Should we grow Sheepish for a few turns and whip at size 8? We would grow onto the Grassland Farm (= size 7) and then riverside Plains (= size 8), stagnate, and whip both tiles away.
The Worker cottaging 2W1N can then head directly to the Silk, along with the Worker in Rice Pudding. Both would lose a turn in transit, but this is unavoidable with the current road network. After the Silk is improved, one Worker could go back to the GH 1N of Rice Pudding while the other stays to complete further Plains Cottages.
----
Short, memorable names or easy abbreviations (BS
) work for me.
The Worker cottaging 2W1N can then head directly to the Silk, along with the Worker in Rice Pudding. Both would lose a turn in transit, but this is unavoidable with the current road network. After the Silk is improved, one Worker could go back to the GH 1N of Rice Pudding while the other stays to complete further Plains Cottages.
----
Short, memorable names or easy abbreviations (BS
) work for me.
Normal luck to succeed at 88% odd.
I uploaded the live save already so you can have a better look. KK still does not have Calendar, Alex has 2g to offer, I'll connect the Rice in Dye Hard immediately to trade.
Toku is only 10g from completing Currency, so that's a trade without doubt.
I uploaded the live save already so you can have a better look. KK still does not have Calendar, Alex has 2g to offer, I'll connect the Rice in Dye Hard immediately to trade.Toku is only 10g from completing Currency, so that's a trade without doubt.
Test game to T96, a good stop since I'm undecided on some worker micros, especially in capital.
If we want to complete HG as soon as possible, then we need to work on hill tiles and I am going to send a worker to mine another GH immediately. Or if we want to prioritize cottages, then a worker could complete a plain cottage this turn. Or do we want to grow capital 1 turn faster by working on the 2F1H tile.
South part of empire, also as you can see, we could complete CS in ~5 turns, that's T101. Obviously most cities are still not big enough.
North part of empire. Cornish Cow is building Parth since TOA was gone in test game, in real game, it's going to build ToA.
MoM OF is in SeaHorse, Thessa, and Sheepish as you can see.
Trade: Beside the trades already mentioned above, we are going to take any resource trade available (with extra resource or same result resource). Moreover, Construction if available from KK next turn. I won't trade away Phi though.
If we want to complete HG as soon as possible, then we need to work on hill tiles and I am going to send a worker to mine another GH immediately. Or if we want to prioritize cottages, then a worker could complete a plain cottage this turn. Or do we want to grow capital 1 turn faster by working on the 2F1H tile.
Spoiler :
South part of empire, also as you can see, we could complete CS in ~5 turns, that's T101. Obviously most cities are still not big enough.
Spoiler :
North part of empire. Cornish Cow is building Parth since TOA was gone in test game, in real game, it's going to build ToA.
Spoiler :
MoM OF is in SeaHorse, Thessa, and Sheepish as you can see.
Trade: Beside the trades already mentioned above, we are going to take any resource trade available (with extra resource or same result resource). Moreover, Construction if available from KK next turn. I won't trade away Phi though.
The test and general outline looks good.
In Rice Pudding, the Worker could Cottage the tile with a road:
Dye Hard: LH before a Courthouse seems fine to me.
Sea Horse: this needs a Warrior or will need to borrow a unit from Constantinople. Edit: I see a Warrior on the way.
Case Depart: my inclination would be to work the Grassland Hill. You can switch it to the irrigated Plains for one turn, to speed up growth.
Plains Cottages are pretty weak. We could start working them during the Golden Age, as the
and will double even before the Bureaucracy bonus. It depends on how much we value Great People (if we are running massed specialists, will the Plains Cottages even be worked?).
Do you want to settle a Silver city before building the Hanging Gardens? The idea would be to settle 2N of the Silver, build Culture, pop the borders, and grow from size 2 ---> on an irrigated grassland. We'd then stagnate @ size 3 on the Grassland/Spices/Silver.
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What turn will the MoM finish?
Can we delay a chop or two and Cottage another tile > working the Lake?
In Rice Pudding, the Worker could Cottage the tile with a road:
Spoiler :
Dye Hard: LH before a Courthouse seems fine to me.
Sea Horse: this needs a Warrior or will need to borrow a unit from Constantinople. Edit: I see a Warrior on the way.
Case Depart: my inclination would be to work the Grassland Hill. You can switch it to the irrigated Plains for one turn, to speed up growth.
Plains Cottages are pretty weak. We could start working them during the Golden Age, as the
and will double even before the Bureaucracy bonus. It depends on how much we value Great People (if we are running massed specialists, will the Plains Cottages even be worked?).Do you want to settle a Silver city before building the Hanging Gardens? The idea would be to settle 2N of the Silver, build Culture, pop the borders, and grow from size 2 ---> on an irrigated grassland. We'd then stagnate @ size 3 on the Grassland/Spices/Silver.
----
What turn will the MoM finish?
Can we delay a chop or two and Cottage another tile > working the Lake?
Constantinople seems like the area with greatest room for improvement, since the Lake tile is so-so to work, and the Ivory is definitely weak when building Wealth (-1 
+1 
+1 in total).
Can you alter the Worker micro, so that we improve more tiles early on here and chop later? Or can you set up a 2-pop whip (Worker? Monastery?) in advance?
+1 +1 in total).Can you alter the Worker micro, so that we improve more tiles early on here and chop later? Or can you set up a 2-pop whip (Worker? Monastery?) in advance?
If HG is not in jeopardy (it doesn't appear to be) then there's no real rush to complete it. The earlier populations are somewhat countered by the high food gain at larger size.
That being said, 10 extra population for 2+ turns is quite something.
Why are we still producing BM's ?
That being said, 10 extra population for 2+ turns is quite something.
Why are we still producing BM's ?
The test and general outline looks good.
In Rice Pudding, the Worker could Cottage the tile with a road:
Spoiler :
Dye Hard: LH before a Courthouse seems fine to me.
Sea Horse: this needs a Warrior or will need to borrow a unit from Constantinople. Edit: I see a Warrior on the way.
Case Depart: my inclination would be to work the Grassland Hill. You can switch it to the irrigated Plains for one turn, to speed up growth.
Plains Cottages are pretty weak. We could start working them during the Golden Age, as the
Do you want to settle a Silver city before building the Hanging Gardens? The idea would be to settle 2N of the Silver, build Culture, pop the borders, and grow from size 2 ---> on an irrigated grassland. We'd then stagnate @ size 3 on the Grassland/Spices/Silver.
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What turn will the MoM finish?
Edit: I have not paid attention to the date, but 2 more forest chop on top of the test is needed.
Can we delay a chop or two and Cottage another tile > working the Lake?
You mean Cornish Cow, right? My plan is to move the current worker to the plain tile 1W of the city and chop the forest, OF can go to MoM. In the mean time, Start a worker on T98 and got 1 more worker on T100, this 2 workers can chain irrigate 2 plain tiles to gain 1F on Corn.
About capital micro, as I said, I'm undecided. Working on cottages (especially in capital) as soon as possible worth more than it looks on the screen. When to launch the 1st GA is not very clear to me as well.
I'd like to settle the silver site, although kossin might
again. However, it's quite a cost in the near future since we can't spare any worker for the moment.In Const, yes, I could delay the chop of 2 forests and improve the 1S grassland 1st. I don't want to whip Const any more since it'd better to let it grow as big as possible so that it can hire 7 specialists and can still work on cottages.
I think HAs rush Toku is quite promising from current situation. We need to revolt at least his capital and his cities are our soon, so spreading Bud to his cities looks good. Moreover, missionary whip offers a big OF to MoM.
