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SGOTM 22 - Xteam

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    Some more graph gazing:

    FE settled the coast on t1, researched AH (or Sailing) first and are building a WB. I cant otherwise explain their power & culture graphs. So, that means we are now 1t behind them.

    Wow, they were brave to move the settler 2 squares coastward on t0.
     
  2. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Concur.

    As much as I would like to have early horses, what I really want is Ivory!

    Agree with this being priority one.

    Do not really like this site. Think we should wait to get Crab and Corn along with the Horses.

    Perhaps we could look at a city to bridge between our 2nd city and this one up by the Cow? We'll have to see if anything of value is north of the cow?

    Always like Gems! When we can afford to settle this, we should do so unless something more valuable draws us away.
     
  3. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    I should have kept the date I founded Rome in 1640. Did fast test and messed up a little on MM think I can found it in 1680bc maybe even 1720bc.
    Wheel->Archery->Mysticism->Pottery->BW
    Caput built GW->Settler->Archer->Archer->Stonehenge->Workboat->Archer->Archer-Settler. WB was used to explore possibility of a southern passage to Rome.
    With 2 turns to go till learning BW I switched to Writing while waiting for settler to get to spot between horses and crabs.
    Settled city (Rome) then switched back to learn BW->Writing->Iron Working.
    Rome (our only worker was improving tiles there) built Archer->Archer->Library. The archers went back to Caput to bring the total to 6 and we were ready to settle city 3.
    Rome farmed river wine, 2 other river tiles then borders expanded started building a horse ranch.

    Here is something I tried to see if the path was viable.
    Wheel->Mysticism->Polytheism->Monotheism
    Caput built GW->Settler->Warrior->Warrior->Stonehenge->
    I got Judaism in Caput then founded second city.
    Built Stonehenge in Caput, while learning those techs I skipped.
    Only pluses are we get a happy face for knowing a religion and Temple of Solomon is a world wonder. Big downside is one of the AIs will probably beat us to it and we need so many other techs.
     
  4. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    With all the jungle in our immediate vicinity, horses are bit less valuable in the near term. :(

    I like the Ivory also. Settling in that direction is my choice, so option 1.

    That leaves room for a city grabbing 3 elephants plus banana and sugar, but we need Iron Working before it is viable.
     
  5. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    If we are not going for the horses, why not get an elephant for the happiness?

    The forested hill that gets an elephant, wet wine, dry wine and a cow might be a good spot.
     
  6. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Our cities ought to be able to support one another, especially without horse based units. Placing our second city that far out may present problems supporting it. Even with a road, that is a fair few turns movement to get help there if needed.
     
  7. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    How would it expand any time soon?
     
  8. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    Expansion is the reason I want to research Mysticism and build Stonehenge. While I have built Stonehenge 3 times after settling the second city it is no guarantee we could do it in the actual game.
     
  9. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    I am not against settling a second city that uses the pigs. I just like to explore alternatives in case one might be better. Currently, it does not look like there is a better alternative.
    When I mention we need happiness I am actually talking about what we need to make it easier to build cities 4 and 5. Though getting Monarchy solves the happiness problem.

    I did do a test run building the city Neil suggested to use the Pigs.
    Research: Wheel->Pottery->Archery->Mystism->Bronze Working->Writing->Iron Working
    Caput Build Queue: GW->Settler->Stonehenge->Archer->Settler
    Worker (guarded by 2 warriors) roaded to the settling spot then roaded river hill. Worker then moved to farm 1n of pig and warriors returned to Caput.
    1880BC: Rome settled and gets Pigs to work. After Rome is settled a warrior moves from Caput to Rome and 2 other warriors leave to scout.
    Rome Build Queue Archer->Archer->Archer->Library
    Worker improves tiles for Rome
    1640BC BW->Writing Revolt to Slavery
    1200BC Writing->IW
    1100BC about ready to settle third city.

    Caput does not need cottages you never work anything other than hills, fish and pigs.
    What Caput needs (besides health and happiness) is a lighthouse and farms so we can grow to size 26 and support 13 cities. Maybe it could also use the Moai Statues.
     
  10. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    We do need to explore all the alternatives, and to a distant enough date to allow true comparison. The most optimal path is not always the most obvious or intuitive. I will put some tests up out to a further date.

    Stonehenge after the first settler would also be great, but it kind of negates getting BW. If we only have a single worker for a long time, it won't be doing much chopping. Maybe Stonehenge after a worker, who can then help by chopping. edit: Well, that proved wildly optimistic

    Caput most definitely does need some cottages. Not 10, but at least a few, as the map doesn't have a huge amount of early commerce. Assuming we build a lighthouse:
    At pop 5, working Fish, Pigs, Mine & 2 cottages we have a food surplus of 9.
    At pop 10, working Fish, Pigs, 4 Mines, 2 Farms & 2 cottages we have a food surplus of 8.

    So, we can pretty easily grow when we want to, even while working lots of mines to build those 7 wonders!

    I would also like to see a Granary in the very early build queue for Rome, once we have BW and switch to Slavery, we will whip here a lot.
     
  11. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    And we......
    Spoiler :


    ...built the GW :banana::whew: 1 wonder down... 6 to go





    Things got a bit dicey:
    Spoiler :


    Warriors spent a lot of time swapping about, we soon abandoned the SE corner as the barbs kept coming from the NE and west



    Oracle went super early, I admit I didn't even notice. I saw Stonehenge and went to the Wonders screen and saw Oracle there as well.

    Stonehenge was built before Archery was finished, so proceeded directly to BW. I still want to test options for settling city 3 before BW though.




    Upload Log:
    Spoiler :
    Here is your Session Turn Log from 2920 BC to 2120 BC:

    Turn 27, 2920 BC: Darius I adopts Slavery!
    Turn 27, 2920 BC: Zara Yaqob adopts Slavery!

    Turn 29, 2840 BC: The Oracle has been built in a far away land!

    Turn 32, 2720 BC: You have discovered The Wheel!
    Turn 32, 2720 BC: Brennus adopts Slavery!

    Turn 35, 2600 BC: Gilgamesh adopts Slavery!
    Turn 35, 2600 BC: Saladin adopts Hereditary Rule!

    Turn 36, 2560 BC: Hannibal adopts Slavery!

    Turn 38, 2480 BC: You have discovered Pottery!
    Turn 38, 2480 BC: Stonehenge has been built in a far away land!

    Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Julius Caesar's Warrior (2.50)
    Turn 39, 2440 BC: Combat Odds: 25.1%
    Turn 39, 2440 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
    Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
    Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
    Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
    Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
    Turn 39, 2440 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
    Turn 39, 2440 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
    Turn 39, 2440 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

    Turn 40, 2400 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Julius Caesar's Warrior (3.50)
    Turn 40, 2400 BC: Combat Odds: 3.3%
    Turn 40, 2400 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
    Turn 40, 2400 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
    Turn 40, 2400 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
    Turn 40, 2400 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
    Turn 40, 2400 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
    Turn 40, 2400 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
    Turn 40, 2400 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

    Turn 41, 2360 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Julius Caesar's Warrior (2.80)
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: Combat Odds: 12.2%
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: (Fortify: +5%)
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
    Turn 41, 2360 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

    Turn 42, 2320 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Julius Caesar's Warrior (3.58)
    Turn 42, 2320 BC: Combat Odds: 3.0%
    Turn 42, 2320 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
    Turn 42, 2320 BC: (Feature Defense: +20%)
    Turn 42, 2320 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
    Turn 42, 2320 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
    Turn 42, 2320 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
    Turn 42, 2320 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
    Turn 42, 2320 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

    Turn 43, 2280 BC: You have discovered Archery!

    Turn 45, 2200 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Caput Mundi!
    Turn 45, 2200 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Caput Mundi!
    Turn 45, 2200 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Julius Caesar's Warrior (3.50)
    Turn 45, 2200 BC: Combat Odds: 3.3%
    Turn 45, 2200 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
    Turn 45, 2200 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
    Turn 45, 2200 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
    Turn 45, 2200 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
    Turn 45, 2200 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
    Turn 45, 2200 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
    Turn 45, 2200 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
    Turn 45, 2200 BC: While defending, your Warrior has killed a Barbarian Warrior!

    Turn 46, 2160 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Caput Mundi!
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Caput Mundi!
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Julius Caesar has completed The Great Wall!
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Julius Caesar's Warrior (2.97)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Combat Odds: 10.3%
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: While defending, your Warrior has killed a Barbarian Warrior!
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Julius Caesar's Warrior (3.90)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Combat Odds: 1.0%
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: (Feature Defense: +20%)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: Julius Caesar's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
    Turn 46, 2160 BC: While defending, your Warrior has killed a Barbarian Warrior!

    Turn 47, 2120 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Caput Mundi!
    Turn 47, 2120 BC: Brennus is the worst enemy of Saladin.
    Turn 47, 2120 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Gilgamesh.
    Turn 47, 2120 BC: Saladin is the worst enemy of Brennus.


    Other images:
    Spoiler :




    Link to save Game is paused, some units have not moved
     
  12. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    :woohoo:

    Excellent work neil! :goodjob:

    That negates those raging Barbs, more or less. :)

    Now to expansion and finding the other civs. :mischief:
     
  13. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Agree with tech path. Need to find Iron and chop that jungle.

    Then where, Construction and HBR for War Elephants and Cats? Need Monarchy for Wine and Hereditary Rule...

    What Great Wonders do we want to target? Great Library and MoM? What else? 6 more... :eek:

    Concur, at least 3?


    Also agree. :whipped:

    We need to scout, with Archers?
     
  14. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    Concur with very early granary.
     
  15. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    Good job Neil.:goodjob: Here is a test game which reflects your results.

    Warriors have the correct XP and promotions, but not the injuries.:crazyeye:
    Added the newly grown forest next to our eastern border. I fixed 2 tiles I had wrong in previous test games. They did not have an impact on the previous tests. The Oracle was founded by Saladin and Stonehenge by Bennus. I have 6 more beakers invested in BW than the real game.
     
  16. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    That was fast Joe!

    Exploration could be done by some warriors, one of them has 4/5 xp and Woody 1 already. They will definitely die at some point but as soon as we get BW they are useless except as MP's, and even then only for our non-capital cities.

    Here is the list of Wonders that come before the modern age:

    No resources:
    - Great Lighthouse
    - AP

    Elephants:
    - Status of Zeus

    Copper:
    - Colossus
    - SoL

    Marble:
    - MoM
    - Great Lib
    - Taj Mahal
    - Parthenon
    - Versailles
    - Sistines

    Stone:
    - Hanging Gardens
    - University of Sankore
    - Chicken Pizza
    - Notre Dame
    - Shwedagon
    - Hagia Sophia
    - Angkor Wat

    Obviously we would like some Marble & Stone.... but failing that the GLH is the only earlyish wonder that does not have a resources bonus to building, and we only need to tech Sailing and build a lighthouse (which we want anyway) to build it.

    What I will try is research Sailing before Writing:
    1) and build Settler->Worker->Lighthouse(whip into...)->GLH (chopped). Rome can build Granary & archers... we will need 6 before we can settle #3.

    2) and build Settler->Settler->Lighthouse->(settle #3, finish BW & Revolt to slavery)->Worker(whipped for max o/f)->GLH(chopped). Rome can build 3 archers->Granary.
     
  17. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    1) BW & GLH before city #3
    Tech path: switch to Sailing for 2t, then resume BW after, Mathematics

    Cap : Settler, worker, lighthouse, GLH, settler, archer
    Rome: Granary then 5 archers!!, work pigs, then mine, then farm, in that priority order

    City 3 founded in 625bc, GLH built 900bc

    2) BW before city #3 & GLH
    Tech path: switch to Sailing immediately, then resume BW after. (no benefit of earlier BW as worker is busy and Cap not whippable), Mathematics

    Cap : Settler, worker, archer, lighthouse, settler, archer, GLH
    Rome: archers(4), then granary. work pigs, then mine, then farm, in that priority order

    City 3 founded in 950bc, GLH built in a far away land in 725bc when we were 3t to go


    3) BW after city #3
    Tech path: switch to Sailing immediately, then resume BW after but do not finish, switch to Mathematics, back to BW the turn we settle #3.

    Cap: Settler->Worker->Lighthouse->Settler->Archer->(settle #3, finish BW & Revolt to slavery)->GLH(chopped)
    Rome: Granary->Archers(2)

    City #3 founded 1080bc, GLH built 700bc


    Hmmmm, not sure about this one. If it wasn't for GLH being built by someone else I would favour #2 for sure
     

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  18. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Steadholder Supporter

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    I like #2 also or maybe some variant of it. I noticed that only in #3 did you mention the GLH was chopped.
     
  19. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    Good Job Neil.

    I agree with a Granary in the capital next.
    We should settle 3rd city after we know where copper is located since that may change where we settle. This will give the second city a chance to build a few archers.
    BW and sailing gets my nod for next tech for that reason.

    We should prioritize Monarchy for obvious reasons. Unfortunately the tech path is completely off the current needs such as Writing and Iron works. All this may change if we determine we can reach an AI or two.
     
  20. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    "Good Job Neil.

    I agree with a Granary in the capital next.
    We should settle 3rd city after we know where copper is located since that may change where we settle. This will give the second city a chance to build a few archers.
    BW and sailing gets my nod for next tech for that reason." Concur.
     

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