SGOTM 22 - Xteam

neilmeister · Sep 25, 2015

Some more graph gazing:

FE settled the coast on t1, researched AH (or Sailing) first and are building a WB. I cant otherwise explain their power & culture graphs. So, that means we are now 1t behind them.

Wow, they were brave to move the settler 2 squares coastward on t0.

leif erikson · Sep 25, 2015

neilmeister said:
A city by the Crabs & Horses might be a bit far, we could have issues keeping it connected and the maintenance might be a bit high, it will have a hammer problem I think, with horses being the only real source (no hills). Once workshops get a few bonuses this city would be fantastic.

Concur.

As much as I would like to have early horses, what I really want is Ivory!

neilmeister said:
1) 2N1E of Pigs
This city can be founded in 1840bc without any unit ever staying outside our empire, therefore we don't need to build any Archers to found it and we can build GW->Settler->Worker. (We could found it 1880bc, but our current worker would need to spend 2t roading the tile 2N1E of pigs outside our borders so the settler can move & settle 1880, wasting 2t of worker actions and with some small risk)
Until we have a method of controlling the unhappiness we can't use all the food we have effectively, so why not share it. Cap can work 2 cottages instead of the pigs.

It looks close to the Cap, but it only shares 2 tiles: Pigs & Wine. City 2 can give up the Pigs whenever Caput Mundi needs to grow fast. It has bananas, 2 grass wine, plenty of hills and lots of riverside grass. This city gets off to a very strong start with Pigs and will grow in 4t, by which time the farm is finished and the worker is starting to mine the GH.

Agree with this being priority one.

neilmeister said:
2) 1W of Corn
Founded in 1720bc, we only need 1 Warrior to fogbust this while our settler is on route... it has dry plains corn, horses, plains wine, 3 riverside GH and a few more hills/forests. The big drawback to this city is the corn is the only tile that will have a food surplus, and only 2. So this city will struggle to ever grow past 4.... it will have decent hammers and less maintenance than the other horse option, but thats all it has going for it.

Do not really like this site. Think we should wait to get Crab and Corn along with the Horses.

Perhaps we could look at a city to bridge between our 2nd city and this one up by the Cow? We'll have to see if anything of value is north of the cow?

neilmeister said:
3) Gems & Deer
Also founded in 1720bc, we only need 1 Warrior to fogbust this while our settler is on route... it has Gems, Deer, 2 river grass and 1 GH. It will be connected 2t after settling, and it will allow a horses city to be connected as well (with sailing). The Gems will help with happiness issues obviously, but we must build an Archer, slowing the next worker, and of the course the city starts with no improved tiles. The worker will finish camping the deer 7t after settling.

Always like Gems! When we can afford to settle this, we should do so unless something more valuable draws us away.

Jersey Joe · Sep 25, 2015

~~I should have kept the date~~ I founded Rome in 1640. Did fast test and messed up a little on MM think I can found it in 1680bc maybe even 1720bc.
Wheel->Archery->Mysticism->Pottery->BW
Caput built GW->Settler->Archer->Archer->Stonehenge->Workboat->Archer->Archer-Settler. WB was used to explore possibility of a southern passage to Rome.
With 2 turns to go till learning BW I switched to Writing while waiting for settler to get to spot between horses and crabs.
Settled city (Rome) then switched back to learn BW->Writing->Iron Working.
Rome (our only worker was improving tiles there) built Archer->Archer->Library. The archers went back to Caput to bring the total to 6 and we were ready to settle city 3.
Rome farmed river wine, 2 other river tiles then borders expanded started building a horse ranch.

Here is something I tried to see if the path was viable.
Wheel->Mysticism->Polytheism->Monotheism
Caput built GW->Settler->Warrior->Warrior->Stonehenge->
I got Judaism in Caput then founded second city.
Built Stonehenge in Caput, while learning those techs I skipped.
Only pluses are we get a happy face for knowing a religion and Temple of Solomon is a world wonder. Big downside is one of the AIs will probably beat us to it and we need so many other techs.

Ronnie1 · Sep 26, 2015

With all the jungle in our immediate vicinity, horses are bit less valuable in the near term.

I like the Ivory also. Settling in that direction is my choice, so option 1.

That leaves room for a city grabbing 3 elephants plus banana and sugar, but we need Iron Working before it is viable.

Jersey Joe · Sep 26, 2015

If we are not going for the horses, why not get an elephant for the happiness?

The forested hill that gets an elephant, wet wine, dry wine and a cow might be a good spot.

leif erikson · Sep 26, 2015

Our cities ought to be able to support one another, especially without horse based units. Placing our second city that far out may present problems supporting it. Even with a road, that is a fair few turns movement to get help there if needed.

Cactus Pete · Sep 26, 2015

Jersey Joe said:
If we are not going for the horses, why not get an elephant for the happiness?

The forested hill that gets an elephant, wet wine, dry wine and a cow might be a good spot.

How would it expand any time soon?

Jersey Joe · Sep 26, 2015

Cactus Pete said:
How would it expand any time soon?

Expansion is the reason I want to research Mysticism and build Stonehenge. While I have built Stonehenge 3 times after settling the second city it is no guarantee we could do it in the actual game.

Jersey Joe · Sep 26, 2015

I am not against settling a second city that uses the pigs. I just like to explore alternatives in case one might be better. Currently, it does not look like there is a better alternative.
When I mention we need happiness I am actually talking about what we need to make it easier to build cities 4 and 5. Though getting Monarchy solves the happiness problem.

I did do a test run building the city Neil suggested to use the Pigs.
Research: Wheel->Pottery->Archery->Mystism->Bronze Working->Writing->Iron Working
Caput Build Queue: GW->Settler->Stonehenge->Archer->Settler
Worker (guarded by 2 warriors) roaded to the settling spot then roaded river hill. Worker then moved to farm 1n of pig and warriors returned to Caput.
1880BC: Rome settled and gets Pigs to work. After Rome is settled a warrior moves from Caput to Rome and 2 other warriors leave to scout.
Rome Build Queue Archer->Archer->Archer->Library
Worker improves tiles for Rome
1640BC BW->Writing Revolt to Slavery
1200BC Writing->IW
1100BC about ready to settle third city.

Caput does not need cottages you never work anything other than hills, fish and pigs.
What Caput needs (besides health and happiness) is a lighthouse and farms so we can grow to size 26 and support 13 cities. Maybe it could also use the Moai Statues.

neilmeister · Sep 26, 2015

We do need to explore all the alternatives, and to a distant enough date to allow true comparison. The most optimal path is not always the most obvious or intuitive. I will put some tests up out to a further date.

Stonehenge after the first settler would also be great, but it kind of negates getting BW. If we only have a single worker for a long time, it won't be doing much chopping. Maybe Stonehenge after a worker, who can then help by chopping. edit: Well, that proved wildly optimistic

Caput most definitely does need some cottages. Not 10, but at least a few, as the map doesn't have a huge amount of early commerce. Assuming we build a lighthouse:
At pop 5, working Fish, Pigs, Mine & 2 cottages we have a food surplus of 9.
At pop 10, working Fish, Pigs, 4 Mines, 2 Farms & 2 cottages we have a food surplus of 8.

So, we can pretty easily grow when we want to, even while working lots of mines to build those 7 wonders!

I would also like to see a Granary in the very early build queue for Rome, once we have BW and switch to Slavery, we will whip here a lot.

neilmeister · Sep 26, 2015

And we......

Spoiler :

Things got a bit dicey:

Spoiler :

Upload Log:

Spoiler :

Other images:

Spoiler :

Link to save Game is paused, some units have not moved

leif erikson · Sep 26, 2015

Excellent work neil! :goodjob:

That negates those raging Barbs, more or less.

Now to expansion and finding the other civs. :mischief:

leif erikson · Sep 26, 2015

Jersey Joe said:
Research: Bronze Working->Writing->Iron Working
Caput Build Queue: GW->Settler->Stonehenge->Archer->Settler

Agree with tech path. Need to find Iron and chop that jungle.

Then where, Construction and HBR for War Elephants and Cats? Need Monarchy for Wine and Hereditary Rule...

What Great Wonders do we want to target? Great Library and MoM? What else? 6 more... :eek:

neilmeister said:
Caput most definitely does need some cottages.

Concur, at least 3?

neilmeister said:
I would also like to see a Granary in the very early build queue for Rome, once we have BW and switch to Slavery, we will whip here a lot.

Also agree. :whipped:

We need to scout, with Archers?

Cactus Pete · Sep 26, 2015

Concur with very early granary.

Jersey Joe · Sep 26, 2015

Good job Neil. :goodjob:

Here is a test game which reflects your results.

Warriors have the correct XP and promotions, but not the injuries. :crazyeye:

Added the newly grown forest next to our eastern border. I fixed 2 tiles I had wrong in previous test games. They did not have an impact on the previous tests. The Oracle was founded by Saladin and Stonehenge by Bennus. I have 6 more beakers invested in BW than the real game.

neilmeister · Sep 27, 2015

That was fast Joe!

Exploration could be done by some warriors, one of them has 4/5 xp and Woody 1 already. They will definitely die at some point but as soon as we get BW they are useless except as MP's, and even then only for our non-capital cities.

Here is the list of Wonders that come before the modern age:

No resources:
- Great Lighthouse
- AP

Elephants:
- Status of Zeus

Copper:
- Colossus
- SoL

Marble:
- MoM
- Great Lib
- Taj Mahal
- Parthenon
- Versailles
- Sistines

Stone:
- Hanging Gardens
- University of Sankore
- Chicken Pizza
- Notre Dame
- Shwedagon
- Hagia Sophia
- Angkor Wat

Obviously we would like some Marble & Stone.... but failing that the GLH is the only earlyish wonder that does not have a resources bonus to building, and we only need to tech Sailing and build a lighthouse (which we want anyway) to build it.

What I will try is research Sailing before Writing:
1) and build Settler->Worker->Lighthouse(whip into...)->GLH (chopped). Rome can build Granary & archers... we will need 6 before we can settle #3.

2) and build Settler->Settler->Lighthouse->(settle #3, finish BW & Revolt to slavery)->Worker(whipped for max o/f)->GLH(chopped). Rome can build 3 archers->Granary.

neilmeister · Sep 27, 2015

1) BW & GLH before city #3
Tech path: switch to Sailing for 2t, then resume BW after, Mathematics

Cap : Settler, worker, lighthouse, GLH, settler, archer
Rome: Granary then 5 archers!!, work pigs, then mine, then farm, in that priority order

City 3 founded in 625bc, GLH built 900bc

2) BW before city #3 & GLH
Tech path: switch to Sailing immediately, then resume BW after. (no benefit of earlier BW as worker is busy and Cap not whippable), Mathematics

Cap : Settler, worker, archer, lighthouse, settler, archer, GLH
Rome: archers(4), then granary. work pigs, then mine, then farm, in that priority order

City 3 founded in 950bc, GLH built in a far away land in 725bc when we were 3t to go

3) BW after city #3
Tech path: switch to Sailing immediately, then resume BW after but do not finish, switch to Mathematics, back to BW the turn we settle #3.

Cap: Settler->Worker->Lighthouse->Settler->Archer->(settle #3, finish BW & Revolt to slavery)->GLH(chopped)
Rome: Granary->Archers(2)

City #3 founded 1080bc, GLH built 700bc

Hmmmm, not sure about this one. If it wasn't for GLH being built by someone else I would favour #2 for sure

Jersey Joe · Sep 27, 2015

neilmeister said:
1) BW & GLH before city #3
Tech path: switch to Sailing for 2t, then resume BW after, Mathematics

Cap : Settler, worker, lighthouse, GLH, settler, archer
Rome: Granary then 5 archers!!, work pigs, then mine, then farm, in that priority order

City 3 founded in 625bc, GLH built 900bc

2) BW before city #3 & GLH
Tech path: switch to Sailing immediately, then resume BW after. (no benefit of earlier BW as worker is busy and Cap not whippable), Mathematics

Cap : Settler, worker, archer, lighthouse, settler, archer, GLH
Rome: archers(4), then granary. work pigs, then mine, then farm, in that priority order

City 3 founded in 950bc, GLH built in a far away land in 725bc when we were 3t to go

3) BW after city #3
Tech path: switch to Sailing immediately, then resume BW after but do not finish, switch to Mathematics, back to BW the turn we settle #3.

Cap: Settler->Worker->Lighthouse->Settler->Archer->(settle #3, finish BW & Revolt to slavery)->GLH(chopped)
Rome: Granary->Archers(2)

City #3 founded 1080bc, GLH built 700bc

Hmmmm, not sure about this one. If it wasn't for GLH being built by someone else I would favour #2 for sure

I like #2 also or maybe some variant of it. I noticed that only in #3 did you mention the GLH was chopped.

Htadus · Sep 27, 2015

Good Job Neil.

I agree with a Granary in the capital next.
We should settle 3rd city after we know where copper is located since that may change where we settle. This will give the second city a chance to build a few archers.
BW and sailing gets my nod for next tech for that reason.

We should prioritize Monarchy for obvious reasons. Unfortunately the tech path is completely off the current needs such as Writing and Iron works. All this may change if we determine we can reach an AI or two.

Cactus Pete · Sep 27, 2015

"Good Job Neil.

I agree with a Granary in the capital next.
We should settle 3rd city after we know where copper is located since that may change where we settle. This will give the second city a chance to build a few archers.
BW and sailing gets my nod for next tech for that reason." Concur.

SGOTM 22 - Xteam

Lentils have feelings too

Game of the Month Fanatic

Steadholder

Deity

Steadholder

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Steadholder

Steadholder

Lentils have feelings too

Lentils have feelings too

Game of the Month Fanatic

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Steadholder

Lentils have feelings too

Lentils have feelings too

Attachments

Steadholder

A and L's dad

Deity

Similar threads