Mitchum
Deity
I'll try to start in a couple of hours once the kids are off to school. Try to be online if you want any input to the turn-by-turn goings on. I'll stop if there is a worker steal opportunity or the SHTF.
SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I'm here. Should be exciting! 
Mitchum
Deity
I'm here. Should be exciting!
You mean you're not playing your 15 million score game!
LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 23,756
Alexandria is on the coast, Thebes and the Pyramids are far inland. Not shown, but Mecca is east of Thebes. Our warrior may have to skirt up north to bypass the Red Sea.
Mitchum
Deity
Good point, LC. I'll do that but I'll probably head east first to hopefully find a road network to speed things up and to avoid any barbs up north.
BTW, with so many AIs having so many cities, can barbs already enter our culture? I forget the required number of cities but we should be getting pretty close, no?
Playing now...
BTW, with so many AIs having so many cities, can barbs already enter our culture? I forget the required number of cities but we should be getting pretty close, no?
Playing now...
Mitchum
Deity
T48 (cont.)
Scout goes NE out of Bombay and sees the two flat tiles LC fog gazed. One has wet sugar and the other is a riverside grass tile. There are also junglified 'nanas. I will wait until next turn and then take one step out to see what's there. Maybe well meet AI #12 IBT?!?
HBR at 100%.
Warrior toward Hamburg. Key spawn tiles still covered.
Settler and worker head toward cow-E.
Jesus and Warrior1 already moved to meet Hatty and Sal.
Revolt to Slavery.
Trade Writing to Gandhi for Archery in the hopes it doesn't piss Sal off too much.
Sal goes from +4 (Fair Trade) to 0 (-4 for trading with WE). Oh well. We knew that would happen.
+2 with Gandhi now for Fair Trade.
Per post #588:
Gift Writing to Joao (+1 Fair Trade) and Churchill (+1 Fair Trade).
Gift Writing to Darius (+2 Fair Trade) per WT's request to include him in our club, which includes Darius, Gandhi, Joao, Churchill and Sal.
The only AIs without Writing now include Fred, Mehmed, Stalin and Alex. Many of them are missing other basic techs as well.
T49
Stalin is now the worst enemy of Fred but Fred still won't OB with us.
Hatty has Meditation and Polytheism.
5 AIs have Masonry but none will trade it (Moa, Hatty, Joao, Mehmed and Churchill).
Settle Cow-E-Bunga and start Granary.
We can see London across the English Channel. It's defended by a single CG-Drill archer.
The Scout goes one tile further NE. There is still one more safe tile to go to but it looks like jungle beyond that. I'll check it out next turn just in case AI #12 or The Orient happen to be right there.
Whip worker. Whip WB in FurCity.
CEB has a 2C TR with Medina.
Of the AI cities that we can see, none have more than 50H into a build except Delhi, which has 53H.
T50
Fred adopts Slavery, so he researched BW.
It was bound to happen well before we could touch him though. Fred already had a mine on his copper but it doesn't have a road on it yet.
Fred moves a warrior to Hamburg-SW+SW. If he keeps coming towards us, we'll have to delay any worker stealing until we have a chariot to deal with him.
We have 4 EPs on Hatty but she hasn't put any on us yet.
Warrior finds Hamburg defended by a single warrior and a worker on the sheep! I could nab him next turn! Let's see where his wandering warrior goes.
Turn on avoid growth in Paris for 1 turn.
No one has Masonry available for trade.
Hatty learned Hunting.
A barb archer wandered upon our scout IBT so he has to retreat back one tile this turn.
Darius has 60H into a build in Persepolis. No other build larger than 50H ongoing that we can see.
Build partial road at CEB-NE. Hope for worker steal next turn.
T51
Herodotus tells us that the largest Civs in order are: Stalin, Unknown, Hatty, Nappy, Fred, Mao, Gandhi, Darius.
Fred's warrior goes 1W!
It can reach CWB in 4 turns and threatens before that. We need to know how long until he talks if he threatens and we don't...
Still just one warrior in Hamburg.
Worker finishes the sheep pasture.
Warrior 2 finally sees Mecca (pop 3) and Medina (pop 2). Heading NW now to find a land route to Hatty.
I forgot to mention that Churchill has a galley at London-2W. Could he be trying to colonize the mainland?
Still no road on Churchill's copper mine.
Fred's worker is ours... at least for now.
No units at Hamburg-2S.
Worker finishes road.
T52
No retaliation from Fred, but his warrior came back to where he was on T50. The people in CEB breath a sigh of relief.
I suppose I move the worker and warrior 1W to the forest and dare Fred's warrior to find us hiding up in the trees. If he does, we'll just drop rocks on his head!
Churchill gets a GPro in London! His galley moved 2E but I can't see if he unloaded any troops yet. Maybe he'll settle Churchburg for us...
Fred just can't make up his mind as we're his worst enemy again. At least Stalin has another market for his crappy vodka again.
Our warrior finds a land path into Egypt. :thumbsup. I can't wait to see how juicy her lands are.
Lisbon still only has 2 warriors defending it. He has a worker improving a horse resource at Lisbon-E.
The scout sees no way through the jungle. No AI #12 in sight. He's going to explore south of India now.
Darius has 80H into a build in Persepolis.
Still no EPs on us from Hatty. We have 12 EPs and need 86 to see her research.
7 AIs now have Masonry. Add Stalin and Darius to the crowd.
T53
Jesus can't see Egypt yet but he now sees 2 more coastal tiles under Egyptian control that would have been coastal even without BSB's love for coastal ocean tiles. One of the tiles has magical fish nets.
Paris is size 5 and will grow into unhappiness next turn. That's incentive to whip the settler!
Fred's warrior goes to Berlin-N+NW. He's abandoning the load warrior in Hamburg.
Still no road on Fred's copper for what that's worth.
Churchill's galley met Fred. It doesn't look like it dumped any units off on the mainland. It guess it's a solo trip to prove that the world is flat!
Mehmed learned IW. The rest of the AIs should be getting it in the next 10ish turns too, I would suspect. What are the odds that we have iron too?
Fred: Berlin -> 0H, Hamburg -> 8H. I don't see a granary in Hamburg.
Darius has 90H into a build in Persepolis. It's not too late for GW fail gold...
J/K
After much deliberation, our warrior is coming home. He expects a massive parade when he gets there, LC! Please take care of that detail for us!
Parade has been canceled. Sorry, little dude. Paris has plans to build its own MP unit now. Back into the bush!
T54
Darius comes begging for AH and we comply, especially since he's on our good list. Darius is Stalin's WE but Stalin doesn't bat an eye at this exchange. Too much cheap vodka I suppose.
Stalin is also busy expanding his empire by founding Yakaterinburg (city #6).
Fred is willing to talk be I hold off.
It looks to be coastal "ocean" tiles all the way to Egypt.
The road to Egypt through Arabia appears to be a 2-tile-wide bridge of plains hills.
Hamburg is still being guarded by 1 warrior.
As mentioned below, Fred has an axe at Berlin-N+NE. Our power rating is 0.8 of Fred's. Will he CF?
Anger is crippling Paris with 2
citizens. +2 for safety and still 5 turns of whip anger. Our warrior will come next turn but this will delay the settler for StoneCity by a turn.
Fred: Berlin -> 38H (+38H from last turn but could be from OF), Hamburg -> 9H (+1H).
Darius finished whatever he was building in Persepolis. Settler?
T55
Fred's axe pins our warrior.
Hatty will trade stone.
I went ahead with the settler build and it's ready to whip this turn.
I did not whip the granary.
Turnset over.
Decided to move warrior first to look into Thebes. 1 archer and 1 warrior. On a PH. 2 magical fish.
Hatty will trade stone!
Scout goes NE out of Bombay and sees the two flat tiles LC fog gazed. One has wet sugar and the other is a riverside grass tile. There are also junglified 'nanas. I will wait until next turn and then take one step out to see what's there. Maybe well meet AI #12 IBT?!?
HBR at 100%.
Warrior toward Hamburg. Key spawn tiles still covered.
Settler and worker head toward cow-E.
Jesus and Warrior1 already moved to meet Hatty and Sal.
Revolt to Slavery.
Trade Writing to Gandhi for Archery in the hopes it doesn't piss Sal off too much.
Sal goes from +4 (Fair Trade) to 0 (-4 for trading with WE). Oh well. We knew that would happen.
+2 with Gandhi now for Fair Trade.
Per post #588:
Gift Writing to Joao (+1 Fair Trade) and Churchill (+1 Fair Trade).
Gift Writing to Darius (+2 Fair Trade) per WT's request to include him in our club, which includes Darius, Gandhi, Joao, Churchill and Sal.
The only AIs without Writing now include Fred, Mehmed, Stalin and Alex. Many of them are missing other basic techs as well.
T49
Stalin is now the worst enemy of Fred but Fred still won't OB with us.
Hatty has Meditation and Polytheism.
5 AIs have Masonry but none will trade it (Moa, Hatty, Joao, Mehmed and Churchill).
Settle Cow-E-Bunga and start Granary.
We can see London across the English Channel. It's defended by a single CG-Drill archer.
The Scout goes one tile further NE. There is still one more safe tile to go to but it looks like jungle beyond that. I'll check it out next turn just in case AI #12 or The Orient happen to be right there.
Whip worker. Whip WB in FurCity.
CEB has a 2C TR with Medina.
Of the AI cities that we can see, none have more than 50H into a build except Delhi, which has 53H.
T50
Fred adopts Slavery, so he researched BW.
It was bound to happen well before we could touch him though. Fred already had a mine on his copper but it doesn't have a road on it yet.Fred moves a warrior to Hamburg-SW+SW. If he keeps coming towards us, we'll have to delay any worker stealing until we have a chariot to deal with him.
We have 4 EPs on Hatty but she hasn't put any on us yet.
Warrior finds Hamburg defended by a single warrior and a worker on the sheep! I could nab him next turn! Let's see where his wandering warrior goes.
Turn on avoid growth in Paris for 1 turn.
No one has Masonry available for trade.
Hatty learned Hunting.
A barb archer wandered upon our scout IBT so he has to retreat back one tile this turn.
Darius has 60H into a build in Persepolis. No other build larger than 50H ongoing that we can see.
Build partial road at CEB-NE. Hope for worker steal next turn.
T51
Herodotus tells us that the largest Civs in order are: Stalin, Unknown, Hatty, Nappy, Fred, Mao, Gandhi, Darius.
Fred's warrior goes 1W!
It can reach CWB in 4 turns and threatens before that. We need to know how long until he talks if he threatens and we don't...Still just one warrior in Hamburg.
Worker finishes the sheep pasture.
Warrior 2 finally sees Mecca (pop 3) and Medina (pop 2). Heading NW now to find a land route to Hatty.
I forgot to mention that Churchill has a galley at London-2W. Could he be trying to colonize the mainland?
Still no road on Churchill's copper mine.
Fred's worker is ours... at least for now.
No units at Hamburg-2S.Worker finishes road.
T52
No retaliation from Fred, but his warrior came back to where he was on T50. The people in CEB breath a sigh of relief.
I suppose I move the worker and warrior 1W to the forest and dare Fred's warrior to find us hiding up in the trees. If he does, we'll just drop rocks on his head!
Churchill gets a GPro in London! His galley moved 2E but I can't see if he unloaded any troops yet. Maybe he'll settle Churchburg for us...
Fred just can't make up his mind as we're his worst enemy again. At least Stalin has another market for his crappy vodka again.
Our warrior finds a land path into Egypt. :thumbsup. I can't wait to see how juicy her lands are.
Lisbon still only has 2 warriors defending it. He has a worker improving a horse resource at Lisbon-E.
The scout sees no way through the jungle. No AI #12 in sight. He's going to explore south of India now.
Darius has 80H into a build in Persepolis.
Still no EPs on us from Hatty. We have 12 EPs and need 86 to see her research.
7 AIs now have Masonry. Add Stalin and Darius to the crowd.
T53
Jesus can't see Egypt yet but he now sees 2 more coastal tiles under Egyptian control that would have been coastal even without BSB's love for coastal ocean tiles. One of the tiles has magical fish nets.
Paris is size 5 and will grow into unhappiness next turn. That's incentive to whip the settler!
Fred's warrior goes to Berlin-N+NW. He's abandoning the load warrior in Hamburg.
Still no road on Fred's copper for what that's worth.
Churchill's galley met Fred. It doesn't look like it dumped any units off on the mainland. It guess it's a solo trip to prove that the world is flat!
Mehmed learned IW. The rest of the AIs should be getting it in the next 10ish turns too, I would suspect. What are the odds that we have iron too?
Fred: Berlin -> 0H, Hamburg -> 8H. I don't see a granary in Hamburg.
Darius has 90H into a build in Persepolis. It's not too late for GW fail gold...
J/KAfter much deliberation, our warrior is coming home. He expects a massive parade when he gets there, LC! Please take care of that detail for us!
Parade has been canceled. Sorry, little dude. Paris has plans to build its own MP unit now. Back into the bush!
T54
Darius comes begging for AH and we comply, especially since he's on our good list. Darius is Stalin's WE but Stalin doesn't bat an eye at this exchange. Too much cheap vodka I suppose.
Stalin is also busy expanding his empire by founding Yakaterinburg (city #6).
Fred is willing to talk be I hold off.
It looks to be coastal "ocean" tiles all the way to Egypt.
The road to Egypt through Arabia appears to be a 2-tile-wide bridge of plains hills.
Hamburg is still being guarded by 1 warrior.
As mentioned below, Fred has an axe at Berlin-N+NE. Our power rating is 0.8 of Fred's. Will he CF?
Anger is crippling Paris with 2
citizens. +2 for safety and still 5 turns of whip anger. Our warrior will come next turn but this will delay the settler for StoneCity by a turn.Fred: Berlin -> 38H (+38H from last turn but could be from OF), Hamburg -> 9H (+1H).
Darius finished whatever he was building in Persepolis. Settler?
T55
Fred's axe pins our warrior.
Hatty will trade stone.
I went ahead with the settler build and it's ready to whip this turn.
I did not whip the granary.
Turnset over.
Decided to move warrior first to look into Thebes. 1 archer and 1 warrior. On a PH. 2 magical fish.
Hatty will trade stone!
LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 23,756
39 cities, iiuc. My goto reference:
Naahh!! There can only be one Guru -- and his name is
Spoiler :
Well, here is what I found digging through the 3.17 SDK (finally with a new Debug dll, yeah!):
Barbs enter cultural borders if an appropriate mission is chosen in CvUnitAI::AI_barbAttackMove(). This function is only called for barbarian units with UNITAI_ATTACK (barb animals always have UNITAI_ANIMAL and they cannot enter owned plots anyway). So this represents a direct effect of the difficulty level as non-animal barbs (Warriors and Archers) spawn earlier plus in greater numbers on the higher levels. The indirect effect is indeed given by the conditional behavior of the barb units depending on the total number of non-barb cities on the whole map (not continents! -- the continents(=areas) only determine their number of needed barbs according to their unowned tiles).
There are 2 thresholds:
A) NumCities > 2*NumPlayersAlive:
B) NumCities > 3*NumPlayersAlive:
- Barbs will enter your territory if they can pillage an improvement on their next turn, so the common 1
barb Warriors and Archers will intrude to pillage improvements in your border tiles. I'm not certain about 2
- Barbs will enter your territory if they can attack a city on the same turn --> this should only be possible for the uncommon 2
The restrictions for the missions are lifted to
With GAMEOPTION_RAGING_BARBARIANS it gets even worse (NumCities is irrelevant then):
- pillage on the 3rd turn
- attack city on the second turn
- If the barbs have calculated AREAAI_OFFENSIVE for their AreaAI (huge numbers of ATTACK barb units, most likely after random event; normally it's AREAAI_MASSING) they will straight target their chosen city without any such restrictions.
Important things to keep in mind:
- pillage on the 4th turn
- attack city on the 3rd turn
- target city when AREAAI_OFFENSIVE
- Barbs will ALWAYS enter your borders if they can attack one of your units directly (--> watch your Workers!).
- Once they have entered your territory, they will consider the following options for their current turn
- pillage an improvement (50%)
- attack somebody
- depending on conditions A and B move to another tile to pillage or attack a city (or target a city)
- patrol --> here they always prefer to move into unowned tiles (this is why they don't enter in the first place; if possible they will move out again; if they somehow get boxed in by cultural borders they might also "have to" enter your territory with this mission)
- Hence they can also change their minds - if they enter to pillage on their 3rd turn, they will choose to attack somebody on their second turn if possible (if you move a defending unit to an adjacent tile).
- There are certainly special situations where barb behavior might contradict the above rules (the code for unit AI is pretty complex...)
Mitchum
Deity
We have 13 players alive and 25 cities that we know about. (24 that we can see and at least 1 from AI #12). We've met the first threshold.
I see a potential problem with the northern 'key spawn tile'.
If we think we can get another worker on the sheep, then a barb could spawn on that tile.
Should be preventable with the worker. So my advice is: don't move the worker until after the warrior. And, cancel the worker's action every turn in case we need to move him.
If we think we can get another worker on the sheep, then a barb could spawn on that tile.
Should be preventable with the worker. So my advice is: don't move the worker until after the warrior. And, cancel the worker's action every turn in case we need to move him.
Don't give up so easily. Keep an eye on all his units. One more worker would be really nice.
Mitchum
Deity
Yep. I saw that too. I'll keep the worker in the area and cancel his action each turn as suggested.
LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 23,756
Good to check Masonry trades every turn because all it takes is some AI, like Churchill, meeting the right AI and he's at 100%, but not till after GW or GLH is completed.
Code:
% AIs needed to know the tech
SAIL BRONZE WKG Masonry
===== =========== =======
Strongest unit: 3 4+ 3 4 5 6 +GW
== == == == == == === ===
iTKP: 10 ! 22 17 14 10 7 5 34 29
15 ! 33 25 21 15 11 8 51 43
[B][COLOR="Red"]20[/COLOR][/B] ! 44 33 28 20 15 11 [COLOR="red"][B]68[/B][/COLOR] 58
[COLOR="red"][B]30[/B][/COLOR] ! 67 51 42 30 22 17 102 [B][COLOR="Red"]87[/COLOR][/B]
40 ! 88 68 56 40 30 23 136 116
iTKP = iTechKnownPercent
10 = Peter, (Pericles)
15 = Willy
[COLOR="red"][B]20 = Gandhi[/B][/COLOR], (Asoka, Cathy, Gil, Wang)
[B][COLOR="red"]30 = Alex, Church, Darius, Fred, Hatty[/COLOR][/B]
40 = Joao, Mehmed, Sal
50 = Mao
80 = Stalin :(
Possible unit strengths:
4 = chariot
5 = war chariot, axe
6 = vulture
Strongest unit only affects techs with military units.Mitchum
Deity
Not giving up. Just stating facts.
I just moved the warrior and he sees: 1 warrior in Hamburg, 1 warrior at Hamburg-SW+SW.... and a worker on the sheep.
LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
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Gandhi is the only AI we know who can trade Masonry before GLH or GW is done.
Mitchum
Deity
Hmm... the worker is standing at CWB-NE on his way to the cow. Now that we might steal a worker, I'm thinking about just having him stay where he is and do a partial chop on the forest I wanted to chop anyway. The other option is to move him to the cows and then either move him back if the worker steal is on or have him pasture if the worker steal is off. Thoughts?
LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 23,756
Not looking at the map, but is roading also a sensible option?
Mitchum
Deity
excellent adjustment. That would spawnbust. Worker steal is on!
Mitchum
Deity
Maybe building a road is the best move. If the worker finishes that road next turn while spawn busting, we'll be able to get back to that forest and chop without wasting a full turn to movement later.
We'll have to see where Fred moves his warrior IBT to know if we're safe or not...
hmmm... or do we wait 1 turn to see if the warrior moves south?
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