SGOTM 19 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Got it!

Nice smoke job nocho. :dubious:

Looking good overall imo.

Remember that we dont actualy need to destroy/conquer every city. All we need is for them to give us open borders and hand over all seafood in the peace deals.

I know that in most cases burning down will be easier then spreading the corp. I just wanted to remind you that we still got that option available.
I just read that again...

"every city must have a franchise of your monopoly corp"
Burn more, leave none, all cities have corp when sleepless burns the last one down for a Conquest Win!:rotfl::rotfl:

More coming....
 
US will still be needed even with slavery, if only to rushbuy workboats in those new cities we found to pick up Sid resources. No pop to whip there. ;)

Conquest looks like the way to go.

Where do we found HQ? Aksum?
 
US will still be needed even with slavery, if only to rushbuy workboats in those new cities we found to pick up Sid resources. No pop to whip there. ;)
Agree
Conquest looks like the way to go.
Agree
Where do we found HQ? Aksum?

HQ ??? We are almost set up for Aksum and GP Farm. Aksum is still lacking Grocery, GPF is working on Bank. No chance of Wall Street either location, so GPF seems more centrally located and farther from the war front. Start spreading at the back end first.

PPP

Switch Civics to

US/Nationhood/Slavery/Free Market/Free Religion

Tech to Medicine and then turn off tech.

Found Sushi in Primary GPF and spread ASAP with slavery and rush buying in many directions at once. Execs go east > north > south > west.

Raze every city except Sushi resource cities.

Keepers include, Parthian and Mainz and Island City only.

Ulm I would burn and replace 2W of Santiago(burned), grabbing Clam/Banana/Gems/Horse

KK has a WB in his Island city now. If he nets the fish, we can found on the shore and get the resource. Will keeping the island city give us 1 overseas trade route? If so, it is definitely worth keeping imo and saves a settler.

Goals

1) Destroy as many AI cities as possible as fast as possible.
2) Spread Sushi as fast as possible.
3) Found remaining resource cites and connect the resources.

Pausing in 5 turns
Stopping in 10
Stopping if we win 1st!

Plan to play sometime after 36 hours from this post.
 
US will still be needed even with slavery, if only to rushbuy workboats in those new cities we found to pick up Sid resources. No pop to whip there. ;)

If we found them earlier, there might be time for pop growth and a whip. Especially if we spread Sushi to them, they will have plenty of food and will grow fast.

Conquest looks like the way to go.

Agree.

Where do we found HQ? Aksum?

It needs to be somewhere with a market, grocer, and bank already completed. Plenty of hammers so it can produce execs. Centrally located would also be good. Plenty of pop would be a bonus so we can whip the first few execs without investing hammers. I think we were considering the GP Farm earlier, but Aksum could work if it has the needed buildings.

I am wondering about our research rate, post golden age and without Representation/Merc specialists. The screenshot shows about 4 1/4 turns remaining, but that is with golden age and the Rep/Merc beakers. From the 754 bpt shown, call it about 3200 beakers (displayed beakers, not actual beakers) remaining. We do get one more golden age turn of science applied, though, so call it about 2450 (displayed) beakers needed after the golden age ends.

We lose 27 Merc specialists providing 3 bpt each from Rep, or 81 base beakers. Assume most of them are getting some bonus from library/uni, so maybe 110 beakers. (I am not counting any beaker value from the specialists themselves, as I think most are probably engineers or merchants. But we do lose hammers and gold as well.)

We are running at deficit at 50%, and after the golden age we are likely to be more like 20-30% at breakeven, without golden age boosted tiles. So of the ~645 non-Rep beakers I would guess we will see a drop of maybe a third? So 2/3 of 645 leaves us with maybe 430 bpt (displayed). So 5-6 turns after the golden age ends we should finish Medicine.

OK, that is better than I was worrying. If we manage some city capture gold or a little wealth building in the next few turns, we can probably have Medicine done about 5 turns from now. :) Then we found Sushi and immediately begin rushing execs.
 
Found Sushi in Primary GPF and spread ASAP with slavery and rush buying in many directions at once. Execs go east > north > south > west.

I would include some whipping of execs, rather than rush buying. Primary GP Farm has lots of pop, let's spend some of it getting those first few execs out. Don't bother investing hammers, just whip them from scratch.

I do strongly agree about spreading in all directions. We want to build execs as fast as possible, and then have them travel to a city and spread on the same turn they are built. We can only have 5 execs at a time including those in build queues, so any exec that takes more than one turn to reach a target city is one we can not build that turn. So we do not want to fill in all our cities in one area, but instead to be building and spreading in parallel in different directions. And as cities closer to the HQ get the corporation, those cities then build the execs for the next ring of cities -- we don't want to keep building execs close to the HQ and then have them spend time travelling.

Maybe we should make a list of target cities and the order spread should occur? I think there are potentially significant gains to be made by optimizing this process. I will try to find time to look at the save and plan some spread patterns, see if I can come up with a plan.

Raze every city except Sushi resource cities.

Keepers include, Parthian and Mainz and Island City only.

Where is the Great Wall? I liked Sleepless' idea of perhaps keeping that city, to prevent barbs from entering our territory and causing trouble. Although if we have enough units we can just fogbust everything.

Ulm I would burn and replace 2W of Santiago(burned), grabbing Clam/Banana/Gems/Horse

If we can be sure to have cleared any other cultural influence, I like this idea. The gems could be useful, and we can found this city earlier and spread Sushi to it so it has plenty of culture and food. No need to wait for Ulm to come out of anarchy and pop borders.

It does mean we need a settler ready to go for this replacement. Do we have our settlers for the northern ice seafood cities ready and in position? Will we have them all connected to our network, or do we need some roads? If we need roads, are workers getting them built? Do we want roads to speed execs getting to the northern ice cities?

KK has a WB in his Island city now. If he nets the fish, we can found on the shore and get the resource. Will keeping the island city give us 1 overseas trade route? If so, it is definitely worth keeping imo and saves a settler.

The island city would give us an overseas trade route for every other city. But it will need to come out of anarchy first. Worth it to burn the city and replace it with a settler to save some turns of anarchy? I think it would be, so maybe we need another settler ready on a boat to go with our naval task force?

Goals

1) Destroy as many AI cities as possible as fast as possible.
2) Spread Sushi as fast as possible.
3) Found remaining resource cites and connect the resources.

Pausing in 5 turns
Stopping in 10
Stopping if we win 1st!

Plan to play sometime after 36 hours from this post.

Sounds good to me, Ronnie1. :) I really think we need to put together a corporate spread plan, in terms of when we reach Medicine. Something like:

Medicine + 0 turns: Found Sushi HQ in Primary GP Farm, queue exec in Primary GP Farm, whip it complete

Med + 1 turns: Exec #1 moves to Clam Bake (or wherever) and spreads corp. Queue execs in Primary GP Farm and Clam Bake, whip them complete.

Med + 2 turns: Exec from Clam Bake moves to The Farm and spreads corp. Exec from Primary GP Farm moves to Thessalonica and spreads corp. Queue execs in Primary GP Farm, Clam Bake, Thessalonica, and The Farm, whip all complete.

Etc. Do we have a road on either of those hills 2S1E/2S2E of Primary GP Farm? Without one we can not reach Cold Ponies in one turn, so would need to spread from Thessalonica instead. And unfortunately an exec from Clam Bake can not reach Sugar^2 and spread in one turn. So we will lose one exec-turn here. :( But every turn from this point on we should build 5 execs and use all 5 each turn.

So...

Med + 3 turns:

Exec from Clam Bake moves to Sugar^2 (no spread this turn).
Exec from Thessalonica moves to Cold Ponies and spreads corp.
Exec from Primary GP Farm moves to Nicaea and spreads corp.
Exec from The Farm moves to Lalibela and spreads corp.

No more execs from Primary GP Farm or Clam Bake (can not reach new cities in 1 turn).

Queue execs in The Farm, Lalibela, Nicaea, Thessalonica. Whip them all complete. (Or cash rush rather than whip, but I think whipping is likely the better option.) One exec in motion for 5 total.

Med + 4 turns:

Moving exec reaches Sugar^2 and spreads corp.
Exec from The Farm moves to Golden and spreads corp.
Exec from Lalibela moves to Addis Ababa and spreads corp.
Exec from Nicaea moves to Nicomedia and spreads corp.
Exec from Thessalonica moves to Cold Ponies and spreads corp.

Sugar^2, Thessalonica, Cold Ponies, Lalibela, Nicomedia queue execs, whip/but them complete.

This can be further extended and optimized. We may want to push westward harder on Med +4, delaying exec builds in Sugar^2 (for Nut House) and Cold Ponies (for Sheat) in order to push westward sooner. I don't know, more though is needed. We might even want to push the very first exec westward to Nicaea -- we are going to have quite a few cities further west in Napoleon and KK's former lands.

But anyway, I think a detailed city-by-city plan for our corporate spread should be prepared and ready to go for the turn we reach Medicine. Some cities such as our northern ice cities are going to require execs to spend a turn travelling, so that will have to be factored in carefully. But I would hope that we can complete the corporation spread in 10 turns or less.

So we could be looking at ending the game in as little as maybe 15 turns, perhaps 20 at the outside. :D Assuming we can kill the AIs that fast, and generate enough money to fund everything, and nothing unexpected happens. I really think this game will not get back around to me, and Sleepless will wrap everything up for us. :D
 
Agree with cold whipping execs and spreading radially in all directions. First exec definitely to clam bake. Any exec that can spread the same turn its built should do so. Otherwise spread "furthest". That is, if no city at distance of 3 tiles on T0, take a city at distance 7 on T1, not one at distance 4. I guess you kniw what I mean. This way we spread further quicker. Spread outward first before central cities, given the choice.

Fine with the resettling of Ulm. Valencia could be resettled (now already) on shore NE of KKs former iron source. I'd resettle Parthian too, next to that crab.
 
I am not sure Clam Bake is actually the best city for the first exec. We may need to go west to Nicaea first. What we need to do is draw a graph of all our cities (current and planned) in terms of a network movement graph -- linking all cities by single moves where possible, and then finding the longest path from Primary GP Farm. I think westward may end up being the longest path, so Nicaea may actually be better than Clam Bake for the first city. Or maybe Clam Bake -> The Farm -> Lalibela works better to spread westward? Hmmmm.

Anyway, I will work on that and try to present some results sometime tomorrow.

If we want to raze Valencia then resettling now on the shore near KK's former iron would be good. Then we do not need to wait for Valencia to come out of anarchy, and we do not need to ship an exec over water (requiring an extra move).

Resettling Parthian could be useful as well if we are worried about anarchy time. Otherwise I do not see a problem, as Sushi culture will pop its borders in one turn. Really, any seafood city which might cause trouble due to sitting in post-conquest anarchy for a bunch of turns may need to be razed and replaced, if it is going to conflict with our planned time line. So having a couple extra settlers on hand and in position would probably be a very good idea.
 
Clam Bake as first spread admittedly is more based on mathematical intuition than hard calculation. But it has a certain logic to it, which is that if we found HQ on t0 and coldwhip exec, then on t1 we can already coldwhip 2 execs rather than 1. This should snowball to sooner overall spreading.

However, I'm not entirely sure whether GPFarm is the right spot for HQ. If westward expansion indeed is most problematic, maybe Aksum is a better spot. Might be more central after all.

Interesting optimization problem. :)
 
Nice going Nocho.. :goodjob:

Well had a very quick glance at the save and as I thought teching medicine - spreading corporations will be the sticking point.

Things we do need to concentrate on now. Build roads to the sushi resources in the North. Does anybody have an idea how much anarchy a change from rep to us would be. If its only 1 turn it might be better to stay in rep if it will speed up medicine. Then again mass wealth building should enable us to put the slider higher which we do need to do. Not sure on this one.. :lol:

City builds..

I'd cancel all builds. Even courthouses. Just build wealth. Corporation costs will be high but cheaper than buying courthouses. Otoh we could use the whip. Certainly our new sushi cities don't need to build anything.

Lastly do "ALL" cities need a corporation including barb cities. Which obviously can't have one so we would have to raze them before winning?

Corporation HQ. Both PGP and Askum have benefits though Askum likely favour Askum very slightly being a bit more central.

Civics.

US - Nat (extra happy) - Slavery - FM - FR would be my civics change.
 
kcd_swede said:
adrianj said:
Hello KCD!

You may have noticed some questions pop up in our thread regarding the additional corporation condition.

The extra condition is that every city must have a franchise of your monopoly corp, unless it has the Corp HQ of a competing corporation.

1) Does "every city" also include AI and barbarian cities?

2) Can we use the final turn (in between "One more turn" and save+quit) to spread the corporation?

Regards,

Adrian J


Yes, to both questions.
That settles that.
 
Ok plan to get a few cuirassiers up to the Aluminium HQ and raze all barb cities in the south. Will need to fogbust as well so no barb cities spring up again after razing. Shouldn't add any time to our finish date though.

Edit.. No we don't need gotojail do we. :lol:
 
Then we have to burn the Barb cities also.

I will start sending some Cuirs N to IP.

I'll see about "mapping" Corp spread this evening after work.
 
Then we have to burn the Barb cities also.

I will start sending some Cuirs N to IP.

I'll see about "mapping" Corp spread this evening after work.

No need as Gotojail has a corp hq. All other barb cities must be razed though.
 
The most annoying constraint is the limit of 5 corp execs alive or in build queues at any time. Can someone confirm that this is actually true?

34 cities. Best case execs built/alive per turn would be 1(HQ founded) + 1 + 2 + 4 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 1 = 34. Minimum turns = 10. However, some cities requires more than one turn to travel, so our actual minimum may be more than this.

I assume that every exec is rush-built from scratch, ie, in one turn accepting the penalty this entails. Whipping is preferable and cash-rushing is the fallback option.

T0:
Found HQ in Aksum. Rush exec. (Rush = Whip or Buy)

T1:
Addis Ababa ex Aksum.
Aksum, Addis Ababa rush.

T2:
Gondar ex Aksum.
Toledo ex Addis Ababa.
(Aksum, AA, Gondar, Toledo rush)

T3:
Lalibela ex Aksum.
Barcelona ex Toledo
Ankara ex Gondar
Weep ex AA
(Look to next turn list for where to Rush)

T4:
Madrid ex Barcelona
Bursa ex Ankara
Nicomedia ex Aksum
Niceaa ex Addis Ababa
The Farm ex Lalibela

T5:
Edirne ex Ankara
GPFarm ex Niceae
Clam Bake ex The Farm
Ulm ex Madrid (2 turns)
Icy Fish ex Toledo (2 turns)

T6:
Istanbul ex Bursa
Thessalonica ex Niceaea
Golden ex The Farm
Ulm ex Madrid (last turn)
Icy Fish ex Toledo (last turn)

T7:
Cold Ponies ex GPFarm
Spicy Deer Frag ex Ankara
Icy Passage ex Golden (2 turns)
Icy Crab ex Weep (2 turns)
HC City ex Istanbul (2 turns)

T8:
Sheat ex Cold Ponies
Icy Passage ex Golden (last turn)
Icy Crab ex Weep (last turn)
HC City ex Istanbul (last turn)
Mainz ex Ulm (2 turns)

T9:
The Nut House ex Sheat
One Tile Isle ex Aksum (2 turns)
Minoan ex Golden (2 turns)
Icy Clams ex Madrid (2 turns)
Mainz ex Ulm (last turn)

T10:
SugarSugar ex The Nut House
Silver ex Thessalonica
One Tile Isle ex Aksum (last turn)
Minoan ex Golden (last turn)
Icy Clams ex Madrid (last turn)
 
To me, it looks like Aksum is our best choice for the Corp HQ, due to it's central location and has been building buildings.
No Grocer in Aksum yet, but it shouldn't take long to build.

My thought for GPF as the founding city was based on a few reasons. One, GPF is closer to "done", and could maybe whip the Bank for enough overflow to build the first Exec completely. Now that I type it out loud, I guess this may be possible in Aksum with the Grocer also. Two, Aksum was closer for contributing units. Three, the cities near the rear are supplying cash going forward, and can afford to whip the Execs immediately.

Now, I'm not sure how many more units we will actually need. I know I want a few spies for city revolts on HC. They will save a ton of units if successful in causing revolts.

I'll check on the clam resource and put it in if need be.

We need another couple settlers also. I am going with nocho's suggestion to burn Parthian and replace, as well as the clam/gem city.

I will refine the PPP a bit. Please add comments, especially about Corp spreading.

I can't see the spreadsheet you posted without "permission".
 
Spoiler :

Exec details. We can move 5 tiles on a road and spread the same turn.

@Aj, Does your spread plan reflect this data?

I believe similar results could produced starting at GPF.

Producing Execs something like.....

T0 = GPF
T1 = GPF + Nicea
T2 = GPF + Nicea + Lalibella + CP
T3 = GPF + Lali + CP + Aksum + NH
 
PPP

Switch Civics to

US/Nationhood/Slavery/Free Market/Free Religion

Tech to Medicine as fast as possible and then turn off tech.

Raze every city!

Replace Sushi resource cities. 4 (more) Settlers required

Build WB for Clams at Lali.

Road to northern city sites.

Goals

1) Destroy as many AI cities as possible as fast as possible.

Pausing in 5 turns for evaluation.

The pause will be to discuss the corporate founding location. If I get to Medicine sooner, I will pause sooner obviously.

Plan to play sometime after 36 hours from this post at the latest. With approval, I have multiple windows of opportunity before then.

How's that for refined? ;)
 
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