zbgayumn
Emperor
You don't want to camp out on Hannibal's border for the worker steal? I know the chances of getting that worker back to our territory are low, but it's worth thinking about.
SGOTM 22 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
So I moved till desired t24 when sailing and worker is ready. Explored a little further, now going back to Rome to be more or less on time.
Bad news is that Carthage get BW yet, so it means worker steal is possible. We can live a warrior in that area, but then we are forced to yellow spot unless we want to delay city#2 settling by inserting a warrior in a queu..
Changed espionage to Carthage
Now working on detailed city plan to send out settler t40.
Bad news is that Carthage get BW yet, so it means worker steal is possible. We can live a warrior in that area, but then we are forced to yellow spot unless we want to delay city#2 settling by inserting a warrior in a queu..
Changed espionage to Carthage
Now working on detailed city plan to send out settler t40.
Spoiler :
pigswill
fly (one day)
We'll need a warrior in Rome by the time it hits pop 4 to avoid unhappiness.
If we leave a warrior near Carthage we'll need to build another warrior in Rome (4 units in Rome) before we can settle Antium. Going for Antium first makes barbs more challenging because it probably trips the switch for barbs to enter borders.
I'm ok with Antium S of Yellow, will work fine as a cottage based commerce city. Third city will be for strategic resource, hopefully iron (or horses if no iron nearby).
Need final decision on tech path at this point. Masonry for Gwall is one of them, BW after Antium is another. Wheel keeps worker busy but delays Gwall.
If we leave a warrior near Carthage we'll need to build another warrior in Rome (4 units in Rome) before we can settle Antium. Going for Antium first makes barbs more challenging because it probably trips the switch for barbs to enter borders.
I'm ok with Antium S of Yellow, will work fine as a cottage based commerce city. Third city will be for strategic resource, hopefully iron (or horses if no iron nearby).
Need final decision on tech path at this point. Masonry for Gwall is one of them, BW after Antium is another. Wheel keeps worker busy but delays Gwall.
My preffered one is wheel - BW till 1 turn left. We dont need masonry at very start of GW construction, because we will store hammers in overflows. I dont know how the wheel can make Antium later
@pigswill
leaving a warrior in carthage is tempting now as Hanni got BW. We can now lets say 6 turns of a worker standing on gold tile
@pigswill
leaving a warrior in carthage is tempting now as Hanni got BW. We can now lets say 6 turns of a worker standing on gold tile
zbgayumn
Emperor
I'm guessing you meant that the worker steal isn't possible.
Too bad. It doesn't look like we're going to discover any more foreign workers any time soon.
"Bad" in meaning, we have a decission to be made. We are now 6 moves from the gold tile and this should be enough to get there and steal worker. Hanni is without the wheel, so unless he sends a unit with worker, worker steal should be possible (and using a worker to roading through the jungle fe.).
If he didnt get BW everything will be so simple
Also note Carthage is still growing, so we are not even sure if Hannibal has worker ready
(we should know for sure when we see the graphs or get closer to borders again)
If we leave a warrior north, we must settle with no escorting warrior, so we are forced to yellow/1S from yellow (unless we delay settling by 2-3 turns)
Sorry for delay, but I would possibly post a plan to create settler the latest tomorrow. I am half dead today
If he didnt get BW everything will be so simple
Also note Carthage is still growing, so we are not even sure if Hannibal has worker ready
(we should know for sure when we see the graphs or get closer to borders again)If we leave a warrior north, we must settle with no escorting warrior, so we are forced to yellow/1S from yellow (unless we delay settling by 2-3 turns)
Sorry for delay, but I would possibly post a plan to create settler the latest tomorrow. I am half dead today
So this is how it goes for t40 settler and t41 city
PPP t24-40
t24
worker --> hills
City works: GFH + fish
City starts LH
t28
worker finishes mining, forest --> mine
t29 city grows, works pigs
worker pastures
t32 pasture finished
t33 LH ready
city starts warrior
worker roads pigs
t34 city grows to GFH, starts settler
t40
settler ready, 3 warriors near Rome (1 constantly on pigtile to fogbust within 2 tiles
pigs --> GFH to finish 4th warrior in 1 turn
..... and further toward new city
t40 settler moves on pig.
t41:
4th warrior ready. settler moves to desired location.
If no barb warrior in 1 tile: a) warrior from pigs moves back to Rome (so we have 4 in Rome), b) take screenshot of Rome
c) Settler founds a city.
d) 2 warriors move toward new city
e) change research back to BW
----
Worker sentence:
moves to hill
mines
moves to pig and pastures
roads pigs
moves to hills and roads
moves to foresthill and roads
moves toward new city hills for mining
----
Worker steal:
move toward Carthage and hopefully steal a worker
-----
Teching: the wheel, BW
At t40 we are 1 turn to complete BW, cancel it
-----
EP: Carthage?
----
Stop conditions: worker steal possible
warrior ost to animal
PPP t24-40
t24
worker --> hills
City works: GFH + fish
City starts LH
t28
worker finishes mining, forest --> mine
t29 city grows, works pigs
worker pastures
t32 pasture finished
t33 LH ready
city starts warrior
worker roads pigs
t34 city grows to GFH, starts settler
t40
settler ready, 3 warriors near Rome (1 constantly on pigtile to fogbust within 2 tiles
pigs --> GFH to finish 4th warrior in 1 turn
..... and further toward new city
t40 settler moves on pig.
t41:
4th warrior ready. settler moves to desired location.
If no barb warrior in 1 tile: a) warrior from pigs moves back to Rome (so we have 4 in Rome), b) take screenshot of Rome
c) Settler founds a city.
d) 2 warriors move toward new city
e) change research back to BW
----
Worker sentence:
moves to hill
mines
moves to pig and pastures
roads pigs
moves to hills and roads
moves to foresthill and roads
moves toward new city hills for mining
----
Worker steal:
move toward Carthage and hopefully steal a worker
-----
Teching: the wheel, BW
At t40 we are 1 turn to complete BW, cancel it
-----
EP: Carthage?
----
Stop conditions: worker steal possible
warrior ost to animal
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
An extra worker early on is well worth a couple turns to build another warrior or a diplo hit. We will be warring with all of them eventually. I vote to attempt a steal on the worker and then escort him back.
We can get t39 settler, but there is still no chance of producing additional warrior in 1 more turn (in this case pastures goes before mine).
SO
EITHER
we can forget about worker stealing and move back northern warrior for 1 turn earlier settler and city
OR we try for worker steal, but are forced to t41 settling
There is also 3rd possibility I lost sth and there is a way of producing t39 settler and warrior in 1 more turn
--------
try tests for 3rd possibility
OR
Give up test and Vote for worker steal scebario/warrior back scenario
SO
EITHER
we can forget about worker stealing and move back northern warrior for 1 turn earlier settler and city
OR we try for worker steal, but are forced to t41 settling
There is also 3rd possibility I lost sth and there is a way of producing t39 settler and warrior in 1 more turn
--------
try tests for 3rd possibility
OR
Give up test and Vote for worker steal scebario/warrior back scenario
pigswill
fly (one day)
Had a few playthroughs, worker steal was pretty straight forwards. There's a significant random element in barb animals, one try I lost two warriors, two tries lost one, two tries lost none.
I'm not bothered about delaying second city a couple of turns. Its going to depend on warrior survival anyway.
I'm not bothered about delaying second city a couple of turns. Its going to depend on warrior survival anyway.
pigswill
fly (one day)
With T40 settler and T41 Antium I couldn't get Gwall before T55 (Masonry T46). Could do with further testing.
edit: stealing Hannibal's worker slows down his second city which probably delays barbs crossing borders.
edit: stealing Hannibal's worker slows down his second city which probably delays barbs crossing borders.
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I think we need to make a decision soon - how much more testing are you guys planning to do?
zbgayumn
Emperor
I agree with unclethrill, stealing a worker is well worth 2 turns on founding the 2nd city.
@pigswill
Raging barbs means they can cross borders without land coverage limit.
So if it is said to try worker steal, I will move back warrior to Carthage.
Will try one more test with city micro using food first, and will choose the better. Will play the latest tomorrow with a stop when (iff) worker is stolen. With this scenario we aim for t41 city 2.
Raging barbs means they can cross borders without land coverage limit.
So if it is said to try worker steal, I will move back warrior to Carthage.
Will try one more test with city micro using food first, and will choose the better. Will play the latest tomorrow with a stop when (iff) worker is stolen. With this scenario we aim for t41 city 2.
pigswill
fly (one day)
I'm still not totally happy because I'm interested in optimising second city and Gwall.
@enKage> There are two issues with barbs, the first is the switch from animals to barbs, the second is when barbs cross borders. I'll take your word that raging barbs cross borders immediately. When do animals become barbs? Its to do with either global city count or global pop but I can't remember which.
@enKage> There are two issues with barbs, the first is the switch from animals to barbs, the second is when barbs cross borders. I'll take your word that raging barbs cross borders immediately. When do animals become barbs? Its to do with either global city count or global pop but I can't remember which.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Another option to consider is growing Rome to pop5 before starting settler. Tried this and going wheel>masonry>BW, got Antium T43, Gwall T52.
zbgayumn
Emperor
I went through the micro once and I didn't really see anything I would change. I'm not as concerned about a few turns on GWall. I'd rather have the city settled 2 turns earlier.
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