[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

[Kaitzilla]

Kait, what is your plan for playing? Are you planning to have a PPP up today and play tomorrow? The reason I ask is that weekends are out for me (especially Labor Day weekend) so depending on how long your turnset takes, I may have to swap with WT and play on Monday.

I think the game almost plays itself as I mentioned before. Once we've agreed on the final tech path (which I think we have), and any final builds in any of the cities, the rest of the game is about harassing HRE, assigning the correct specialists, building relations to Pleased, etc. I think MG got us over the hump and it's largely downhill from here.

I need a few days to write everything out.
Probably start playing Saturday night.

 

[Mitchum]

Sounds good. No major rush.

To WT's point, we should plan every build in every city. Payback should be 30 turns or less if it's a non-mandatory building, right? If not building one of those things, build for fail gold, Research or Wealth.

We should also agree on the tech path although I assume it's already decided.

 

[Mitchum]

I don't think the PPP has to be as detailed as you normally provide, I don't think. Builds in each city with a suggested priority for citizens (i.e. scientists, merchants, hammer tiles, etc.) is probably fine. No need to track every citizen in every city, is there?

 

[WastinTime]

Yeah, I don't think we need the exact MM, just list all buildings left and see if the city needs a workshop or ice-mine urgently or not at all. I don't think you even need much detail in the worker plan.

And when you're counting hammers for, let's say WestPoint, don't forget the 2 chops and possibly some fringe chops. But that's probably not for this turnset.
Maybe Silver can get something from the forests to the east? It'd be nice if that city didn't have to work an engineer or the fur or both, but I'm pretty sure it does.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Looks like there are 2 opportunities for fail from AI right now.

Saladin is the most interesting.
He can't build Taj, Sistene, or Notre Dame.

He has 151 in his bureau capital Mecca. (+50%)
He also has +25% from Forge.

There are a few things it could be.
Hagia Sophia (550)
Moai (250)
Heroic Epic (200)
National Epic (250)

Once Mecca goes over 250, I think we can instantly conclude it must be Hagia.
With 7 cities he can't build Forbidden Palace. He needs an 8th.
Potentially lots of forests to chop.

Spoiler :

A bit less interesting is Louis.
He has 161 in his bureau capital Paris. (+50%)
He also gets +50% for wonders and +25% for Org. Religion and +25% for Forge.
He already has Hermitage(300) built in Tours, so he is no slouch.

Spoiler :

He can't build Notre Dame.

There are plenty of things it could be.
Taj
Sistene
Hagia
Moai Statues
Heroic Epic (did he get a great general yet?)
National Epic
Bank?
Cathedral? Doesn't have 3 temples

Anyway, Louis is a Wonder building machine due to being Industrious.
Once he goes over 250, it would indicate Taj/Sistene/Hagia I think.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I don't think the PPP has to be as detailed as you normally provide, I don't think. Builds in each city with a suggested priority for citizens (i.e. scientists, merchants, hammer tiles, etc.) is probably fine. No need to track every citizen in every city, is there?

Ya, the city and worker micro will be less detailed.

Just need to estimate when we are going to be done teching.
It will affect a lot of things.
Might need to set up a overflow in Clam City for UN if we are going above 1400 per turn after Mass Media.

Also need to figure out how to plug our budgetary black hole so we can keep slider at 100%.

I doubt it, but I think the next PPP should show include the builds left in the game.

Ya, this one of my top 3 concerns.
I'll put all the required buildings in the PPP and estimate their end date if chops are included.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I was trying to build windmill. WIth electricity, windmill is nearly as good as tundra uranium mine; after rep-parts it will be slightly better.

That's a good idea.
We can't trade uranium until Fission, so a mine is not automatically best.

Yes, a windmill on the uranium sounds good.

before we get too many units in HRE land. Should we Cease Fire and get his 80 gold (carefully, without triggering -diplo) Like maybe sell map. Or just demand money?
Then re-DoW of course.

We are at +3 shared war with all 3 AI, so a Cease Fire should only reset us back to +2 I think.
Re-dow gets us back to +3 and then 8 turns later +4 for AI like Bismarck.

Selling map should work I think.
Not too much trading with worst enemies since our map is worth around 200?

The only downside is teleporting our 3 troops and delays Bismarck's Friendly status until T192 when we get +2 Open Borders and +1 Resource (actually earlier now that we are trading 4 resources)

It should be a free 80 for us that only delays Replaceable Parts by 2 turns.

Oh, wow, I didn't realize you managed to get the 5 and the wheat deals done. Now I'm even more surprised at our expenses. Where is it all coming from so recently?

ah, good idea. But IronWorks has a long way to go. Maybe uranium and workshop is needed first. Let's see...

198 Mass Media
207 Assemblyline (start factory, so IronWorks goal is to be done in 25 turns? or maybe it's ok to start a factory later.)
223 SuperConductors

Mirrorguard got that 5 for Wheat with authority!
Even if the one near the war front gets pillaged, I'm pretty sure Bismarck loses wheat and not us.

Yes, our budget is a black hole.
The cities all need to build things instead of Wealth, and as they grow larger the sushi and civic maintenance does too.
Inflation also seems to be increasing.

I suggest we sell Louis Astronomy, maybe Sal too (sell him Compass for 30 rt now) so they settle it and maybe settle the oil island (which could still have an actual fish?) and the whale island.

We can sell Astro to Louis and Compass to Sal sure.
I'm pretty sure Saladin and his Hindu Apostolic Palace can't screw us with a Religious Victory until he can spread Hindu to Holy Roman Empire, us, Peter, and Sitting Bull.
Should be safe to let Saladin get Caravels and Galleons.

 

[Kaitzilla]

T182 Real Game Screenshots!

Science City

Spoiler :

Cow City

Spoiler :

Canal City

Spoiler :

Clam City

Spoiler :

Profit City

Spoiler :

Silver City

Spoiler :

Whale City

Spoiler :

Holy Roman Empire

Spoiler :

Extra

Spoiler :

Ugh, 30% Inflation is costing us 65 per turn.
I think it's the inflation that is killing us.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Updating old post to T182!
.....

Notes:

1. Don't forget to revolt to our state religion before the end of the game.

This is a good reminder post.
It highlights our path to victory based on the game requirements.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-26-pre-game-announcement-ii.657202/

Some maintain that the faith was not always like this and along the way something has been mangled or lost but you dismiss that as an old wives tale.

The text tells you that to end Winter you must build 7 cities, each a tribute to one face of god, each city must have a Temple of your state religion and also certain other buildings. You will need to put your best minds to work to establish how to create these buildings.

Prophet- Dun, Temple, Monastery, Cathedral, Moai Statues, Great Wonder generating Great Prophet points

Merchant - Dun, Temple, Market, Bank, Wall Street, Great Wonder generating Great Merchant points

Artist - Dun, Temple, Theatre, Broadcast Tower, Globe Theatre, Great Wonder generating Great Artist points

Scientist - Dun, Temple, Library, Lab, Oxford University, Great Wonder generating Great Scientist points

General- Dun, Temple, Barracks, Drydock, Heroic Epic, Corporation HQ

Engineer - Dun, Temple, Forge, Industrial Park, Ironworks, Great Wonder generating Great Engineer points

Spy - Dun, Temple, Courthouse, Intelligence Agency, West Point, Great Wonder generating Great Spy points

You may construct other buildings in each city, as well as the requirements noted above, provided you only build exactly 6 Great Wonders and found exactly 1 Corporation.

You do NOT need to generate the appropriate great person just build the right Wonders in each city.

You must be running a State Religion when you win the game, but it is up to you which one you use however you must have temples of that religion in each city as well as the cathedral in the Prophet city.

(Cathedral is used in the generic sense it does not have to be a Christian Cathedral e.g. the Stupa is defined in-game as "the Buddhist Cathedral").

Profit (Prophet City)
Dun - Got it
Temple (80)- Got it
Monastery - Got it
Cathedral (300 requires Temple)- Need it still
Moai Statues - Got it
Great Wonder generating Great Prophet points - Got it (Oracle)

Merchant (Clam City)
Dun - Got it
Temple (80) - Got it
Market (150)- Got it
Bank (200)- Got it
Wall Street (66/600)- Need it still
UN (1000) Great Wonder generating Great Merchant points - Need it still

Artist (Whale City)
Dun - Got it
Temple (80)- Got it
Theatre (50)- Need it still
Broadcast Tower (175) - Need it still
Globe Theatre (300 requires Theatre)- Need it still
Great Wonder generating Great Artist points - Got it (Parthenon)

Scientist (Science City)
Dun - Got it
Temple - Got it
Library - Got it
Observatory (150) - Got it
Lab (250 requires Observatory)- Need it still (chop complete on the turn of UN diplo win vote right?)
Oxford University - Got it
Great Wonder generating Great Scientist points - Got it (University of Sankore)

General (Silver City)
Dun (50 double with stone) - Need it still
Temple (80)- Got it
Barracks (50 double with Agressive Civ) - Got it
Drydock (120 double with Aggressive Civ)- Need it still
Heroic Epic (199/200)- Need it still, but almost done
Corporation HQ - Got it (Sushi)

Engineer (Cow City)
Dun - Got it
Temple (80)- Got it
Forge (120)- Got it
Factory (250) - Need it still
Industrial Park (200 requires Factory) - Need it still
Ironworks (30/700 requires Forge)- Need it still
Great Wonder generating Great Engineer points - Got it (Pyramids)

Spy (Canal City)
Dun - Got it
Temple (80)- Got it
Courthouse (120)- Got it
Intelligence Agency (180) - Need it still
West Point (190/800 double with stone)- Need it still (20xp unit promoted)
Great Wonder generating Great Spy points - Got it (Great Wall)

The techs we need to win the game are also fairly straightforward.

Spoiler :

Replaceable Parts 2808
Communism 4368
We will be getting these 2 in tech trades

Final Tech Order
1) Electricity 7020 (Looks like we are starting at 650/7020 due to overflow, my best estimate)
2) Radio 9360
3) Mass Media 5616
4) Steam Power 4992
5) Assembly Line 7800
6) Industrialism 10140
7) Refrigeration 6240
8) Superconductors 10140
Total: 61308

Hopefully we will get a 2nd Great Scientist bulb out of Science City next turn.
On T183, our empire population will be 90. So two 1770 bulbs hopefully.
On T184, our empire population will be 93. So two 1779 bulbs hopefully.

We can subtract 61308 - 2*1770 = 57768.
Divide by 1.2 due to having one tech prereq each, and we need 48140 RAW to finish teching and chop Lab complete.

If we can maintain 1200 RAW (the beakers indicated from 100% science slider) from now until the end, then we will have:
Mass Media - We can start UN T195
Superconductors - We can start Lab T222 and have U.N. victory screen T223.

If we can get above 1200 per turn and maintain it, then this timetable compresses.

U.N Testing previously done here:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-26-home-slices.657330/page-232#post-15866251

 

[Kaitzilla]

Holy Roman Empire

Spoiler :

Ugh, only 3 cities left.
Besides pillaging, which city do we want to try and capture first?

The city to the west Vienna is most likely to fall due to AI right now.
It probably has a lot of Arabs, a few Germans, and a couple of French beating on it.
We could ask all 3 to attack the hilltop castle Aachen (deathtrap) since we are all at war together.

Any urges to construct 1 Airship (80) for recon from a German City and dropping a tiny bomb on a defender?

 

[WastinTime]

Looks like there are 2 opportunities for fail from AI right now.

We desperately needed this analysis I was too lazy preoccupied with other game strategy. About 20 turns ago would have been even better. We really dropped the ball on failgold lately. So many wonders completed.

We can't trade uranium until Fission

Are you sure?

It should be a free 80 for us that only delays Replaceable Parts by 2 turns.

We don't need RP that soon anyway. I'm still a little scared to trade a 200g map with HRE

Hopefully we will get a 2nd Great Scientist bulb out of Science City next turn.

Could there be another GP late game?

We could ask all 3 to attack the hilltop castle Aachen (deathtrap) since we are all at war together.

seems like a good ask.
It will take a while for them to bombard, so that might buy us some time to pillage.
we need to try to get the conquer gold on the other city and then Aachen later.
No airship.

Superconductors - We can start Lab T222 and have victory screen T223.

My estimate of 222 included an acceleration to 1400 or 1500bpt, but I did not include the 2 bulbs. I shoulda included the one we have for sure. Maybe we can do T220 or better, but money is the key.

 

[MirrorGuard]

Any urges to construct 1 Airship (80) for recon from a German City and dropping a tiny bomb on a defender?

I have a crazy idea. We pay iron in full cash and do strike economy for a few turns. Our cities can run all scientists and engineers and no coast no merchant since they are very near to happiness and health cap. We will have a few privateers from cows/whales to help Peter for better population control and siege 3 canon from science.

 

[MirrorGuard]

Are you sure?

Yes. I tested it when oils are revealed. Oil requires combustion and uranium requires fission(no such thing as crude oil or uranium trade)

 

[Kaitzilla]

I have a crazy idea. We pay iron in full cash and do strike economy for a few turns. Our cities can run all scientists and engineers and no coast no merchant since they are very near to happiness and health cap. We will have a few privateers from cows/whales to help Peter for better population control and siege 3 canon from science.

Peter isn't offering any more seafood than the 4 clams we are currently getting for some reason.
If Sushi could go a lot bigger, I'd definitely try it, but I'm not sure if we can get any benefit at 12 on Emperor.

What if we went for STRIKE scientist+build Research right now?
Then complete Heroic Epic to turn off the STRIKE whenever we want.

Mmm, I think our empire is too small to make Strike Economy shine.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Here are the results of the T182 Test Game chopping test and teleport test.

Our 2 muskets are good to pillage HRE and then Cease Fire.
This will teleport both muskets and chariot to nearby German Prague.
The 2 Muskets can then either head to the Village 1W of Aachen or try to approach Vienna if the AI is attacking the city.
Always nice to ninja a city after the AI does all the hard work and dying.

The Chariot can then roam southwest and pillage any easy HRE tiles and eventually check up on 2N2W of Vienna to peer across the lake.
Charlemagne does not have Engineering, so it should be relatively safe.

Spoiler :

Our Galleon needs to move 1N1E before the Cease Fire so it will teleport east instead of west.

Spoiler :

The chopping test indicates the northern island has a nice little 6 chop for Canal if we ever want to go up there and get it.

Science City expands in 10 turns, so on T192 we can get a nice +14 chop in the north.

Cow City expands in 23 turns, so on T205 we can get three +14 chops in the northern wilderness above Cow City.
There are also plenty of +6 chops up there for when our workers run out of things to do.

Silver City only has two +9 chops and a +6 chop in the wilderness.
It pops borders in 40 turns, so no use waiting on the 9's to turn into 14's.

Spoiler :

 

[Mitchum]

I'm worried about trying to get any gold from HRE. We can't afford a negative diplo hit for trading with the enemy.

 

[Kaitzilla]

So, the -123 per turn deficit.
It is the main thing keeping us from doing 100% slider for the final 38 turns.

Spoiler :

-123 per turn is the deficit even while the capital builds +31 per turn, Silver City is working 5 Merchants, and Clam City is working 3 Merchants.
How do we plug it?

I don't really want to do something outrageous like Bank in Science City and then work all Merchants in our capital.

1 extra Sushi spread only gets us +8 per turn and costs us plenty in the short term.

Putting into Hagia might not pay out for a while.
Putting into Hermitage and completing it somewhere isn't much better than Wealth unless we build it almost complete in multiple cities.
Putting into West Point is a thought, but Canal City will take a while to complete it.

I'm worried about trying to get any gold from HRE. We can't afford a negative diplo hit for trading with the enemy.

I'm 99% sure trading our map to HRE for 80 won't give too severe a hit.
I'm thinking -1 diplo max, and it should fade as the next 40 turns shrink its effect.

Remember we had -1 "traded with our Worst Enemy" diplo after meeting the new AI for a few turns, but it later wore off as the number of turns we knew the AI shrank the effect.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sgotm-26-home-slices.657330/page-200#post-15843707

We only need +8 relations to get a UN diplo victory vote as long as the AI does not like Peter (our UN opponent) more than us.


We will gain +865 when we finish Heroic Epic in Silver City this turn, but that's it.
When that money runs out we are really broke!

 

[Kaitzilla]

We desperately needed this analysis I was too lazy preoccupied with other game strategy. About 20 turns ago would have been even better. We really dropped the ball on failgold lately. So many wonders completed.

Are you sure?

We don't need RP that soon anyway. I'm still a little scared to trade a 200g map with HRE

Could there be another GP late game?

seems like a good ask.
It will take a while for them to bombard, so that might buy us some time to pillage.
we need to try to get the conquer gold on the other city and then Aachen later.
No airship.

My estimate of 222 included an acceleration to 1400 or 1500bpt, but I did not include the 2 bulbs. I shoulda included the one we have for sure. Maybe we can do T220 or better, but money is the key.

I'm sure we can't trade Uranium.

Trading just our map with HRE who is worst enemy of Bismarck, Saladin, and Louis should be ok.
We will have plenty of diplo cushion for UN vote thanks to shared war +Diplo and free religion.

We will get another Great Person (1800gpp) from Science City in around 21 turns I think.

Maybe we should consider the bank + max merchants in capital idea.
A Great Merchant on T203 would be delicious.
Another Great Scientist would not help much.

 

[WastinTime]

Silver City only has two +9 chops and a +6 chop in the wilderness.
It pops borders in 40 turns, so no use waiting on the 9's to turn into 14's.

but it will get more culture from HE. But then again, we might drop 2 seafood and lose culture.

Selling map should work I think.
Not too much trading with worst enemies since our map is worth around 200?

Didn't we already sell him our map? So isn't it only worth the newly defogged tiles? like 10g? 20g?
I'd say if we thought the teleports were really a nice thing, we could consider this, but if there's no value there, let's skip the cease fire for now.

Putting into West Point is a thought, but Canal City will take a while to complete it.

Chopping earlier than the 'vote turn' means -1 happy and -1 food. But maybe that's ok tho. Canal will have spare happy and we can manage -1 food for a few turns.
Science could do 4 turns of WP while Canal does Observ. We can make sure we cash it out.
Canal can work 9 merchants and 1 engineer right now since it doesn't have an observatory yet. Canal is at its health cap, so let's halt growth.
Actually, 2 workers have orders to preserve at Canal. Cancel those. It cannot even cause regrow. It's useless.

 

[WastinTime]

so that's 200g for WestPoint (above) and 865 HE. = 1065g failgold

Let's say we can get 100g every 10t from each new world AI. That's 50g for a tech every 5 turns. (1200g)

Let's say 200g every 10t from Peter (800g)

Let's say we manage 400g with HRE for razes + pillage

That's 3465.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Meaning we can burn about -90gpt

With those 9 merch in Canal and 6 in Silver this turn, wealth in Science and Profit, we are at only -70gpt.
It could be -64gpt if we do 7 merch (and zero engineer) in Silver

And only -61gpt if we sh**can the observatory in Silver.

So I think we can afford to do WestPoint in Science. And probably the Aqueduct in Profit. 100g for aqueduct. It will provide ~70 supporting +1 pop. So 1 extra Scientist would do +11:science/turn for the final 30 turns (330)