zbgayumn
Emperor
No, the list is populated with AI cities (plus GC).
No shrines show up in the Wonder list. I suspect that the shrines haven't been built. Otherwise, the comment about 4 temples for a settled GPro doesn't make a lot of sense.
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SGOTM 20 - Civ Geeks United
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
No, the list is populated with AI cities (plus GC).
No shrines show up in the Wonder list. I suspect that the shrines haven't been built. Otherwise, the comment about 4 temples for a settled GPro doesn't make a lot of sense.
zbgayumn
Emperor
It takes a long time to get construction in after currency. There's not much to build in Endor, Death Star, and some others if we don't build swords.
We could de-emphasize the attack on the island by keeping GC on buildings (Market once Currency is in), but I think we still need to go forward with swords.
Since Suly is stacking axes, maybe a couple chariots would be good as well.
Or 0% research til T92
T91
Churchill researched math, but won't trade.
Louis researched HBR, but won't trade.
Deleted WB so trireme did not get experience.
Deer to Louis for corn
T92
Great Prophet
No sign of a French stack, but now Louis border that snug up to ours at Alderaan.
Here is your Session Turn Log from 625 BC to 575 BC:
Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Churchill researched math, but won't trade.
Louis researched HBR, but won't trade.
Deleted WB so trireme did not get experience.
Deer to Louis for corn
T92
Great Prophet
No sign of a French stack, but now Louis border that snug up to ours at Alderaan.
Here is your Session Turn Log from 625 BC to 575 BC:
Spoiler :
Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Spoiler :
zbgayumn
Emperor
Well, no controversy about bulbing Math.
It looks like we should start HBR and wait for Churchill to be willing to trade Math.
Shulec, what do you think about swords vs. elephants for barb cities?
It looks like we should start HBR and wait for Churchill to be willing to trade Math.
Shulec, what do you think about swords vs. elephants for barb cities?
Here is the updated test game. I didn't double check to see if it was exactly right, but it should be really close.
I want to use elephants and cats. We will simply lose too many units trying with swords.
I think attacking anybody with swords is a bad idea at this point. I am biased and never use sword to war with. They are great for barb cities, but suck otherwise.
Here is a CR1 10 swordsman test.
zbgayumn
Emperor
Ok, I guess I'll change the plan for the next turnset. I'll go through a test game and then put together a PPP.
zbgayumn
Emperor
PPP T92-T105
Turnset Goals
Improve economy through techs, tile selection, and trade
Found GP Farms on sites (relatively) close to capital
Build Triremes to take control of inland sea
Prepare galleys for elephant/cat assault
Build stables in production cities
Cities
GC - Forge to T96, Stable to T101, HA to T105, Market, two Sci Specialists at all times
Midgar Trireme to T93, WB to T95, Trireme to T99, Trireme to T101 then switch to Lighthouse and whip, WB then Galley
Work fish net T95, run Engineer
Tatooine Colossus to T95, WB to T97, Lighthouse to T100, Library
Death Star Settler to T94, Axe to T97, Archer to T99, Settler to T103, Stable
Endor Barracks to T94, Chariot to T96, Axe to T100, Chariot to T101, Library to T105, Wealth or Research
Dagobah - lighthouse to T93, Forge, whip on T97, Barracks to T100, Axe to T103, Settler for 1 turn then whip
Jabba's Palace Granary to T94, WB to T100, Lighthouse
Work mine on T98, work on Iron on T100, work cottage T101, work whale T104
Alderaan Granary to T101, Library
Gondor Settled T95, Library
Caemlyn Settled T105
Courthouses may take priority if we can trade CoL
City micro:
Straightforward, start to emphasize cottages in Jabba's Palace, Tatooine, and Midgar as we run out of other improved tiles. Use whip as cities near happy cap (Size9- 10, 11 for GC)
Commerce Cities GC, Tatooine, JP, Alderaan
GP Farms Gondor, Caemlyn, GC (sort of)
Production Cities Death Star, Endor, Dagobah, Midgar (naval)
Tech
100% HBR to T95, so we can build Stables for elephants.
Go to 0% and attempt to trade for Math and anything else useful.
If math still not available by T98, research Currency (finish T102)
0% to T104, if still no Math, research it for completion on T105
Workers
Cid Stay around GC; Cottage T92, Road T96, Farm T98, Cottage T103
Rand Stay around Dagobah; Cottage T92, move to PFH T96, chop T97, mine T100, cottage T104
The Master Cottage T92, Move to jungle T96, chop T97, cottage T101, road T105
Dorrin Move 1NW, Cottage T92, move to Iron T96, mine T97, road T100, road rice T101, move to GFH T103, chop T104
C3PO (Worker 2) Move 1W, road T92, move to Horse, road T94, move 1N, road T96, Cottage 1NE T98, road T102, cottage 1W T104
Obi Wan (Worker) move to other Fur, Camp T94, road T98, finish Iron mine T100, road T101, cottage 1NE T102
The Doctor move to Deer T95, road T96, move 1SW T98, road toward Augustus
R2D2 Move 2NE, cottage T93, road rice T97, move to 1S of Gondor T99, chop T100, cottage T103
Settlers
#1 Found Gondor on northern coast between Tatooine and JP
#2 Found Caemlyn E of GC (3E or 4E?) Both are good GP Farms, 3E allows another city to be squeezed in NE of Caemlyn
Chariots & Scout
Injured chariot heal, try to get increased visibility. Promote to flanking. (4/2 XP currently).
Far east chariot keep exploring. Keep mapping the continent.
Resource Trade
No change until Currency in, then look for cash trades with AC, Churchill, Louis
Diplo
Future partners: Augustus, Churchill, Louis (Napoleon is worst enemy of Louis and Victoria.)
Accept tech demands from Louis, Augustus.
Cancel OB with Julius, or wait for AC demand?
If Louis DOWs Napoleon, accept demand to join war, then consider bribing Churchill in too.
Decline Julius request to stop trading with Augustus. (again)
Increase power rating with a few Axes/Chariots to deter Suleiman from DoW
I tested all the way to T110 in order to get Construction. That seems like a long wait, but I also couldn't trade for math in the test game.
zbgayumn
Emperor
Just for clarity, here's some images from the spreadsheet on worker and city micro
Spoiler :
math will be available as soon as another AI will get it. I hope augustus and maybe victoria will have it soon.
I've been thinking on our east border. No access to save so can't test anything.
I'd really like to have small defence in our east cities -> min 1 archer, better 2 in our 3 east cities + 1 turn on a wall in case of emergency whip.
why? because AI see our absence of defence and it is a factor to chose a target. with no defence in our NE city, we are the best target ever.
another point is that currency could enable us to beg money for 10 turn truce. the time gained could alloy us for enought defence.
If louis or sully ask for something, just give, no mater what they ask. If we can bribe louis to declare nappy, pay the price. We need some time to get a decent army in both fronts and maybe turn louis into an ally.
will study the PPP with save open tonight.
EDIT minimum defence would be 1 archer in moscow(2) and poly and 1 archer and 1 axe in midgard.
BTW we will lose our road between midgard and poly, we need a new one in the west.
I've been thinking on our east border. No access to save so can't test anything.
I'd really like to have small defence in our east cities -> min 1 archer, better 2 in our 3 east cities + 1 turn on a wall in case of emergency whip.
why? because AI see our absence of defence and it is a factor to chose a target. with no defence in our NE city, we are the best target ever.
another point is that currency could enable us to beg money for 10 turn truce. the time gained could alloy us for enought defence.
If louis or sully ask for something, just give, no mater what they ask. If we can bribe louis to declare nappy, pay the price. We need some time to get a decent army in both fronts and maybe turn louis into an ally.
will study the PPP with save open tonight.
EDIT minimum defence would be 1 archer in moscow(2) and poly and 1 archer and 1 axe in midgard.
BTW we will lose our road between midgard and poly, we need a new one in the west.
Great PPP zbgaynum! I will make general comments in this post, then specific comments in the next post.
FYI:
In the real game, I started Pyramids in JP as a placeholder for fail gold since we have stone.
Louis just settled the city SE of Alderaan. It had an archer and another unit (archer, axe or spear, can't remember.) He had no stack anywhere in sight. He has been in fist mode about 13 turns.
Comments:
Astre is correct about needing garrison troops. The AI have an RNG "dagger" script that leads to a fist and war declaration in 1-2 turns. Ouch. That is why that archers is sitting in no man's land in case there is a dagger DoW. Astre also makes a great point about us losing that road. The worker on the mined/chopped tile should road in place, then north. I will check and see when Istanbul got a monument. Edit: He buiilt it between T89 and T90. He will pop borders between T99 and T100) If we can, we should chop the forests that will soon become Suleiman's forests.
Victory condition:
Religious victory seems to be the easiest. (Isn't this a religious theme?)
Domination is arduous.
Culture - not.
Diplo - why bother when you can go religious
Holy City Goal:
I worry that there is a similar secular island like the Confucian island up north, but in the south or somewhere far away. Remember, this a large map, and it seems very standardish so far. Pre-game discussion stated that there are few land tiles. This means, many ocean tiles, and likely a far away, island religion/barb state.
Confucian - Island up north
Hindu - Island east
Christian - Trio east of Louis
Buddhist - West of Dagobah?
Islamic -
Judiasm -
Taosim -
Research:
Astonomy... or not? To bulb it we need to avoid having paper and philosophy available. This may require we avoid theology and CS. I will test later.
Cottages or farms outside Geek Central? If we are going to leverage Colossus, I suggest we don't cottage. Farms make it easier to work ocean tiles. Cottage suck for about 80 turn and get a boost from PP. I doubt we want the Printing Press.
GProphet:
Golden Age? This could be our best play. To maximize its benefit, we need to lay off the whip. I hate to save this GP for a holy city that won't pay off for 50 turns.
Bulbing theology is an option. It requires that we get Poly and Monotheism. If this screws up the Astro GS bulb, it may not be a good option.
Whipping:
I really don't like whipping much on this map. Whipping is best for low population cities of Pop4 to Pop6. It is best done if there are not good tiles to work at populations bigger than Pop6. The reason is that it takes fewer turn to regrow 2 population at 4 than at 8. This is because you are feeding more population and there is a higher food cap leading to growth. I would rather not whip away the ocean tiles for our coastal cities that will have three coins. The only city we currently have that is good for whipping is Dagobah. Eventually, it should grow into its ocean tiles. We have so many hammer tiles in our inland cities that we would be whipping away hammers and very slow to grow back into them. Most of our research is coming from Geek Central, so I am extremely opposed to whipping at high populations.
FYI:
In the real game, I started Pyramids in JP as a placeholder for fail gold since we have stone.
Louis just settled the city SE of Alderaan. It had an archer and another unit (archer, axe or spear, can't remember.) He had no stack anywhere in sight. He has been in fist mode about 13 turns.
Comments:
Astre is correct about needing garrison troops. The AI have an RNG "dagger" script that leads to a fist and war declaration in 1-2 turns. Ouch. That is why that archers is sitting in no man's land in case there is a dagger DoW. Astre also makes a great point about us losing that road. The worker on the mined/chopped tile should road in place, then north. I will check and see when Istanbul got a monument. Edit: He buiilt it between T89 and T90. He will pop borders between T99 and T100) If we can, we should chop the forests that will soon become Suleiman's forests.
Victory condition:
Religious victory seems to be the easiest. (Isn't this a religious theme?)
Domination is arduous.
Culture - not.
Diplo - why bother when you can go religious
Holy City Goal:
I worry that there is a similar secular island like the Confucian island up north, but in the south or somewhere far away. Remember, this a large map, and it seems very standardish so far. Pre-game discussion stated that there are few land tiles. This means, many ocean tiles, and likely a far away, island religion/barb state.
Confucian - Island up north
Hindu - Island east
Christian - Trio east of Louis
Buddhist - West of Dagobah?
Islamic -
Judiasm -
Taosim -
Research:
Astonomy... or not? To bulb it we need to avoid having paper and philosophy available. This may require we avoid theology and CS. I will test later.
Cottages or farms outside Geek Central? If we are going to leverage Colossus, I suggest we don't cottage. Farms make it easier to work ocean tiles. Cottage suck for about 80 turn and get a boost from PP. I doubt we want the Printing Press.
GProphet:
Golden Age? This could be our best play. To maximize its benefit, we need to lay off the whip. I hate to save this GP for a holy city that won't pay off for 50 turns.
Bulbing theology is an option. It requires that we get Poly and Monotheism. If this screws up the Astro GS bulb, it may not be a good option.
Whipping:
I really don't like whipping much on this map. Whipping is best for low population cities of Pop4 to Pop6. It is best done if there are not good tiles to work at populations bigger than Pop6. The reason is that it takes fewer turn to regrow 2 population at 4 than at 8. This is because you are feeding more population and there is a higher food cap leading to growth. I would rather not whip away the ocean tiles for our coastal cities that will have three coins. The only city we currently have that is good for whipping is Dagobah. Eventually, it should grow into its ocean tiles. We have so many hammer tiles in our inland cities that we would be whipping away hammers and very slow to grow back into them. Most of our research is coming from Geek Central, so I am extremely opposed to whipping at high populations.
zbgayumn
Emperor
Sounds good to me. I would probably never be this lightly defended in one of my own games, but I've been going along assuming that this is part of winning on Immortal. I can get a few more units by scrapping the library in Endor and building a few in GC before the Stable. Dagobah could do more units before the settler, too.
Given the other requirements, it seems like we'll be 75% of the way to Domination anyway. There's still some chance that Religious will be easier, but I'm unsure.
The map is described as 'Pangaea', so I'm still hoping everything is accessible by galley. Avoiding CS kind of sucks; we'll have to decide fairly soon about that.
I'm guessing by "outside Geek Central" you mean out in the other cities. That makes sense to me. I'll change some of the cottages to farms in the worker plan.
I'm thinking Golden Age might be the best option. Settling is another option, but before market/grocer/bank it's not that great. The 4 temple bonus helps a little, but would it make a difference in the long run?
I generally agree. I think the only whip I had planned outside of Dagobah was for a Lighthouse in Midgar. That one could be avoided if we can get away with 2 triremes instead of 3. In the test, I think that was the case and I ended up with a trireme that I didn't need.
If we do hit happy caps, though, what are the alternatives? We might be able to trade for more happy resources, but we can't control that. We could build Hammams for +2
, but those are kind of expensive buildings. I can only think of 1 Plantation resource we have (Incense), so Calendar doesn't help much.
Note that in the test game that "the Master" and "the Doctor" are switched relative to the real game.
Wow! That is quite a turnset!
Wow! That is quite a turnset!
Noble Zarkon
Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)
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Indeed - a lot to digest but will do my best to chip in later tonight!
look at the save.
my propositions:
build an archer in every empty city. start an axe in midgard. whip aledran one, move legolas to dagobah (poly)
for the rest, start currency right now, we can't be sure someone will tech math soon and with currency only we will win time and money. HBR may also be tradable in the near future. I would try to focus on a not tradable tech.
For GP, I would be tempted to keep it for our first holy city There is no shrine on them (can't spot any) and if we plan to go for religious victory one shrine will help.
my propositions:
build an archer in every empty city. start an axe in midgard. whip aledran one, move legolas to dagobah (poly)
for the rest, start currency right now, we can't be sure someone will tech math soon and with currency only we will win time and money. HBR may also be tradable in the near future. I would try to focus on a not tradable tech.
For GP, I would be tempted to keep it for our first holy city There is no shrine on them (can't spot any) and if we plan to go for religious victory one shrine will help.
zbgayumn
Emperor
Yeah, I thought I was being ambitious with getting 2.5 Settlers, and then you come along and go for 4.
I'll take your recommendations on the workers, with the possible exception of roading the other Furs. There will almost definitely be trade value in those.
If I do use the GP for a golden age it's going to accelerate the build schedule. Should I use him right away or wait for a little growth?
BTW, why pillage AC's roads if we want to build a road connection to him?
