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SGOTM 23 - Unallocated

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Apr 30, 2016.

  1. haphazard1

    haphazard1 Dancing Bear

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    They do add a chunk of beakers/turn, especially once we deplete our existing cash and have to switch to binary research. We may be able to raise cash via tech sales once we finish Currency; I will check what deals are available at that point, and pause to consult with the team if there are good possibilities.
     
  2. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    We will soon need to consider how to beeline Gunpowder for Musketeers.

    After Construction, I suggest we research Theology which opens up Paper and Education bulbs via GSs. Then we need only to research Gunpowder.

    We can single GS bulb Paper and double GS bulb Education, but that requires continuing to work Scientists. We may want to get our 2nd GS from another city and the third one from Paris.
     
  3. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    If reasonable, we could capture The Great Library. That should make generating more GSs easier.
     
  4. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Haphazard, your PPP looks good. We should try to work scientists in two cities simultaneously, off and on as needed to get 8+ Horse Archers. We should aim for 6 Catapults. Remember that we only have Barracks, so we will have at most CR1 Catapults, about half of which will die in their first attack, after we remove Walls defense.

    I like ikotomi's Support City Revolt and 1-2t of Espionage slider, but just 1 Spy might be risky. We should aim for 3-4 Spies in Paris, because we will lose Spies just waiting in Paris and may lose 1-2 just trying to support a city revolt.
     
  5. ikotomi

    ikotomi Prince

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    If we get Hatty friendly fast enough, she'll probably get Theo before us.
     
  6. haphazard1

    haphazard1 Dancing Bear

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    More scientists in a second city is a possibility, but as with Paris running them will slow our production and thus the military build up. Is this worth doing?

    Spies also will require diverting hammers from military units. Is it worth losing several HAs/catapults worth of hammers to produce those spies?

    Hatty is not an easy target for us, at least not without clearing the way by conquering Alex (or possibly Joao) first to get a port city on the Med. A bit longer term project for after we grab a few cities closer to our core, maybe?

    To get to Theo we will need some religious techs. Hopefully we will be able to get at least some of them via trade, but right now they are not available.
     
  7. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    We need a plan to reduce Berlin's wall defense quickly. If we don't use Spies, we will need to use Catapults which will only reduce 50% wall defense by 4% per Catapult per turn. With 6 Catapults, we will need 2t just to reduce Walls defense to close to zero, plus a third turn with Catapults barraging and Horse Archers attacking.

    Fredrick will probably add more defenders in those two extra turns.

    Alternatively, we build one Spy for maybe 70% overall chance at a Support City Revolt mission, but if it fails we may never be able to use the Espionage we built up for that Support City Revolt mission.
     
  8. haphazard1

    haphazard1 Dancing Bear

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    The catapults are slower, but they are useful for the attack as well. And those that survive will be available to reduce defenses at the next target as well. But one spy is not too expensive and is worth a try. I will build one early so we have it available. When should we move it in?

    Also, do we want to consider a state religion? We are starting to near happy caps, but switching is expensive and not all cities would benefit. Plus diplo effects.
     
  9. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    I would hold off on switching to Christianity until we can adopt Organized Religion and thus easily built missionaries. When we switch to Christianity, we want all our cities to benefit ASAP.

    Whip the unhappy citizens for now.
     
  10. haphazard1

    haphazard1 Dancing Bear

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    I agree that it is not yet worth switching to Christiantity, unless we want to do so purely for the diplomatic effects. So for now we can stay no state religion.

    Any other somments/suggestions? Packers5280 and Sun Tzu Wu have OK'd the plan, ikotomi did not oppose (although not really an OK either?), others not heard from. Not sure if this is enough to proceed, but I do not want to hold up the game either.
     
  11. marbe166

    marbe166 Chieftain

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    Plan sounds good to me too, just a comment that HBR is not a monopoly tech for us, we traded it to Hatty for Alphabet.
     
  12. haphazard1

    haphazard1 Dancing Bear

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    Thanks for the correction, marbe166; you are correct of course. I should have put HBR in the "near monopoly" list of techs known only to us and Hatty. :hammer2:

    Her tech pace is rather worrying. :( Pyramids for Representation plus the Great Library is giving her a big edge right now, and the periodic bulbs from the GS she gets will boost her further. This could help us if we can manage to keep up enough to trade techs with her -- increasing the overall tech pace is good for us since we need to go all the way to Railroad. But if she gets too big of a lead where she pulls away and we can not trade/keep up, things could get ugly.
     
  13. ikotomi

    ikotomi Prince

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    Go for it.
     
  14. Packers5280

    Packers5280 Deity

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    I think we should vassalise her, taking the city/cities with TGL and the 'mids. If she gets too far, we may be able to overwhelm her with numbers. She would make an excellent vassal, although she will lose her considerable tech rate should she lose the two wonders.
     
  15. haphazard1

    haphazard1 Dancing Bear

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    OK, with ikotomi adding support it looks like the plan is acceptable to everyone who has posted. I will aim to play during the day tomorrow, maybe 12-14 hours from now. (Too tired right now to think clearly and play carefully.)
     
  16. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Good luck haphazard!
     
  17. haphazard1

    haphazard1 Dancing Bear

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    Played an initial chunk of 5 turns, pausing to get feedback from the team. Horse archers are accumulating, and we have a spy built. (He is staying in home territory for now, not sure when the best time to move him to Germany will be.)

    We have finished Currency. :) It provided a nice boost, taking max research from 64 bpt to 74 bpt. I traded for Iron Working with Churchill, since we could get it for old stuff widely known (Writing, Agriculture, Monotheism). Sadly we do not have any iron, although there is some next door in Germany that we should be able to acquire in the future. Frederick is even being nice enough to mine and road it for us. :D

    Stalin is displaying the red fist, and our peace agreement expired so we could very well be his target. He has chariots and I saw a sword as well, so he is amassing forces. Fortunately so are we, so hopefully we will be strong enough to keep him from declaring on us. Maybe there is an easier target he will go after?

    Alexander has gems available for trade, and we do have a spare furs. The happiness would help with three of our cities, but Alex is disliked by Hatshepsut so there could be diplomatic consequences to trading with him. What does everyone think? I think it is worth doing, as the extra happy face would help a lot with managing whip unhappiness as we produce our army.

    Polytheism is available form multiple AIs, but it would require giving up something much more expensive and no one has much spare cash to balance a deal right now. Hopefully we can get it later as part of a deal, or we could put one turn of research at a low rate into Polytheism and then trade something cheap for it. I don't think it is worth delaying Construction to do so; better to wait and pick it up later if we can.

    Mao built the Great Lighthouse, no idea how much benfit it will be to him.

    Let me know what you think. After feedback I can play another 5 turns or so to finish the set, or maybe to the completion of Construction so the next player can start our catapult build up.

    Save is uploaded for examination. Log:

    Spoiler :

    Here is your Session Turn Log from 925 BC to 800 BC:

    Turn 78, 925 BC: You have trained a Horse Archer in Paris. Work has now begun on a Horse Archer.
    Turn 78, 925 BC: Mao Zedong has completed The Great Lighthouse!

    Turn 79, 900 BC: You have discovered Iron Working!

    Turn 80, 875 BC: Churchill adopts Organized Religion!

    Turn 81, 850 BC: Copper City will become unhappy on the next turn.
    Turn 81, 850 BC: Copper City can hurry Horse Archer for 1⇴ with 36ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
    Turn 81, 850 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Paris.
    Turn 81, 850 BC: Copper City will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
    Turn 81, 850 BC: Double Fish will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
    Turn 81, 850 BC: You have trained a Horse Archer in Double Fish. Work has now begun on a Library.

    Turn 82, 825 BC: Paris will become unhappy on the next turn.
    Turn 82, 825 BC: Copper City has grown to size 7.
    Turn 82, 825 BC: Copper City has become unhappy.
    Turn 82, 825 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 24 ℤ for Paris.
    Turn 82, 825 BC: Paris will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
    Turn 82, 825 BC: Double Fish will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
    Turn 82, 825 BC: You have discovered Currency!

    Turn 83, 800 BC: Paris has grown to size 8.
    Turn 83, 800 BC: Paris has become unhappy.
    Turn 83, 800 BC: Paris can hurry Horse Archer for 1⇴ with 29ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
    Turn 83, 800 BC: Copper City can hurry Horse Archer for 2⇴ with 38ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
    Turn 83, 800 BC: Double Fish has grown to size 4.
    Turn 83, 800 BC: Double Fish can hurry Horse Archer for 1⇴ with 5ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 28 turns.
    Turn 83, 800 BC: Churchill has 80 gold available for trade.
    Turn 83, 800 BC: Hatshepsut has 70 gold available for trade.
    Turn 83, 800 BC: Mehmed II will trade Polytheism
    Turn 83, 800 BC: Saladin will trade Polytheism
    Turn 83, 800 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Polytheism
    Turn 83, 800 BC: Alexander will trade Gems
     
  18. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    The Gems for Fur trade with Alexander sounds fine despite minor diplomatic ramifications with Hatshepsut. I suspect Hatshepsut will become our future vassal anyway.

    Plan to wipe out the German Empire seems to be going well. I will be nice to get Iron from the German spoils of war.

    After we complete Construction, let's reconsider how to get Polytheism.
     
  19. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Let's keep two cities working on generating Great Scientists; with 3 GS, we can bulb Paper, and Education (need to avoid CoL until after these bulbs; we need to trade for Aesthetics prior to the bulbs too); We need to get to Gunpowder ASAP within reason to unlock Musketeers. It will also be nice to Liberalize Nationalism, so we can draft a large stack of Musketeers and wipe out several nearby civilizations, including Russia and vassalizing Hatshepsut (assuming HA and Catapults aren't enough).
     
  20. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    We should also improve our Espionage economy. Maybe go for Constitution, so we can built Jails. After bulbing Education, we can trade for Code of Laws, and build Courthouses for the Spy specialist slot. With three spy specialist slots we be able to generate a lot of non-slider espionage and maybe spawn a few Great Spies. Running Nationhood would be good too. We want to be able to run Support City Revolt missions, so our Musketeers have an easier time taking out cities with 60% culture or hill citirs with 40% culture.
     

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