Peter/Cathie/Louis and Nap are all in our sights to get the required amount of cities for all the temples. So I don't mind Peter before Louis. One of the barb cities in the NE has Christianity which will help.
Mids would be good for Police State in the future if needed..
Peter/Cathie/Louis and Nap are all in our sights to get the required amount of cities for all the temples. So I don't mind Peter before Louis. One of the barb cities in the NE has Christianity which will help.
We need all the barb holy cities, eventually. As for our neighbors...well, all of them are possible targets.
We do not yet know the hidden requirements, but assuming it does not directly impact our victory conditions what do we have?
Conquest - not permitted by scenario rule
Time - much too slow
Space - much too slow
Diplomatic (UN) - much too slow
Culture - much too slow
Diplomatic (AP) - possible
Domination - most likely
So we are going to be conquering most of our neighbors, it is just a question of when.
I was thinking more about Republic. We have a bunch of cities with good food that can easily run a couple of library scientists. With Republic to boost specialist beakers we could keep halfway decent research going even without much research slider usage. Given our heavy military focus that will probably be our best source of beakers, and getting a few GS would also help a lot.
Played 6 more turns and am ready to hand over for the war against Peter. I did manage to get us into another war along the way....
Highlights:
Turn 105
- Napoleon demands we cancel deals with Louis. Refused, as Louis is a much more powerful civ and a better trade partner. For now, anyway, since we are planning to attack him soon.
- Busy Napoleon finishes the Colossus. Nap has been building a bunch of wonders...I think he is next after Louis, who is after Peter.
- Catherine is now researching Aesthetics. Might be some more wonders there down the road...maybe after Napoleon, who is after Louis, who is after Peter?
- Peter now has a settler near the iron north of MA. We shall see who grabs the area first.
Turn 106
- And Louis wins the settler race. His new city is probably going to have to burn, since it will pressure MA's territory and is otherwise pretty bad.
- There is still a barb trireme in the local sea. It is to the east, near Louis' city of Tours. But it may cause us trouble in the future. Hopefully it will stay to the east.
Turn 107
- Mentioning naval barbs a barb galley appears next to Ghuzz...just after we finished netting the fish there, of course. It appears to be chasing Victoria's wb, though, so maybe it will not bother our nets?
- I sell our spare sheep to Catherine for 3 gpt.
Turn 108
- My timing continues to be poor...we lose the sheep far north of SL to Catherine's culture. So that deal will probably fall apart soon. Still, we have other spare resources we can sell her if she still has cash afterwards.
- We catch a foreign spy in SL, don't know whose. Poisoned water is almost inevitable in our future. I hate AI espionage.
- The barb galley does chase Victoria's wb east away from Ghuzz. But now it is threatening the nets at Ankara.
Turn 109
- Julius asks us to declare war on Augustus. I am reluctant despite our policy of favoring Julius out of the Roman pair. But then I notice the scoreboard -- Augustus is down to only 1 city! OK, in that case I agree -- we declare on Augustus. No need to upset Julius over what should be a sham conflict.
Augustus does have some random roaming units around. A new HA from CS immediately kills a Roman scout for free XP. More troubling is a Roman archer between CS and Ghuzz -- we will need to deal with it before it can threaten Ghuzz and the workers there. Augustus also has a praetorian, an axe, and a spear west of Peter's capital -- right next to our exploring warrior. Run away!
- I sell a spare fish to Louis for 2 gpt. Seems his nets have all been pillaged by that barb trireme....
Turn 110
- The barb galley pillages one of Ankara's nets. I have our galley nearby and heading there to defend the coast, and start Ankara building another galley just in case. We will want some naval transport to reach the barb city SW of CS anyway, so it is not a bad thing to build.
- Trade crab to Louis for sugar, which has just become available. Good, it will replace the furs we are getting from Peter when we DOW later this turn.
- Louis' new city has stolen tiles from MA, including our horses. I put a library in the queue in MA, which can be whipped next turn to help us resist cultural pressure.
- Augustus' archer moves towards Ghuzz and threatens the workers, who shuffle out of the way. I move another HA from CS next to the archer -- we should be able to kill it next turn if it moves off defensive terrain.
- Augustus' praet/axe/spear group chase our warrior west of Peter's capital. Run away! Maybe we should rename our warrior "Brave Sir Robin"
We are ready to DOW Peter this turn, with three groups ready to attack:
- Eastern group of 1 HA, 1 chariot positioned to hit Smolensk this turn. The city has 1 axe defending, so the chariot can probably take it even though it is on a hill. The city is size 1 and should auto-raze, but it is horribly positioned anyway -- on gold, no food in first ring. We can put a better city there later, or let Louis put one and take it from him later.
- Western group of 3 HA, 1 chariot north of SL, positioned to move N-NE to be next to Rostov next turn.
- Center group of 9 HA, 1 chariot, 1 sword (can't keep up obviously but may be useful), medic scout, and GG chariot north of MA, positioned to move NW-NW to be next to Peter's capital (and not across a river) next turn.
Peter only has 4 cities (at least last turn he did, he does have a settler wandering around) so we should be able to wipe him out pretty quickly. Not sure the small Western group has enough strength to take Rostov, but they could not reach the Center group in time so this seemed the best positioning for them. Other units are being built or are nearby (an axe between SL and MA, for example). Up to the next player to decide if we attack now, delay a couple more turns, reposition, etc. But this seemed like the best set up I could put together in a reasonable time frame.
In the rest of our empire, several cities are building archers to act as garrison happiness. (Remember that we will lose the furs deal when we DOW Peter!) These cities could also go for the whip on units or for hammams. Old Suleiman cities are mostly done with infra and starting barracks for future unit production. Ghuzz is the only city that does not have culture yet, as it is just finishing its granary. I would suggest monument next there.
Our economy is doing OK but not great, about +25 gpt at 0% research with over 200 gold in the treasury. We still need several more turns of gold accumulation before we have enough cash to complete Construction, but maybe Peter's cities will help there?
Good luck!
Upload log:
Spoiler:
Here is your Session Turn Log from 275 BC to 125 BC:
Turn 104, 275 BC: You have constructed a Monument in Edirne. Work has now begun on a Granary.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Suleiman adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 104, 275 BC: Napoleon has completed The Colossus!
Turn 104, 275 BC: Peter adopts Representation!
Turn 108, 175 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Ghuzz!
Turn 108, 175 BC: Marble Arch has grown to size 7.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Istanbul has grown to size 6.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Istanbul has become unhappy.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Ankara has grown to size 4.
Turn 108, 175 BC: The borders of Ankara are about to expand.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Copper Summit.
Turn 108, 175 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Marble Arch.
Turn 108, 175 BC: You have constructed a Hammam in Istanbul. Work has now begun on a Barracks.
Turn 108, 175 BC: The borders of Ankara have expanded!
Turn 108, 175 BC: Julius Caesar adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 108, 175 BC: Louis XIV adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 108, 175 BC: Victoria adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 109, 150 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Ankara!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Horse Farm has grown to size 9.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Horse Farm has become unhappy.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Copper Summit has grown to size 8.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Istanbul has become happy.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Rheims has grown to size 4.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Ghuzz has grown to size 2.
Turn 109, 150 BC: The borders of Rheims are about to expand.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Will Sign Open Borders: Peter
Turn 109, 150 BC: You have declared war on Augustus Caesar!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Augustus Caesar refuses to talk.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Mehmed's Horse Archer 26 (Copper Summit) (6.00) vs Augustus Caesar's Scout (1.60)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 109, 150 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Augustus Caesar's Scout is hit for 36 (64/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Augustus Caesar's Scout is hit for 36 (28/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Augustus Caesar's Scout is hit for 36 (0/100HP)
Turn 109, 150 BC: Mehmed's Horse Archer 26 (Copper Summit) has defeated Augustus Caesar's Scout!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Your Horse Archer 26 (Copper Summit) has destroyed a Scout!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Copper Summit.
Turn 109, 150 BC: Deal Canceled: Wheat to Julius Caesar for Gold Per Turn (2)
Turn 109, 150 BC: The borders of Rheims have expanded!
Turn 109, 150 BC: A Fishing Boats has been destroyed by a marauding Barbarian Galley!
Turn 110, 125 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Ankara!
Turn 110, 125 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Ghuzz!
Turn 110, 125 BC: Horse Farm has become happy.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Marble Arch has grown to size 8.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Ankara has grown to size 5.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Rheims has grown to size 5.
Turn 110, 125 BC: Louis XIV will trade Sugar
Turn 110, 125 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Ghuzz.
BUFFY log:
Spoiler:
Turn 104/500 (275 BC) [01-Sep-2014 07:20:24] 0% Research: 7 per turn 0% Espionage: 4 per turn 100% Gold: 23 per turn, 82 in the bank
After End Turn: Marble Arch grows to size 5 Marble Arch finishes: Work Boat Istanbul grows to size 5 Edirne finishes: Monument Ghuzz finishes: Work Boat
Other Player Actions: Attitude Change: Suleiman (Ottomans) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Peter (Russia) towards Mehmed (Ottomans), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed' Civics Change: Suleiman(Ottomans) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule' Civics Change: Peter(Russia) from 'Despotism' to 'Representation'
Turn 105/500 (250 BC) [01-Sep-2014 07:20:51] Diplomacy (Embargo Request): Napoleon (France) asks Mehmed (Ottomans) to stop trading with Louis XIV (France); Mehmed REFUSES. Marble Arch begins: Lighthouse (4 turns) Ghuzz begins: Granary (15 turns) A Fishing Boats was built near Circei A Fishing Boats was built near Marble Arch 0% Research: 7 per turn 0% Espionage: 4 per turn 100% Gold: 26 per turn, 105 in the bank
After End Turn: The whip was applied in Ankara Silver Lining finishes: Horse Archer Horse Farm grows to size 8 Copper Summit finishes: Horse Archer Marble Arch grows to size 6 Ankara grows to size 3 Ankara finishes: Library Rheims grows to size 5
Turn 106/500 (225 BC) [01-Sep-2014 07:34:12] Silver Lining begins: Horse Archer (5 turns) Copper Summit begins: Horse Archer (3 turns) Ankara begins: Work Boat (30 turns) Ankara begins: Lighthouse (30 turns) A Cottage was built near Rheims A Cottage was built near Ankara Istanbul begins: Hammam (17 turns) 0% Research: 7 per turn 0% Espionage: 4 per turn 100% Gold: 30 per turn, 131 in the bank
After End Turn: A Hamlet was built near Silver Lining A Hamlet was built near Horse Farm Edirne grows to size 3 Rheims grows to size 6
Turn 107/500 (200 BC) [01-Sep-2014 07:50:00] A Farm was built near Ghuzz 0% Research: 7 per turn 0% Espionage: 4 per turn 100% Gold: 29 per turn, 161 in the bank
After End Turn: The whip was applied in Rheims Silver Lining finishes: Horse Archer Horse Farm finishes: Horse Archer Marble Arch grows to size 7 Marble Arch finishes: Lighthouse Istanbul grows to size 6 Ankara grows to size 4 Rheims finishes: Library
Other Player Actions: Attitude Change: Catherine (Russia) towards Mehmed (Ottomans), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Turn 108/500 (175 BC) [01-Sep-2014 08:03:16] Silver Lining begins: Horse Archer (5 turns) Horse Farm begins: Archer (3 turns) Marble Arch begins: Archer (2 turns) Marble Arch begins: Hammam (7 turns) Rheims begins: Lighthouse (10 turns) A Mine was built near Marble Arch 0% Research: 7 per turn 0% Espionage: 4 per turn 100% Gold: 23 per turn, 190 in the bank
After End Turn: The whip was applied in Istanbul Horse Farm grows to size 9 Copper Summit grows to size 8 Copper Summit finishes: Horse Archer Istanbul grows to size 4 Istanbul finishes: Hammam Edirne finishes: Granary Ankara's borders expand Rheims grows to size 4 Ghuzz grows to size 2
Other Player Actions: Attitude Change: Louis XIV (France) towards Mehmed (Ottomans), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Louis XIV (France) towards Victoria (England), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Peter (Russia) towards Mehmed (Ottomans), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious' Civics Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule' Civics Change: Louis XIV(France) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule' Civics Change: Victoria(England) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'
Turn 109/500 (150 BC) [01-Sep-2014 08:17:04] Diplomacy (War Request): Julius Caesar (Rome) asks Mehmed (Ottomans) to declare war on Augustus Caesar (Rome); Mehmed AGREES. Mehmed (Ottomans) declares war on Augustus Caesar (Rome) Copper Summit begins: Horse Archer (3 turns) Edirne begins: Barracks (8 turns) While attacking, Horse Archer 26 (Copper Summit) decimates Roman Scout (Prob Victory: 100.0%) While attacking in Ottoman territory near Vladivostok, Horse Archer 26 (Copper Summit) (6.00/6) defeats Roman Scout (Prob Victory: 100.0%) A Mine was built near Silver Lining 0% Research: 7 per turn 0% Espionage: 4 per turn 100% Gold: 24 per turn, 213 in the bank
After End Turn: Silver Lining finishes: Horse Archer Horse Farm finishes: Archer Copper Summit finishes: Horse Archer Marble Arch grows to size 8 Ankara grows to size 5 Rheims grows to size 5 Rheims's borders expand
Other Player Actions: A Fishing Boats was destroyed near Ankara A Fishing Boats near Ankara was destroyed by Barbarian Galley Attitude Change: Augustus Caesar (Rome) towards Mehmed (Ottomans), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Turn 110/500 (125 BC) [01-Sep-2014 08:35:20] Silver Lining begins: Horse Archer (5 turns) Silver Lining begins: Archer (3 turns) Horse Farm begins: Archer (3 turns) Copper Summit begins: Horse Archer (3 turns) A Mine was built near Ankara Ankara begins: Galley (10 turns) A Cottage was built near Rheims Marble Arch begins: Library (6 turns)
Looking at the progress graphs...hmmmm. Everyone else has more culture than we do, quite a bit more. Did they somehow get religion already? Or mass build/whip libraries? Or perhaps a wonder or two? Not a lot of other sources of culture this early.
I can't really believe Augustus is down to 1 city, in the previous save he showed with 5, while Julius didn't gain any in the mean time... The 1 usually shows up when you're at war with an AI when you don't know his territory yet. I think I probably would've refused, I rarely give in to these kinds of demands. Oh well, some more spice to the game.
Seems we're quite ready to strike Peter. If no surprises, he should be killed quickly. I like to go for Louis next still, that city of Amiens is insulting.
I'd go full throttle on construction immediately. Conquest cash will finish the job. What next? CoL?
I think Sleepless is up now? Will he be ready for some action? If not I can take over.
No, I think you need some old fashioned AI stomping and that's just what next turns are all about. So if you're available please just go ahead, I only offered my services in case you couldn't.
Looks like it should be a fun little romp through Peter!
nocho is right about Augustus city count. We do need to be a bit aware at this point. Once we take a city from Peter, that little stack chasing the warrior will probably head that direction.
Looks good h1!!!
Amiens is indeed poorly placed for our needs. It must go away.
Cathy is possibly going to be an issue once Peter is gone.
I would 3 pop whip the Library in MA at 28/90
HF can squeeze in Library build sometime now I would think.
I would work the cottages in SL and add the scientists back with growth.
Ghuzz needs to come off one of the food tiles this turn while the Granary completes.
War plans....after DOW, I would move the scout 2NW and look at the Capitol. I would consider leaving the sword behind or making it part of a smaller group heading NE.
Sorry about the Augustus DOW...looks like that was a mistake. I don't think we will see very many units from him, other than his explorers that we have already seen. Unfortunately that praetorian will likely be a problem.
For the sword, just do whatever with it. Definitely do not hold back the faster units.
At Ghuzz, I don't think you actually come out ahead by not working the food. You will lose more from not working it than you gain from trying to finesse the granary.
At Ghuzz, I don't think you actually come out ahead by not working the food. You will lose more from not working it than you gain from trying to finesse the granary.
Find the old GK thread. We tested it a few different ways. Basically the difference in stored food combines over 2 pop to speed it up.
The numbers all come from the thread about granary's, here.
Simply, every 1 food past 1/2 of the food bar when the granary gets completed, is "extra" food that needs to be generated for the second pop growth post granary.
A lot depends on Peters strength and how many units we will need. I tend to aim for caution so the more the better for me. At least until I have an idea..
So:
Silver Lining... Change to HA's/Units
Horse Farm ... Change to HA's/Units
Marble Arch .. Keep on Lib and whip at 28/90 then units. Whether Archers for city defence or attacking units will have more idea pretty soon.
Istanbul Barracks - HA's
Edirne Barracks - Archer - HA
Ankara Barracks/ wait and see what barb galley does. Poss wb's
Rheims - Lh - Barracks
Ghuzz Granary - Library
Copper Summit HA's - Units
Tech.
Construction - CoL at 0%. I'm going to try and beg gold from Loiue/Cathy this turn which should enable us to get Construction in 3 turns.
Diplo..
Refuse most demands unless there reasonable and any that ask us to get into another war.
War Plans..
Raze Smolensk..
Move our HA's 1NW - 1W this will give us the option of attacking his cap or "Rostov" next turn depending on the amount of units. Though will move small stack first which will give us a better idea.
Warrior will try to lead Augustus's troops towards JC if he can but hopefully far enough away for his units to not be much of a concern..
Stopping..
Any time I think I need input or after 5 turns and we have left Peter with 1 city.
Hopefully we can manage the turnset pace to finish without having to rush at the end. We were slow getting started but are now ahead of most teams in turns played (which may or may not correlate to turn of finish, of course).
On granaries...I read the thread, and I still do not see anything being gained by intentionally not accumulating food while the granary finishes. I looked at several different cases for the exact amount of food in the city's storage bar when the granary finishes, and there is variation depending on how large the city's per-turn food surplus is compared to the total size of the storage bar. But for the case of Ghuzz, where per-turn surplus (+8) is large compared to the storage bar (currently 24), we do not lose by having more than half the food bar complete when the granary finishes.
The key item from the article is the transition from turn 19 to turn 20: the per-turn food surplus is added to the granary's internal storage (up to 50% of the total currently needed to grow) before the storage bar is reset. Since Ghuzz' per-turn surplus is so large, we end up getting the full granary bonus as long as the city does not grow the turn after the granary finishes. But even if that does happen we still get 8 carryover from the granary (out of a possible 12) -- and of course we get the city growing a turn sooner than if we had intentionally not worked food.
The not-work-food case does catch up after the second pop growth after the granary completes. But it is only catching up, and the do-work-food case grew the first time a turn sooner. The not-work-food case loses that pop-turn (tile yield, specialist, whatever) and never pulls ahead, even after multiple pop growths.
These numbers might work out differently in a city with a lower per-turn food surplus, as the potential loss on the first granary carry over would be larger. But for a size 2 city with +8 food surplus per turn, intentionally not working food is a losing proposition.
- The various archer builds were not for city defense, but for garrison happiness. If you delete them, make sure you do something for happiness. Whipping, hammams, whatever. And remember that declaring on Peter immediately drops happiness by 1 as we lose the furs deal.
- Former Suleiman cities, I would avoid building HAs without stables. (And barracks, obviously!) We are planning enough warring, with HAs and elephants and maybe knights later on, that the stables should be worthwhile. Alternate idea would be to use those cities for our non-mounted troops: axes, catapults, archers. (Note that there are a couple cities with HA garrisons because we had nothing else available. Builds a few archers and free up those HAs.)
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It is to the east, near Louis' city of Tours. But it may cause us trouble in the future. Hopefully it will stay to the east.
But now it is threatening the nets at Ankara. 
OK, in that case I agree -- we declare on Augustus. No need to upset Julius over what should be a sham conflict.
We tested it a few different ways. Basically the difference in stored food combines over 2 pop to speed it up.
