SGOTM 19 - Also Sprach Sid

[kossin]

Stuff keeps coming up, I don't have that much time today.

Immediate turn:

• Peace with Alex, Open Borders
• US/NH/Slavery/Economics/Theology
• Check the culture hole near Istanbul... then move 10~12 Cuirassiers there to attack the inner cities.
• Outside cities will be handled with reinforcements and some of the current troops there
• Found Sushi
• Whip Aksum
• Focus on food for cities that will whip
• Start additional settlers (new-Samsun, 3 bumpers)

HRE cities will whip Explorers and then be gifted to Alex in a few turns, preferably after we're done bumping Executives.

~~~

Time is short, I will look at the bumpers to find suitable locations. Each bumping city will have to go to a different AI (or we can use HC for several cities actually), the last bump should occur on T159 when we eliminate the last AIs.

 

[Doshin]

Vienna and Aachen need to whip some Cuirassiers, so that we do not need to draw many troops back to this area. Depending on how early you attack (T155–7), 3–6 units will be needed for HC's city in the NW corner.

Draft Muskets could help capture French cities, or the Iron/Sheep barb city. But the units produced by whipping offer more to us than draft units, on the whole.

See how many troops will be produced by Buddhist cities, and how many by Hindu. If Japan and Spain produce the majority of our new troops, we may do better switching into Hinduism.

Besides the culture hole, there are other ways to access Napoleon's core via the south. If we have sufficient troops, these can be moved now, where you are confident that reinforcements that arrive (or heal) on T152/3 will be enough to capture the border cities.

What is your plan for Damascus? Cease-fire, whip and gift Augsberg, redeclare and recapture? Or...?

Whale City needs to be gifted in the final few turns. Whale City and Bump cities should be gifted before we return Inca cities to Alex or HC, as these will be liberated and have much lower maintenance fees for the AI (which means they are more likely to accept a gift).

 

[kossin]

Barcelona > Seville

Spoiler :

Golden Sands > Cornish Cow

Spoiler :

Sea Horse > Rice Pudding

Spoiler :

Yeha > Mycenian

Spoiler :

Together with the 3 HRE cities we want to raze, that makes 6 cities to gift:
3 to HC and 3 to Alex.

 

[kossin]

Vienna and Aachen need to whip some Cuirassiers, so that we do not need to draw many troops back to this area. Depending on how early you attack (T155–7), 3–6 units will be needed for HC's city in the NW corner.

We currently have 2 Cuirassiers here. We need 3 to raze ex-HC cities once they are gifted (Alex - and he needs to be given all 3 HRE cities). Vienna, Aachen and Augsburg can contribute ~3 Cuirassiers.

Draft Muskets could help capture French cities, or the Iron/Sheep barb city. But the units produced by whipping offer more to us than draft units, on the whole.
That, and Muskets are slow and get poor odds unless facing Spears/Axes and maybe Swords.

See how many troops will be produced by Buddhist cities, and how many by Hindu. If Japan and Spain produce the majority of our new troops, we may do better switching into Hinduism.
Good idea. Hinduism is slightly more useful due to city proximity, I think.

Besides the culture hole, there are other ways to access Napoleon's core via the south. If we have sufficient troops, these can be moved now, where you are confident that reinforcements that arrive (or heal) on T152/3 will be enough to capture the border cities.
The good part about the culture hole is that it's reachable in 2T and gives us access to the 3 cities that are likely to produce the most units (minus Bursa, but we'll have a stack for that city). There isn't so much merit for attacking from the south, and we don't have that many units really.
What is your plan for Damascus? Cease-fire, whip and gift Augsberg, redeclare and recapture? Or...?
Still working on the logistics, but I don't want to capture it right now.

Whale City needs to be gifted in the final few turns. Whale City and Bump cities should be gifted before we return Inca cities to Alex or HC, as these will be liberated and have much lower maintenance fees for the AI (which means they are more likely to accept a gift).
I had forgotten Ironclad city. That means one city would have to go to Napoleon for bumping purposes. We need to look at how long HC/Alex will refuse to speak to us.

Quoting bestsss...

Yes, the post is correct, this is what I got:
base*(20 + (1+AI_warSuccess)*160/(1+humanWarSuccess))/100
Also the formula is applicable only if the human war success is at over twice higher than the AI.

HC: base = 8
Alex: base = 8

If we capture 1 city and get no casualties: 3 turns refuse to talk. That should be plenty of time.

 

[kossin]

Damascus: 2 options
-use OB to shuffle troops to the south of Damascus, away from Napoleon's larger stack
-DoW Alex T153, move in 7~8 Cuirassiers
-T154, Napoleon will have started bombarding Damascus, so it will be that much easier to attack
-T154 raze Damascus
-ignore Napoleon stack as long as possible

or

-cease fire, OB and heal
-kill Napoleon stack
-DoW Alex and kill him

First option would be faster but we'd be stuck handling his SoD at some point. In either case, we'll have Cuirassiers around Damascus for several turns to handle both the city and Napoleon units.

Open to suggestions for this part, but there doesn't seem to be any good solutions.

 

[soundjata]

^^
My suggestion still holds as

I suggest letting Nappy grind against Damascus while healing and massing at his borders/ garrisoning in SnowCrab.

- Use our cuirs to destroy Nappy cities in the South (East of Snowcrab)
- Guarrison a few to hold the place (while our others waves of attackers swarm from the North and the East)
- Come back to Nappy's stack when he's taken Damascus.

While Duckweed is right this is not efficient in terms of troop movement, it is probably more efficient in terms of having to kill less units.

Spoiler :

Tidal waves style: back and forth crush

Turn 149 and 150, I had better followed my original idea of not moving any unit in the vicinity of Damascus

 

[Duckweed]

[*]Check the culture hole near Istanbul... then move 10~12 Cuirassiers there to attack the inner cities.

I'm nor sure this is a good idea, we lose turns to travel which can be used for healing. The only thing to gain is removing a strong production city, which is trivial now. What we want is the most efficient path for razing his cities. Multi-stacks from out to inside is best.

One thing to be considered is whether the way to the south pole carb city is cleared in time.

 

[soundjata]

I'm nor sure this is a good idea, we lose turns to travel which can be used for healing. The only thing to gain is removing a strong production city, which is trivial now. What we want is the most efficient path for razing his cities. Multi-stacks from out to inside is best.
Agreed
One thing to be considered is whether the way to the south pole carb city is cleared in time.

6chars

 

[Doshin]

I think there was a communications breakdown on T149, since the plan was always to ceasefire with Alex after Mecca, hence no need to move hurt units to attack Damascus.

I don't have the save open, so take this with a pinch of salt. I would:

Cease-fire and gift Alex Augsberg in 2–3 turns.

Leave Nappy to attack Damascus. Gather badly hurt Cuirassiers into this area, and add a Super <--- optional Medic to the group. (Mostly) healthy units need to move to Nappy's core

The badly hurt units will require 3&#8211;4 turns to heal. After 4 turns, Napoleon will be about ready to attack. We will need 1 turn to travel through the culture, and can then attack whoever owns the city. We just need enough troops to carry this out: if our stack is wiped out in a counter attack, it shouldn't matter.

Healthy units in this area move east, to Konya etc.

----

The stack that has formed in the east could move further west and attack a city from the south. Our reinforcements can get to the Cow/Stone city very easily. Again, I don't have the save open, so we'll have to check numbers.

Just a reminder: Snowcrab is incorrectly marked on the save. There is a location that will only consume 11 turns of movement from "Samsun" (resettled) to Snowcrab.

Without Caste, Snowcrab will need 2&#8211;3 turns to pop its borders. Settling later than T154/5 (I haven't checked exactly) will mean we need to rush or chop a Workboat from scratch.

 

[kossin]

I'm nor sure this is a good idea, we lose turns to travel which can be used for healing. The only thing to gain is removing a strong production city, which is trivial now. What we want is the most efficient path for razing his cities. Multi-stacks from out to inside is best.

One thing to be considered is whether the way to the south pole carb city is cleared in time.

Allow me to disagree once more
Units that require healing will stay put and go for edge cities. There is, OTOH, quite a good number of healthy units that can go there and would simply be wasting taxpayer money in the meantime.

DoW can't happen before T153, there are not enough healthy troops in place (see the west). That gives us 6 turns to wipe him out. All the extra movement gained by Cuirassiers on the outskirts is certainly worth it.

The 2 'free' turns now will be worth it.

Leave Nappy to attack Damascus. Gather badly hurt Cuirassiers into this area, and add a Super Medic to the group. (Mostly) healthy units need to move to Nappy's core

The badly hurt units will require 3–4 turns to heal. After 4 turns, Napoleon will be about ready to attack. We will need 1 turn to travel through the culture, and can then attack whoever owns the city. We just need enough troops to carry this out: if our stack is wiped out in a counter attack, it shouldn't matter.

Healthy units in this area move east, to Konya etc.
That's the first option I proposed. Others were silent on the issue so you have a few hours to voice opinions/suggest alternatives.

----

The stack that has formed in the east could move further west and attack a city from the south. Our reinforcements can get to the Cow/Stone city very easily. Again, I don't have the save open, so we'll have to check numbers.

Just a reminder: Snowcrab is incorrectly marked on the save. There is a location that will only consume 11 turns of movement from "Samsun" (resettled) to Snowcrab.

Without Caste, Snowcrab will need 2–3 turns to pop its borders. Settling later than T154/5 (I haven't checked exactly) will mean we need to rush or chop a Workboat from scratch.

We will produce more troops, but not that many. Executive plan is quite intense with all those 5-pop whips. The area near Mycenian should be cleared so that we can make our bumping city and add necessary roads to the area in time.

Snowcrab and Samsun can be placed in a few different ways, but 11 tiles is the goal.

~~~

As I said earlier, things came up and I may only get to play a little tonight. Don't count too much on me for the end and do plan some time. As I said when signing up:

I might be lurking more than anything else but I can still fill a regular position.

Sorry

 

[Duckweed]

One more thing to remind, we don't need to wait for all the stacks ready to start the war with Nappy. Because Nappy is already in war mode, there's nothing to lose to start war earlier. Any stack that is ready can be the time to start the war. Just be sure that there's no wander units in Alex's empire ruins.

xpost with kossin.

The above reason is the answer to your arguments. We could use the healthy Cuis capture the nearby cities 1st. Probably next turn.

 

[soundjata]

@ Kossin: Your post #2100 on the previous page led me to think you were willing to complete the game. Maybe I misinterpreted that...

I don't mind keeping some turns on my side if it can help

 

[soundjata]

If I get a few greenlights (ideally, Kossin's), I could play one turn now. (I am on duty from home this week and expecting work calls along the night anyways )

I could play T151 following this guideline:

Immediate turn:

• Peace with Alex, Open Borders
• US/NH/Slavery/Economics/Theology
• Check the culture hole near Istanbul... then move 10~12 Cuirassiers there to attack the inner cities.
  Here I'd rather follow my original plan, which was from outside to inside Nappy Land.
• Outside cities will be handled with reinforcements and some of the current troops there
  See above. IMO reinforcements are not needed except for fogbusting and capturing the last barb city + HC cities. Nappy's stack can be dealt with by the leftovers from Konya stack (parking in snowcrab)
• Found Sushi
• Whip Aksum
• Focus on food for cities that will whip
• Start additional settlers (new-Samsun already in the queue, 3 bumpers)

HRE cities will whip Explorers cuirassiers and then be gifted to Alex in a few turns, preferably after we're done bumping Executives.

~~~

Time is short, I will look at the bumpers to find suitable locations. Each bumping city will have to go to a different AI (or we can use HC for several cities actually), the last bump should occur on T159 when we eliminate the last AIs.

One thing I am missing is the final spreading plan. It probably does not matter until next turn as we have a consensus on city #1.

Will take the save in 10' if no objection

 

[Duckweed]

I'm not sure whether kossin made some movements already. So wait for his reply 1st.

My PC just died this morning so I can't really help in the last few days.

From my memory, there are quite a few city micros to be changed. No infrastructure build in any city. No research, but wealth in tiny cities is fine.

The major draft sites should be the sheep city and some cities near the border. Cities that can't grow up to size 10 in time should focus on Cui whip in the next 5 turns.

Regarding the spreading plan, what Doshin posted is good enough.

 

[soundjata]

I'm not sure whether kossin made some movements already. So wait for his reply 1st.
ok then.

My PC just died this morning so I can't really help in the last few days.

From my memory, there are quite a few city micros to be changed. No infrastructure build in any city. No research, but wealth in tiny cities is fine.
I am aware of that.

The major draft sites should be the sheep city and some cities near the border. Cities that can't grow up to size 10 in time should focus on Cui whip in the next 5 turns.
this is clear.

Regarding the spreading plan, what Doshin posted is good enough.

Not good enough for me. I need a clean table

 

[soundjata]

By the way, I see no reason to worry at all about Napoleon!

On turn 152, we have 8 units ready to strike from the east (Malatya T152 + Bursa on T153), 11 units from the North (Bantu 152, Samsun 152, Gazianthep 153), 10 units from the south west Kayseri 152 and Konya 153) and another stack of heavily promoted units near the ruins of Mecca, ready to strike the main force of Napoleon, which is inexorably attracted by Damascus.

In case it isn't clear, I support a DOW on T152.

On T156 Nappy's reduced to one city for sure.

 

[Duckweed]

As I said before, the major usage of drafted units is for fogbust, but not for capturing cities since they are too slow.

You can refer to kossin's plan of bumping site and produce the settlers from nearby, for instance, sheepish and Cornish Cow, Also remember to send workers to road those potential tiles to be bumped.

 

[Doshin]

Wait for Kossin too. My plan would do in a pinch, but it is hardly optimized. I paid no attention to which cities are able (and need) to grow (and therefore whip), which cities need to gold rush (because they can't grow), when we need to gift which cities to which AI...

No hostility meant )) but 10/160 turns of play for the game seems a light turn load to me. There is more to do, because it is the late game, but the situation is much less tense than during the barb invasion, or the war with Asoka, or preparing a stack for Tokugawa/Kublai.

Again, no hostility mode.

 

[Duckweed]

No hostility meant )) but 10/160 turns of play for the game seems a light turn load to me. There is more to do, because it is the late game, but the situation is much less tense than during the barb invasion, or the war with Asoka, or preparing a stack Tokugawa/Kublai.

The barbarian AI in your set was quite smart. I hope that you don't live under the shadow of SID -- the barbarian leader.

If kossin can't play much, could you take turns to play with soundjata to close? I'd love to, but my laptop is really slow at running game in later stage. (This is the 2nd time that my new PC requires technical support)

 

[soundjata]

Wait for Kossin too. My plan would do in a pinch, but it is hardly optimized. I paid no attention to which cities are able (and need) to grow (and therefore whip), which cities need to gold rush (because they can't grow)
Exactly, and for this reason, the 9 turn plan might not be feasible. (we can't afford too many rush-buy... less than one per turn I think)
Furthermore, the 10 turns plan does not require any bump city

, when we need to gift which cities to which AI...

The last question is a total mystery to me

Going offline now.
Go Go Kossin