SGOTM 19 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

haphazard1 · Mar 27, 2014

Ronnie1 said:
Replace Sushi resource cities. 4 (more) Settlers required

Ronnie1, can you list exactly where these 4 additional settlers will go?

Where do we plan to put the Sushi HQ? We need to make sure to move our GM into position ahead of time.

Otherwise the PPP looks pretty good to me. I will try to draw up a Primary GP Farm centered spread plan, to see how it compares to adrianj's Aksum centered plan.

Sleepless · Mar 27, 2014

Basic PPP seems good to me as well.

Can we place the merchant between Askum and PGPF so it can settle Sushi on the turn we get medicine in both cities? If not probably best to decide before Ronnie plays his turnset (or starts it).

So perhaps a stop the turn before we get medicine?

Ronnie1 · Mar 27, 2014

To me it still seems like GPF is the better spot because it has more pop for whipping the initial Execs.

Aksum will still be working all those Towns/Villages and we should avoid whipping too heavily there imo.

GPF has enough food that we can whip it repeatedly as soon as we get Medicine.

Ronnie1 · Mar 27, 2014

haphazard1 said:
Ronnie1, can you list exactly where these 4 additional settlers will go?

Where do we plan to put the Sushi HQ? We need to make sure to move our GM into position ahead of time.

Otherwise the PPP looks pretty good to me. I will try to draw up a Primary GP Farm centered spread plan, to see how it compares to adrianj's Aksum centered plan.

3 northern seafoods, replace Parthian next to seafood. Same for Mainz and Island city and last city will get Ulm Clams and Gems.

The start of the spread plan might be in post 1639. I started it last night, and it is just a framework.

nocho · Mar 27, 2014

Currently we have 3 settlers. 1 is meant to settle fish/silver north of Toledo. I'd use the other 2 (in Barcelona iirc) for the Ulm replacement and the on-shore Valencia replacement (NE of pillaged iron). The latter 2 need border pops, hence I'd settle them first.

If we're not clear on hq then indeed pause a turn before medicine.

adrianj · Mar 27, 2014

Sorry, my spreadsheet sharing settings were wrong.

I've now set it so anyone with the link can view it. And the link is here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoZTcYrd0n3DdHJ6dGFWb3pKWFI3UlJ1UEZUUHNzWGc&usp=sharing

I'm just putting together a version using GPF as the HQ...

adrianj · Mar 27, 2014

nocho said:
Currently we have 3 settlers. 1 is meant to settle fish/silver north of Toledo. I'd use the other 2 (in Barcelona iirc) for the Ulm replacement and the on-shore Valencia replacement (NE of pillaged iron). The latter 2 need border pops, hence I'd settle them first.

If we're not clear on hq then indeed pause a turn before medicine.

Fish/Silver is called IF in the spreadsheet, for Icy Fish. There is also IL for Icy Clam and IC for Icy Crab. Do we already have Icy Crab settled?

Ulm replacement I understand. Good to settle our own city so that we don't need to wait for newly captured ones to come out of revolt.

Do we really need the Valencia replacement? I thought keeping that city was a really good idea for massive trade route bonus. Spreading a Corp exec there is only a 2 turn move - granted this is more than the one turn spread from Madrid that the new site would need. If border expansion is needed, build a workshop or two on the Aksum coast and build Culture for a couple of turns.

Mainz should also be resettled. This way we don't need to wait for it to come out of revolt.

So... it looks like we could have Medicine in 6 or so turns, Corp spread in 10-11 turns after that. Do we even think the Conquest will go that quickly? We might find ourselves limited by military after all.

adrianj · Mar 27, 2014

Spreading Sequence from GPFarm. Looks like it can work in 10 turns. The longest path is GPF > Mainz as expected, which needs to go via Nicaea, Lalibela, Addis Ababa, Toledo, Barcelona, Madrid, Ulm2.0 (2 turns), Mainz2.0 (2 turns). Total = 11 turns.

T0:
HQ in GPFarm.

T1:
Nicaea ex GPF

T2:
Lalibela ex Nicaea
Clam Bake ex GPF

T3:
The Farm ex Clam Bake
Addis Ababa ex Lalibela
Nicomedia ex Nicaea
Cold Ponies ex GPF

T4:
Aksum ex Lalibela
Sheat ex Cold Ponies
Golden ex The Farm
Thessalonica ex GPF
Toledo ex Addis Ababa

T5:
Gondar ex Aksum
The Nut House ex Sheat
Spicy Deer Frag ex Nicomedia
Silver ex Thessalonica
Barcelona ex Toledo

T6:
Ankara ex Gondar
Weep ex Addis Ababa
Madrid ex Barcelona
SugarSugar ex The Nut House
Minoan ex Golden (2 turns)

T7:
Bursa ex Ankara
Ulm2.0 ex Madrid (2 turns)
One Tile Isle ex Aksum (2 turns)
Minoan ex Golden (last turn)
Icy Passage ex Golden (2 turns)

T8:
Istanbul ex Bursa
Ulm2.0 ex Madrid (last turn)
One Tile Isle ex Aksum (last turn)
Icy Passage ex Golden (last turn)
Edirne ex Ankara

T9:
Mainz2.0 ex Ulm2.0 (2 turns)
HCC ex Istanbul (2 turns)
Icy Crab ex Weep (2 turns)
Icy Fish ex Toledo (2 turns)
Icy Clam ex Madrid (2 turns)

T10:
Mainz2.0 ex Ulm2.0 (last turn)
HCC ex Istanbul (last turn)
Icy Crab ex Weep (last turn)
Icy Fish ex Toledo (last turn)
Icy Clam ex Madrid (last turn)

haphazard1 · Mar 27, 2014

adrianj said:
Do we really need the Valencia replacement? I thought keeping that city was a really good idea for massive trade route bonus. Spreading a Corp exec there is only a 2 turn move - granted this is more than the one turn spread from Madrid that the new site would need. If border expansion is needed, build a workshop or two on the Aksum coast and build Culture for a couple of turns.

Maybe we should burn and replace Valencia to avoid anarchy turns? I do like the idea of putting a city on the island, since we will get a boosted trade route in every city from it. And we can always use more commerce/cash.

As for the border pop, just get Sushi spread to it. That should be more than enough to pop the border in one turn.

adrianj said:
So... it looks like we could have Medicine in 6 or so turns, Corp spread in 10-11 turns after that. Do we even think the Conquest will go that quickly? We might find ourselves limited by military after all.

This assumes we can keep the money train rolling to pay for everything. But if we can manage that, then we could in fact finish in less than 20 turns.

More distant cities can start converting to wealth (if they are not busy rushing execs, of course!) once new units can no longer reach the front in time to be useful. But until then we should keep building units, and maybe even whip some in closer cities. It does look like we need to push the military side as hard as we can, so more units to keep our momentum going will be useful.

Nice work on the spread plans, adrianj! :goodjob:

It looks like they both require 10 turns after founding Sushi. So I think I agree with Ronnie1 that given the choice we should put the HQ in Primary GP Farm. It has plenty of pop to whip, and once it finishes its share of execs it can regrow quickly. Aksum can work its commerce tiles for a bit longer and then whip its share of execs as per the plan.

Now it is up to our military maestros to burn AI cities as rapidly as possible. :evil:

I think they will prove up to the challenge. :lol:

adrianj · Mar 27, 2014

Valencia:
We should either whip or cash-rush those galleys ASAP. I'm not opposed to razing and resettling the city, if the settler can be built and get there fast enough.

Workers:

Probably also worth mentioning - we will want a plan to convert Sid's Sushi :food:

into

. Caste System merchants are not an option, so we will probably do it via building Wealth. I'm guessing we don't have many idle workers, but if we do they should be converting farms and other unimproved terrain into workshops.

Also, double check that our roading network is up to the task of transporting the executives as per the plan.

Finally, triple check that we have in fact netted with workboats all of the Sid's seafood resources and farmed the Rices. (The clams near Lalibela for example)

FYI: Spreading from GPF is possible in 10 turns, but I don't think there is any margin for error. This includes errors in my own calculations of course... perhaps someone could double check that each of the links (eg, Silver ex Thessalonica, etc) is in fact possible in the number of turns stated (1 or 2)?

Sleepless · Mar 27, 2014

Nice plans there AJ.. :goodjob:

One of the main problems might be building roads to the ice cities. Not sure were going to have spare workers for workshops etc.

nocho · Mar 27, 2014

We should test that, but I'm not sure trade routes are actually blocked by ice, maybe not, which would be good.

adrianj · Mar 27, 2014

nocho said:
We should test that, but I'm not sure trade routes are actually blocked by ice, maybe not, which would be good.

You mean that along the north pole the new Icy cities will be connected to the trade network via Icy Passage through trade route over ice?

That would be an advantage.

I was thinking it would be important to connect them via road so that the corp execs can reach them ASAP. The current spreading plans rely on roads being in place.

Ronnie1 · Mar 27, 2014

Maybe we should burn and replace Valencia to avoid anarchy turns?

That was my plan.

Not sure were going to have spare workers for workshops etc.

I was thinking of sneaking in a worker build or 2 maybe. I thought we seemed a bit under staffed maybe because of this,

I was thinking it would be important to connect them via road so that the corp execs can reach them ASAP. The current spreading plans rely on roads being in place.

haphazard1 · Mar 28, 2014

adrianj said:
Probably also worth mentioning - we will want a plan to convert Sid's Sushi into . Caste System merchants are not an option, so we will probably do it via building Wealth. I'm guessing we don't have many idle workers, but if we do they should be converting farms and other unimproved terrain into workshops.

I am not sure I agree with converting farms at this time. We do have Biology tech, so farms are actually pretty strong tiles for us. Maybe we would be better off converting food into markets and grocers via whipping (where they do not already exist), and then if we have surplus food running up to 4 merchants. Since we are likely to be running 100% cash, the buildings will have some pay off as well as providing the merchant slots.

Many cities are going to be whipping execs without hammers invested, some of them doing so multiple times. Even with Sushi food, I think most cities are not going to run out of good tiles to work plus some merchant specialists. I guess if a few cities do, we can always convert some tiles. But I think this will be useful for only a few cities at most. I would prefer to see most of our workers focusing on road building for faster exec movement.

nocho · Mar 28, 2014

We certainly don't need more workers! Already found it difficult to find really useful things to do. Also agree with not workshopping farms. Whip cuirs and execs instead!

@aj, yeah, for execs to reach outlying fishing villages roads help, but I thought it was mentioned for TR connection. In that I think it might not be needed. We'll see next turn when we settle silverfish whether it's insta-connected or not (please make a note, Ron!).

Ronnie1 · Mar 28, 2014

I have played a few turns of constant fighting and fighting massive amounts of :mad:

citizens in our cities.

Spoiler :

I did not found Silver Fish yet, the settler is waiting. It would be a drain on our economy that we didn't need just yet.

The one city I did found was the Clam/Gem city, the same turn we razed whatever was there. I'm glad I did, because last turn I razed KK's northern city and this turn Capac has 2 settlers marching.

Both Capac and Alex have Cuirassiers now.

KK is down to the Island city, we have 2 galleys on the water from Toledo. We need 4 imo to be safe. I tested a bit, we won't be getting good odds from the boats, and the Flanking promo doesn't work either. 2 more galleys can get loaded in 2 turns I think, so we are about 3 turns from eliminating KK.

With the switch to US, we lost our Rep

, Capac went Emancipation at the same time, and we were hit with between 9 and 14 :mad:

in our biggest cities. I built and whipped some Theaters and Jails to combat the unhappiness. The amount was too great to overcome just whipping units. We were starving at a rapid rate. OH, and that was with running a 20% Culture slider the whole time.

We are still 3 turns to Medicine, and I hope Sushi spread is our sticking point. However, I think will probably be Conquest.

One question is how soon do we declare on Capac? Alex isn't dead, but he can't have much left either really. His units are upgraded, but we still out number him by a lot. I razed

Autolog

Spoiler :

Upload log is a text file attached.
It's late, I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

Ronnie1 · Mar 28, 2014

Autolog part 2

Spoiler :

Sleepless · Mar 28, 2014

Well managed a very quick look at the save as I was leaving for work.

Were still a bit away from medicine. Hopefully we will get it in 3 turns though. Tbh not really concerned about HC having cuirassiers. Until were at war he won't be building many plus they don't get defensive bonuses. Not really much difference between them and LBs/pikes in a city.

I do think we need to concentrate our forces on Alex and start building a smaller stack to attack from the North..

Galleys. Do we need 4? If we use the cuirassiers on the galleys now and have re-inforcements ready to board if we lose any so they can attack next turn. So attack from the NE East area. That would be my preference.

I guess your using the workers as fog busters in the South. We could also leave the barb city for the moment as it also acts as a fogbuster and will be easy to take a bit later.

Carry on the good work Ronnie1..

Edit.. Building roads to the iceballs. I was thinking just to get the executives there quicker.

haphazard1 · Mar 28, 2014

Very solid work, Ronnie1! :goodjob:

Yes, these war turns are going to be very time-intensive. So many things to keep an eye on, units to move, etc. But it sounds like you are really hitting the AIs hard -- KK down to one city.

If we can eliminate the island city ASAP, that should remove a lot of war weariness from fighting KK. There will still be some from fighting Alex (especially Istanbul changing hands), but it should be a fair bit less than we are struggling with now. Of course, it will go up again as we push hard on Alex. And remember that HC has the Statue of Zeus.

I agree with Sleepless on the galleys -- if we can attack sooner it would be better, even if it costs us several units. Finishing KK and eliminating the Spanish war weariness would be worth several units, easily.

HC sending out settlers....

Well, not much to be done about it but be prepared to raze them fast once we declare on him. The new cities should make him spread out his military a bit, which will be helpful. Do we want to try to leave him alone until we can finish Alex? It would simplify things for us militarily, even if we have to clean up a bunch of new cities. And if he is spamming settlers while we fight Alex, he is not spamming military.

SGOTM 19 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

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