SGOTM 22 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I have heard this rumour many times... and I have tried to prove it with testing, but I could not. The results were random.
Are we taking a risk: for sure! but the payoff is huge.
2160bc is not a terrible date for GW on Monarch. I know that some AI start with great hammers but I doubt they will having Masonry (or probably even Mining)
Are we taking a risk: for sure! but the payoff is huge.
2160bc is not a terrible date for GW on Monarch. I know that some AI start with great hammers but I doubt they will having Masonry (or probably even Mining)
Civ's equivalent of an urban legend, huh?
Concur with your logic, Neil.
Concur with your logic, Neil.
Ronnie1
Deity
Live the LEGEND!
Seriously though, do we need/want Agriculture early for the bonus on AH and Pottery or do we skip it? If we skip it, there is no reason to not go Masonry 1st and get some hammers into GW early just because it is the 3rd build we want to complete.
Seriously though, do we need/want Agriculture early for the bonus on AH and Pottery or do we skip it? If we skip it, there is no reason to not go Masonry 1st and get some hammers into GW early just because it is the 3rd build we want to complete.
Ronnie1
Deity
Also, if we work the riverside grass hill until the border pop we get the WB sooner and gain 3 extra coins while growing to size 2.
For what it is worht, leader traits in the first test game
Financial Charismatic
Spiritual Creative
Aggressive Philosophical
Expansive Industrious
Protective Spiritual (Saladin)
Charismatic Protective is Churchill who built the GW the only 3 times I lost it. Several times when I built the GW Churchill built Stonehenge.
Leader traits in the current test game
Protective Spiritual (Saladin)
Spiritual Charismatic
Imperialistic Protective
Aggressive Financial
Creative Organized
Industrious Spiritual
Financial Charismatic
Spiritual Creative
Aggressive Philosophical
Expansive Industrious
Protective Spiritual (Saladin)
Charismatic Protective is Churchill who built the GW the only 3 times I lost it. Several times when I built the GW Churchill built Stonehenge.
Leader traits in the current test game
Protective Spiritual (Saladin)
Spiritual Charismatic
Imperialistic Protective
Aggressive Financial
Creative Organized
Industrious Spiritual
Ronnie1
Deity
Do we have some sort of consensus on build order and tech path?
Back from NZ....
As we have discussed, the options are:
1) Build a worker before GW, best empire infra
2) Build GW immediately after WB, empire infra lagging 1)
3) Not building GW at all, with Raging barbs & need for 7 wonders in Cap, this seems dangerous
If we do 1), then there is no difference to the time we finish GW if we get Agr before AH, but we do get about an extra 30hammers beakers.
If we do 2), then we need Masonry first, and by the time we have our first worker we have finished AH, Pottery & Wheel.
If we do 3), we need horses or Archery.
All of the testing indicates WB first is not in doubt, it works out best no matter what our other plans are.
With no tech trading there is no advantage in skipping early techs, unless skipping them gives us a shortcut somehow, and if we build GW then by the time we finish it we can have a variety of choices for building 3. Granary/Library seem most likely.
1) Agr, Masonry, AH, Wheel, Pottery, Writing
2) Masonry first
3) AH, Archery if no horses.... Wheel, Pottery, Writing, Agr?
I kind of thought we had broad consensus around 1).... take the risk and go for gold by setting up our empire the best we can
As we have discussed, the options are:
1) Build a worker before GW, best empire infra
2) Build GW immediately after WB, empire infra lagging 1)
3) Not building GW at all, with Raging barbs & need for 7 wonders in Cap, this seems dangerous
If we do 1), then there is no difference to the time we finish GW if we get Agr before AH, but we do get about an extra 30
If we do 2), then we need Masonry first, and by the time we have our first worker we have finished AH, Pottery & Wheel.
If we do 3), we need horses or Archery.
All of the testing indicates WB first is not in doubt, it works out best no matter what our other plans are.
With no tech trading there is no advantage in skipping early techs, unless skipping them gives us a shortcut somehow, and if we build GW then by the time we finish it we can have a variety of choices for building 3. Granary/Library seem most likely.
1) Agr, Masonry, AH, Wheel, Pottery, Writing
2) Masonry first
3) AH, Archery if no horses.... Wheel, Pottery, Writing, Agr?
I kind of thought we had broad consensus around 1).... take the risk and go for gold by setting up our empire the best we can
Agree with option 1, let's take the risk and see where we go with it. 
Ronnie1
Deity
What is our placeholder build to grow to size 2 after the WB?
Also, tile use for building the WB before the border pop?
The grass hill allows for quicker completion of the WB. This leads to few more coins around T14. But it slows growth by those same turns. Completion of the follow along worker is not affected either way. What is affected is the intermediate build where hammer decay may be a problem.
Option 1 for me also.
Also, tile use for building the WB before the border pop?
The grass hill allows for quicker completion of the WB. This leads to few more coins around T14. But it slows growth by those same turns. Completion of the follow along worker is not affected either way. What is affected is the intermediate build where hammer decay may be a problem.
Option 1 for me also.
I am for option 1 and more exploration, besides horses we need happiness resources.
1 is fine by me. Might want to pause for discussion after AH.
We start WB and firstly use a river grass tile (2F1C) until we pop borders and switch the the pigs.
When we hit pop 2 (we do this with 0 overflow food) we switch both tiles to forested grass hills (1F2H) which mean we pop the WB in another 5 turns.
Joe and I tried pretty much every combination of WB or Worker first with various micro and this start was always best.
Worker is then started using 1t of Pigs & GH, then Pigs and netted fish. Worker finishes 3t before AH so it mines the hill first, at first I thought this would be slower, but Joe proved it was faster for GW. It was at this time we realised Agr first saved beakers but did not slow growth or GW.
Playing now....
t4 - we meet Zara Yacob
t5 - we meet Darius & Hannibal
t6 - we meet Brennus
They were all scouts in a conga line to our south
t11 - we meet Gilgamesh (also from the south)
t12 - t26 - Our warriors defeat a few bears and a panther (no easy wolves or even lions) but thankfully all 4 make it back alive.
There are horses far to the east by dry plains corn, the map looks rather unappealing considering we have a limit on how many cities we can settle. Jungle.... as far as the eye can see going north... and no hint of anyone else's culture.
Raging barbs will be a real pain
Images:
Upload log:
Link to save
t4 - we meet Zara Yacob
t5 - we meet Darius & Hannibal
t6 - we meet Brennus
They were all scouts in a conga line to our south
t11 - we meet Gilgamesh (also from the south)
t12 - t26 - Our warriors defeat a few bears and a panther (no easy wolves or even lions) but thankfully all 4 make it back alive.
There are horses far to the east by dry plains corn, the map looks rather unappealing considering we have a limit on how many cities we can settle. Jungle.... as far as the eye can see going north... and no hint of anyone else's culture.
Raging barbs will be a real pain
Images:
Spoiler :
Upload log:
Spoiler :
Link to save
Good Luck! 
edit -
So did all our opponents come from the south, from between those mountain ranges?
If so, perhaps we should found our first city near the Gems and Deer to block things from coming north?
Of course, they could go around it by sea...
edit -
So did all our opponents come from the south, from between those mountain ranges?
If so, perhaps we should found our first city near the Gems and Deer to block things from coming north?
Of course, they could go around it by sea...
Yes, they all came from the south. According to the map coordinates, so is the bottom of the map, so I am sure that they are all just planted scouts.
We met the 1st on t1 and we cannot see anyone elses city culture
We met the 1st on t1 and we cannot see anyone elses city culture
Ronnie1
Deity
Well done!
Clearly planted scouts.
Many settling options, few that look very good in the short term, imo.
Horse, Crab, Corn, Wine....or 2*Elephant+food in the NE. But the latter is jungle infested, and former is quite some distance.
Clearly planted scouts.
Many settling options, few that look very good in the short term, imo.
Horse, Crab, Corn, Wine....or 2*Elephant+food in the NE. But the latter is jungle infested, and former is quite some distance.
Well played. Note our warriors won three battles. Were they all with bears?
Might be wise to pause the game before Saving in the future.
Why were the scouts planted? We can't trade techs with anyone, and we can't trade resources until we have trade routes. Is it just so we have to deal with their demands, or is it so they will know where to come conquering?
We're going to want BW.
Might be wise to pause the game before Saving in the future.
Why were the scouts planted? We can't trade techs with anyone, and we can't trade resources until we have trade routes. Is it just so we have to deal with their demands, or is it so they will know where to come conquering?
We're going to want BW.
2 bears & 1 panther, blow by blow details in the Upload log in the game report post I made. Sorry for not pausing.
Agreed that no city location really stands out. Calendar & IW are clearly high priority techs for us. Our original thought of phants/banana is still probably best as it has lots of river grass tiles and a GH without a forest that we can mine.
Don't know why scouts were so obviously planted... they are not obviously a group that will split into 2 factions. It could have been done to try protect us from barbs if we are truly isolated... 6 scouts wandering around will prevent a lot of spawning.
I am happy to carry on to end of GW.... I think the only real decision is tech path:
Do we want Archery before Pottery/Writing as a backup to not getting GW?
Agreed that no city location really stands out. Calendar & IW are clearly high priority techs for us. Our original thought of phants/banana is still probably best as it has lots of river grass tiles and a GH without a forest that we can mine.
Don't know why scouts were so obviously planted... they are not obviously a group that will split into 2 factions. It could have been done to try protect us from barbs if we are truly isolated... 6 scouts wandering around will prevent a lot of spawning.
I am happy to carry on to end of GW.... I think the only real decision is tech path:
Do we want Archery before Pottery/Writing as a backup to not getting GW?
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