SGOTM 20 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
I like scout NE. Probably the second move would be SE, but I am not sure of that until we see what is revealed. I would prefer not to move the warrior until after we have moved the scout and learned what we can, just in case.
Does anyone object to the first scout move NE? It looks like adrianj and myself are for it, with nocho and dV I think being OK with it. Haven't heard much from Ronnie1 and McArine yet (are you out there?). Sleepless? Ororo?
If we have enough consensus someone can move the scout and post a screenshot.
Does anyone object to the first scout move NE? It looks like adrianj and myself are for it, with nocho and dV I think being OK with it. Haven't heard much from Ronnie1 and McArine yet (are you out there?). Sleepless? Ororo?
If we have enough consensus someone can move the scout and post a screenshot.
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
dV's thought on the Great Wall being a priority...interesting. I need to do some experimentation to see if the religious influence numbers are per-city or per-pop. If it is per pop then we can assume a lot fewer barb cities, but if it is per-city then there will be a lot of barbs out there.
Another possible high-priority target for the longer term: Apostolic Palace. With all the religions already founded, control of the AP is going to be important. We may want it for victory, and it would be helpful to not get stuck opposing resolutions as we "acquire" the various holy cities. Plus we are going to be building lots of temples -- controlling the AP religion and getting bonus hammers could be very useful.
Another possible high-priority target for the longer term: Apostolic Palace. With all the religions already founded, control of the AP is going to be important. We may want it for victory, and it would be helpful to not get stuck opposing resolutions as we "acquire" the various holy cities. Plus we are going to be building lots of temples -- controlling the AP religion and getting bonus hammers could be very useful.
Ronnie1
Deity
There is a coast NE of the Crab, I doubt it has a resource also.
I don't have a preference on which unit moves next.
I do prefer Scout moves NE and decides from there where to next, maybe NE again.
The pre-built farm is dry until CS.
From what I see so far, I would settle 1E on T0.
I don't have a preference on which unit moves next.
I do prefer Scout moves NE and decides from there where to next, maybe NE again.
The pre-built farm is dry until CS.
From what I see so far, I would settle 1E on T0.
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
Yes, the pre-built farm by the burned city is useless until chain irrigation -- it gives only the basic 2F for a grassland right now.
I am tempted to grab the save and move the scout NE.
But not everyone has had a chance to offer their input yet. I am off to bed (past 3:30 AM here), someone from our European contingent can handle the move once the team has reached consensus. Hopefully there is something nice in the fog, and not more nasty barbs.
I am tempted to grab the save and move the scout NE.
But not everyone has had a chance to offer their input yet. I am off to bed (past 3:30 AM here), someone from our European contingent can handle the move once the team has reached consensus. Hopefully there is something nice in the fog, and not more nasty barbs.
I agree with this. Might be an idea to park the archer on the hill though and then move to fort (sure they get the cg bonuses in a fort) once the capitals boundaries expand.
Fine just moving the scout and seeing from there as well.
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
OK, it looks like we have consensus for moving the scout and warrior. (Back online because noisy neighbors woke me up. Grrrr. 
) Grabbing the save, will be back shortly with screenshots!
) Grabbing the save, will be back shortly with screenshots!
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
OK, made the agreed upon moves. Important new info revealed...and let me say that Pollux is 
EVIL!
A barb trireme (no promotions, default trireme) is lurking to prevent us from using any of the seafood. So the 1E location is out, and use of the seafood is not going to happen for quite some time.
We do have a nice grassland cow, though. So I am thinking 1N looks quite attractive now. Three food sources (all 4F plus hammers/commerce once improved) and silver, three grass hills and a tundra hill visible, on the river with some cottagable tiles, and a few fogged tiles that might contain something useful. Looks like forests at least, from fog gazing.
The save has been uploaded again for inspection, although the list of saves still only seems to show two 4000 BC saves. Not sure what is going on with that.
EVIL! Spoiler :
A barb trireme (no promotions, default trireme) is lurking to prevent us from using any of the seafood. So the 1E location is out, and use of the seafood is not going to happen for quite some time.
We do have a nice grassland cow, though. So I am thinking 1N looks quite attractive now. Three food sources (all 4F plus hammers/commerce once improved) and silver, three grass hills and a tundra hill visible, on the river with some cottagable tiles, and a few fogged tiles that might contain something useful. Looks like forests at least, from fog gazing.
The save has been uploaded again for inspection, although the list of saves still only seems to show two 4000 BC saves. Not sure what is going on with that.
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
dV thinking about barb galleys was correct, but it is even worse with a trireme. Ouch. We will need at least one trireme of our own, or better two to feel confident of being able to clear that barb trireme out. That is a big investment of hammers to be able to use the seafood, not to mention the tech requirement. So while we can expect to eventually have a strong seafood city, it is a long ways off.
Great Wall...hmmm, but it only affects the continent, right? Or would culture borders keep the trireme out of our water tiles? I don't think I have ever seen that aspect tested. I think an experiment will be needed.
We will need at least one trireme of our own, or better two to feel confident of being able to clear that barb trireme out. That is a big investment of hammers to be able to use the seafood, not to mention the tech requirement. So while we can expect to eventually have a strong seafood city, it is a long ways off.Great Wall...hmmm, but it only affects the continent, right? Or would culture borders keep the trireme out of our water tiles? I don't think I have ever seen that aspect tested. I think an experiment will be needed.
Ronnie1
Deity
GW does NOT affect water units, so no help there. Will that Trireme move however? It could sail away and leave us free to be for a while. 
1N or 1SW seem reasonable for settling options.
1N or 1SW seem reasonable for settling options.
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
I doubt the trireme will move far enough away. They mostly seem to move randomly if they do not have a specific target. I seem to recall that barb naval units have an 8-tile "vision" limit, so it would have to move pretty far to not be attracted back if we built a work boat.
Although...maybe we could use a sacrificial work boat to lead it away? It would need to move a little, at least, so the work boat could stay ahead of it. Essentially we would get some exploration, and hopefully lead the trireme on a merry chase that would take it far enough away to no longer threaten our seafood. It would be a risk, but it could be worth it to gain a strong 2-seafood city.
For capital settling options, I prefer 1N to 1S1W. More food, no mountain tiles, it leaves the deer for some future city to the south. It also does not prevent a city 3E1N, which would make an excellent GP farm with 3 seafood (and maybe occasionally the grass cow).
Although...maybe we could use a sacrificial work boat to lead it away? It would need to move a little, at least, so the work boat could stay ahead of it. Essentially we would get some exploration, and hopefully lead the trireme on a merry chase that would take it far enough away to no longer threaten our seafood. It would be a risk, but it could be worth it to gain a strong 2-seafood city.
For capital settling options, I prefer 1N to 1S1W. More food, no mountain tiles, it leaves the deer for some future city to the south. It also does not prevent a city 3E1N, which would make an excellent GP farm with 3 seafood (and maybe occasionally the grass cow).
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
I think that H2 has it right with 1N.
If the 1N 3E is third city, then 1N capital may have expanded to the fish so border expansion less critical for city 3, focus on the navy to secure the seafood.
Second city could be NE of the deer, as a hammer city. Camped deer, some farms, and grass mines. It also can share the sheep when needed. Troops, troops, troops ...
A nice compact three city start: cap, hammer, GP farm.
My Bulgarian mountains and Black Sea map guess still seems plausible ...
dV
Actually, I really like our surroundings. The extra cow made the settling spot 1N an excellent Bureaucracy capital. With triple 4
sources, silver, ton of grassland hill mines and riverside grassland to put cottages on this is a much better capital than you get in vast majority of games. There are 9 forests to help with our early game production too.
Early game plan should be worker -> grow to size 4 -> spam workers/settlers. I would strongly encourage the Oracle into Metal Casting. Due to the fact that we have Silver and forests to chop this shouldn't be too much of a problem. Despite costing so many
Metal Casting only requires BW and Pottery, which we should definitely have by the time we build the Oracle. (BW is most likely going to be the 3rd tech we research after AH and Mining and Pottery won't take too long since we have all the prerequisites and will thus get a discount)
sources, silver, ton of grassland hill mines and riverside grassland to put cottages on this is a much better capital than you get in vast majority of games. There are 9 forests to help with our early game production too.Early game plan should be worker -> grow to size 4 -> spam workers/settlers. I would strongly encourage the Oracle into Metal Casting. Due to the fact that we have Silver and forests to chop this shouldn't be too much of a problem. Despite costing so many
Metal Casting only requires BW and Pottery, which we should definitely have by the time we build the Oracle. (BW is most likely going to be the 3rd tech we research after AH and Mining and Pottery won't take too long since we have all the prerequisites and will thus get a discount)Actually, I really like our surroundings. The extra cow made the settling spot 1N an excellent Bureaucracy capital. With triple 4
Spoiler :
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
Agree with Ororo -- the memes are fun.
Since I seem to have become the turnset player by making the initial moves here is a draft PPP to discuss.
Draft PPP
Goal of turnset
Found capital, build initial worker, survive any early barb mischief
Length of turnset/stopping conditions
- Any resources in three fogged tiles in BFC
- Complete first worker
- Meet any AI
- Barb attack on capital
- Anything unexpected
Planned actions
- Move settler 1N and found capital (suggestions for a name?)
- Set research to AH
- Set build to worker
- Work sheep tile for max food-hammers.
- Unit moves?? What to do with the archer, warrior, scout?
Civics
Don't have the tech to change any!
Diplomacy
Would have to meet someone first!
Miscellaneous
- Grab demographics screenshot on T1 to see AI founding stats
- Grab demographics screenshots on later turns if anything changes from T1
- Watch barbs for movement: warriors towards/away from capital? Trireme moving?
Questions to be Decided
- What to do with the archer, warrior, scout?
With the two barb warriors visible and the possibility of others, I think we have to play cautious with the archer and warrior. We have free CG1 promotions, so these units are very valuable for the early turns. Unless we see the barb warriors moving away from our area (doubtful), I think we need to have both the archer and warrior able to reach the capital before any barb. I also think we want to avoid any fighting outside the capital, such as the archer defending its current hill.
Question: if the barb warriors moved so that only 1 could attack the archer on its hill, would we want to defend? If both could attack I think we should retreat towards the capital, but against 1 warrior we would have good odds. Worth the risk of losing our CG1 archer that we can not replace any time soon?
The scout...I think he should explore the coastline east (moving NE-E next turn) and then north. We know there are barb warriors to the southeast, so risking the scout there is probably a bad idea. Other than next turn, we could move the scout 1 tile/turn to reduce risk. He does have that handy Medic promotion....
Let me know what you think! Improvements, suggestions, throwing of (virtual) rotten vegetables, etc.
Since I seem to have become the turnset player by making the initial moves
here is a draft PPP to discuss.Draft PPP
Goal of turnset
Found capital, build initial worker, survive any early barb mischief
Length of turnset/stopping conditions
- Any resources in three fogged tiles in BFC
- Complete first worker
- Meet any AI
- Barb attack on capital
- Anything unexpected
Planned actions
- Move settler 1N and found capital (suggestions for a name?)
- Set research to AH
- Set build to worker
- Work sheep tile for max food-hammers.
- Unit moves?? What to do with the archer, warrior, scout?
Civics
Don't have the tech to change any!
Diplomacy
Would have to meet someone first!
Miscellaneous
- Grab demographics screenshot on T1 to see AI founding stats
- Grab demographics screenshots on later turns if anything changes from T1
- Watch barbs for movement: warriors towards/away from capital? Trireme moving?
Questions to be Decided
- What to do with the archer, warrior, scout?
With the two barb warriors visible and the possibility of others, I think we have to play cautious with the archer and warrior. We have free CG1 promotions, so these units are very valuable for the early turns. Unless we see the barb warriors moving away from our area (doubtful), I think we need to have both the archer and warrior able to reach the capital before any barb. I also think we want to avoid any fighting outside the capital, such as the archer defending its current hill.
Question: if the barb warriors moved so that only 1 could attack the archer on its hill, would we want to defend? If both could attack I think we should retreat towards the capital, but against 1 warrior we would have good odds. Worth the risk of losing our CG1 archer that we can not replace any time soon?
The scout...I think he should explore the coastline east (moving NE-E next turn) and then north. We know there are barb warriors to the southeast, so risking the scout there is probably a bad idea. Other than next turn, we could move the scout 1 tile/turn to reduce risk. He does have that handy Medic promotion....
Let me know what you think! Improvements, suggestions, throwing of (virtual) rotten vegetables, etc.
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