LowtherCastle
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We could upgrade CRIII prats (and 1 mace) to 21 str Grens instead of chariots to 14.4 Cuirs. 
Cheaper too.
Cheaper too.
SGOTM 22 - Anti-TSR
- Thread starter AlanH
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LowtherCastle
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For that matter, we could build CRIII maces in Rome and then upgrade them to CRIII grens for much cheaper. 
(Bearing in mind that Grens don't offer the CR promotion line...)
(Bearing in mind that Grens don't offer the CR promotion line...)LowtherCastle
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9 chariots to 14.4 Cuirs @230g = 2070g.
19 maces to 21 str Grens @ 110g = 2090g.
No-Brainer Concussion: Build maces in Rome. We can keep building them after we get Mil Sci too. Endless stream of CRIII Grens. Other cities build Cuirs (I guess).
19 maces to 21 str Grens @ 110g = 2090g.
No-Brainer Concussion: Build maces in Rome. We can keep building them after we get Mil Sci too. Endless stream of CRIII Grens. Other cities build Cuirs (I guess).
Sounds economically wise, but is it the fastest way to victory? Wouldn't 2-movers be better?
Even with lots of nearby targets around Rome for the slow Grens, it's all about speed.
I'm not saying I like the idea of spending 2000 on 9 chariots. However, at least these upgrades turn almost-useless units into attackers; our Prats are still strong/useful. We don't gain any quantity of units if we upgrade to 19 Grens.
What shaves turns off our end date? spy revolt missions? Spend the money on those?
Or use the GM for the GAge and Artist bomb instead. ZPV estimated that would generate an additional 8 Cuirs. Not quite as good as having 9 instantly working for us I suppose.
Even with lots of nearby targets around Rome for the slow Grens, it's all about speed.
I'm not saying I like the idea of spending 2000 on 9 chariots. However, at least these upgrades turn almost-useless units into attackers; our Prats are still strong/useful. We don't gain any quantity of units if we upgrade to 19 Grens.
What shaves turns off our end date? spy revolt missions? Spend the money on those?
Or use the GM for the GAge and Artist bomb instead. ZPV estimated that would generate an additional 8 Cuirs. Not quite as good as having 9 instantly working for us I suppose.
So to be clear, you're recommending new maces in Rome be (promoted first and) upgraded, but not necessarily upgrading any of our Prats. I think I misunderstood in my previous post.
LowtherCastle
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Let's keep analyzing this. We currently have 56 cities yet to capture.
Top defender in Uruk is 15.3 versus our 15.6 Cuir. We don't even need spies there. Against the Pike in Eridu, it's up against 18.30. CRIII Grens are 21 str (actually -75% for the defender, but whatever.) CRII grens are 17.4 and can build them everywhere in greater quantity because they only cost 70h to build. Building them in Rome also gives us an additional 22g OF per unit. The question is, how much gold can we generate to pay for them @ 110g a pop?
Maybe we can churn maces out so fast the Capture Gold pays for them. And so fast we can open up multiple fronts.
Sal has the fist if we care.
But Rome can build Grens or Cuirs at 1 per turn for 0g. Why pay -110 gpt (or -88 net) to basically turn CIII into CRIII. Is that really worth it?
I think I'd rather see a weaker city that can't put out 1 Gren per turn, put out 1 mace/turn and upgrade those. They'd still be CRII Grens.
I think I'd rather see a weaker city that can't put out 1 Gren per turn, put out 1 mace/turn and upgrade those. They'd still be CRII Grens.
LowtherCastle
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I've thought about both. Not sure what is best. Another issue is having the 24 units in Rome to keep Uruk. Or should we even keep Uruk? It's far from the front as soon as we wipe out Gil. On the other hand, once we have it, we can immediately use it to upgrade a buttload of grens, put them on galleys and sneak attack Hannibal. He only has 3 real cities.
Darius only has about 5 real cities. More or less all of Brennus cities are real.
BrennusLand is so stretched long that it's a slow conquest. If we go after Brennus last, we could plan to have our 16 galleys loaded with units for amphibious landings at several of his more distant coastal cities.
It'd be nice to smack down on Hanni since he'll have grens but that might not be the fastest solution.
1. Start with Brennus after Gil.
2. Meanwhile load up galleys for landing on HanniNorth.
3. Our western cities meanwhile plan an assault on Darius.
4. Eventually we're attacking all three at once, plus Sal.
I don't know.
What the GM gonna do? Can we expect to slip past Gil's SoD. and where is the SoD?
Seems best to leave Hanni for later since Brennus will likely attack us.
Also Hanni is still beating on Darius. No matter who is winning those battles, it's still dead AI units on both sides.
Sal is gearing up to attack but would he ever backstab us? being as powerful as we are? Maybe he's going to DoW Brennus? ...not cus he's any less powerful, just RNG.
Also Hanni is still beating on Darius. No matter who is winning those battles, it's still dead AI units on both sides.
Sal is gearing up to attack but would he ever backstab us? being as powerful as we are? Maybe he's going to DoW Brennus? ...not cus he's any less powerful, just RNG.
LowtherCastle
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CIII Gren = CIII Cuir with 1 mvmt pt.
Right. Maybe the right way to think is max units.
Maces cost 47 base-h. In the 12t GA--
FC: 31hpt (28hpt w/o castes). 12t = 7.9 maces = 770g. Or 5.5 Cuirs + 0g.
Bovino: 41hpt (35hpt w/o castes), add 1 or 2 hpt for 1 more wkshp. 12t = 10.5 maces = 1100g. Or 7.3 Cuirs.
Damascus: 48hpt (40hpt w/o castes). 12t = 12 maces = 1320g. Or 8.5 Cuirs.
Mecca: 39hpt. 12t = 10 maces or 7 Cuirs.
And on and on. Obviously, it's 10 maces : 7 Cuirs. Duh.
Even with unlimited cash, we don't know if the slower grens are better than the faster Cuirs. More cuirs will die and we don't have unlimited production facilities. We could build grens in denser city areas or someone could map the whole situation out or we could just go with Cuirs, assuming the faster units win out.
LowtherCastle
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Brennus has 37 units in Calleva. 
Our GM needs 2 more turns to make it to Bibrachte, even if it gets past Gil's stack. You folks sure we're ready to have Brennus DoW us? We still could revolt to OR and Christianity...temporarily at least.
Our GM needs 2 more turns to make it to Bibrachte, even if it gets past Gil's stack. You folks sure we're ready to have Brennus DoW us? We still could revolt to OR and Christianity...temporarily at least.
You said in the 12t GA, FC would be 31, but that's with no GA. Well, not quite 31, but more than that in a GA.
LowtherCastle
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I'm talking about base-hpt. Right now it's at 24b-hpt. Add 7 and it's 31b-hpt.
What's our solution for Calleva? Let it move on us?
I'm starting to wonder again about this 2100 gold mission.
We will be getting ~7000-9000 gold for the next 50 razed cities. Unfortunately, half of that gold will be in the last 10 turns of the game. I suppose then we upgrade our archers to Grens too.
Surely we can expect at least 100 gpt average. I think ZPV probably averaged that over the last 10 turns. He got 6 cities iirc. That should increase to 150 gpt and then 200 soon.
Maybe we don't need any more gold. We can upgrade the chariots (a little slower) and still do the Artist bomb of Uruk. (Uruk does provide spice btw--happy and food)
i c, I was counting on it growing in 3 turns, then adding 3 workshops. Base goes up to 38. It's 30 without a GA.
How to deal with Gil's SoD? Let it march for another 4-5? turns.
CeaseFire for a few turns, maybe 3. The Stack will head home slowly.
Heal, load boats, land on the islands, whatever it takes to erase him from the planet in 3-4 turns, the stack will evaporate somewhere in BrennusLand.
CeaseFire for a few turns, maybe 3. The Stack will head home slowly.
Heal, load boats, land on the islands, whatever it takes to erase him from the planet in 3-4 turns, the stack will evaporate somewhere in BrennusLand.
I'd hate to see that.
What are the Odds he attacks us? like 10% each turn? less? does our power advantage help prevent him from the DoW? And if he chooses us, would he really move in on the same turn? or would we see the fist for a few turns?
What are our butt-kissing options?
Rome has Christian, so we wouldn't lose the happy or XP if we switch religion
We only have 8 hindu cities anyway. We have 4 christian.
That at least gets us to Cautious.
