[BTS] SGOTM 26 - The Indecisive

[Folket]

Seems doable. But forgot that you can't have more then 30 overflow hammers from wb. it will be 30 overflow hammers turning into something smaller and 3 gold. I'm also confused that you expect 13 hammers this turn but 11 next turn.

If you unload the Galleon in 5W you should be able to use the worker to chop on turn 159. But if we do not need chops maybe we should just save forests in case Germany builds it and we need the Taj Mahal.

Technically we finish MoM at the end of our turn 160.

Either way I think getting out MoM in three turn is a good plan. Now on to what else will happen during the next 10 turns.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Seems doable. But forgot that you can't have more then 30 overflow hammers from wb. it will be 30 overflow hammers turning into something smaller and 3 gold. I'm also confused that you expect 13 hammers this turn but 11 next turn.

I made a typo in the first post, 13 is production, while 11 is base production. so you get 13 in the wb this turn (11*1.25 rounded down) but 11*1.50 next turn into MoM (factoring in the forge and OR).

I tested the overflow math on wb and it's correct. Then I think there aren't mistakes left

If you unload the Galleon in 5W you should be able to use the worker to chop on turn 159. But if we do not need chops maybe we should just save forests in case Germany builds it and we need the Taj Mahal.

Oh good point! it's a galley but it works indeed. I'll do the math again to see if we can't shave a pop point with a chop (probably).

Technically we finish MoM at the end of our turn 160.

Either way I think getting out MoM in three turn is a good plan. Now on to what else will happen during the next 10 turns.

I am working on a PPP, will have it posted within the next couple of hours. it takes time to catch up lol

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Oh good point! it's a galley but it works indeed. I'll do the math again to see if we can't shave a pop point with a chop (probably).

Actually it saves 2 pop, since a one pop whip will be enough if we double chop turn 159. back on ppp

 

[Folket]

I forgot. Bismark is industrious is he not? Berlin will have closer to 50 hammers.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

He is...

 

[Folket]

Unless you can make a plan for finishing the MoM in 2 turns I guess we could wait and see what wonder he builds.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

note that Sal and Louis both lack furs, so plan to road ours in BB; also plan to whip workboat into MoM in 6R to net whales for trade

OK will do. More on workers below

Note that we could tech Fascism, get a free GG, and avoid going to war.

Sounds about right. Better than a war imo considering our prod and the impact it would have on tech rate.

How do we get the French friendly enough to trade us iron?

As said we give in on demands. I need to check how zealous he is to see if dropping religion during a GA is worth it (cost 2 GPs iirc)
-------

Techs:
SM (5 turns) into lib (1 turn), grabbing bilogy.
then what? Corp, Radio, supraconductors? (and prerequesits) (to be discussed)

Builds:
Bibracte: AW to one turn then starts on Notre Dame? We could use an aqueduc once bioglogy is in, and we still need a temple here.
BB: finish the observatory
TC: research, market, or chistian missionary (we still lack one provided the other 2 succeeds)? We can finish the dun later.
6R: see MoM
CC: switch to christian monastary (takes one turn and give +10%, better than 25% in 7 turns), then resume uni. Still lacks its cathedral (but can wait)
5W: continue chicken pizza. I guess the temple and dun are there to be whipped into the Kremlin?
IT: research or resume temple? We can produce another jewish missionary there too.

Small update needed: why did we choose Kremlin and the Eiffel Tower? (or link me to the discussion)

Units:
Workers 3 & 7 chop the MoM, we can then link up the silver west of 6R
Worker 2: road and hook up more furs
worker 4 & 5: prechopping duty?
worker 1: keeps on farming Bibracte (biology)
worker 6:farm or prechop around TC?

jewish missionary: Yaroslav? or Yakutsk (closer but already Christian)?
Christian missionaries: Basra and Mesa Verde (smallest cities)
Tao? no idea where he is heading rn. Must reread the last few pages...

tell me, I might be totally off on this since I have few history.

Trades & diplo:
Give in what Louis wants (he is in WHEOOHRN, target?)
sell non monopoly techs.

GP: What's the strat? Bulb and get cash for merchant? Save 3 for a couple of GAs (I see we chose the MoM when the Parth was available for instance)

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Unless you can make a plan for finishing the MoM in 2 turns I guess we could wait and see what wonder he builds.

That's a no Sir. We can't chop a third forest next turn. How do you see the hammers invested by Bis?

 

[Folket]

You can calculate it from
Hammers = (Sabotage Production / City Revolt) * (650/6)
in the espionage screen.

 

[Folket]

I'm certain Louis will attack Arabia. Arabia is likely to surrender to HRE once HRE gets feudalism.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Are the forests west of 6R chopped to 1 turn?

Yes, they are.

Suggest you don't give up on a three-turn MoM until we have played the in-between-turn and seen how many more hammers Berlin puts into wonder, then calculate when he will finish if that rate continues.

Been gone all day, but will comment on rest of plan ASAP.

 

[Cactus Pete]

As said we give in on demands. I need to check how zealous he is to see if dropping religion during a GA is worth it (cost 2 GPs iirc) Would you explain this cost.
-------

Techs:
SM (5 turns) into lib (1 turn), grabbing bilogy.
then what? Corp, Radio, supraconductors? (and prerequesits) (to be discussed) Yes, perhaps a pause after Bio.

Builds:
Bibracte: AW to one turn then starts on Notre Dame? Other than Bis, no other AI seems tp be building wonders regularly. Can we be confident ND will get built in a timely manner? We could use an aqueduc once bioglogy is in, and we still need a temple here.
BB: finish the observatory
TC: research, market [Folket argues that we will be at 100% research nearly all the time, so a market won't pay.], or chistian missionary (we still lack one provided the other 2 succeeds)? We can finish the dun later. Yes, dun is to be pre-built to whip into required high-hammer buildings.
6R: see MoM
CC: switch to christian monastary (takes one turn and give +10%, better than 25% in 7 turns),[We do need one eventually, but thought SM obsoleted monasteries. Do we need to build it before it obsoletes?] then resume uni. Still lacks its cathedral (but can wait)
5W: continue chicken pizza. I guess the temple and dun are there to be whipped into the Kremlin? Yes, and an intelligence agency is also required.
IT: research or resume temple? We can produce another jewish missionary there too.

Small update needed: why did we choose Kremlin and the Eiffel Tower? (or link me to the discussion) Kremlin cheaper than the pentagon; ET easier than MM.

Units:
Workers 3 & 7 chop the MoM, When we are confident we will complete it. we can then link up the silver west of 6R
Worker 2: road and hook up more furs
worker 4 & 5: prechopping duty?
worker 1: keeps on farming Bibracte (biology)
worker 6:farm or prechop around TC? That's been done.
There are two forests in BB that could be chopped and farmed, but should we hold them to chop into required high-hammer buildings?

jewish missionary: Yaroslav? or Yakutsk (closer but already Christian)? No clue here.
Christian missionaries: Basra and Mesa Verde (smallest cities) Why would these be useful?
Tao? no idea where he is heading rn. Must reread the last few pages... He's headed for Cologne to convert it and thereby mitigate Christianity being spread there.

tell me, I might be totally off on this since I have few history.

Trades & diplo:
Give in what Louis wants (he is in WHEOOHRN, target?) Arabia would seem most likely.
sell non monopoly techs.

GP: What's the strat? Bulb and get cash for merchant? Save 3 for a couple of GAs (I see we chose the MoM when the Parth was available for instance)

We will also need a GP for Corporation.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

@Cactus Pete:

GA: You started one already so next one costs 2 GPs?
I agree about playing one more turn then checking Berlin's build advance.
Notre Dame: I suggested it because we do have stone so we will get 2 gold per hammers. And AIs seem to like it. What would you do instead?
Good point about the market.
Monastery in CC: Yes, we do, so we MUST build the jewish one within 5 turns. Not for the science bonus though (I was )...

Workers6: hum no, I am speaking about the jungle plain. not chopping forests indeed if they are all prechopped.
Forests around BB. We can prefarm them to one turn (will get us to +6 food with these), and finish them when we need the hammers from the chops.

Christian missionaries: well maybe I need to check how the vote system works, but I was under the impression we needed all AIs converted to get the vote on religious leader. We want all our cities converted, friendly AIs can be converted, but the rest must not hold many votes, hence the smaller cities targeted. But could be wrong on this.
"He's headed for Cologne to convert it and thereby mitigate Christianity being spread there. " -> which German city should get Christianity then?

GP: yeah, did you discuss the corp already?


-----------------

I can't play untill tomorrow (business trip tmr and waking up in 5 hours). Maybe one of you can play t158 so we decide on MoM in the meantime.

 

[Cactus Pete]

@Cactus Pete:

GA: You started one already so next one costs 2 GPs? That's right.
I agree about playing one more turn then checking Berlin's build advance.
Notre Dame: I suggested it because we do have stone so we will get 2 gold per hammers. And AIs seem to like it. What would you do instead? I don't have a better option and agree that AIs do seem to like it, but I don't have a feel based on experience as to how likely it will get built in time to help us. If you and folket think it will get built in a timely manner, then I'm on board. If that's problematic, then we might be better off just building science.
Good point about the market.
Monastery in CC: Yes, we do, so we MUST build the jewish one within 5 turns. Glad you caught that. Not for the science bonus though (I was )...Right.

Workers6: hum no, I am speaking about the jungle plain. not chopping forests indeed if they are all prechopped.
Forests around BB. We can prefarm them to one turn (will get us to +6 food with these), and finish them when we need the hammers from the chops. We may need the farms before the hammers, but don't see how just pre-farming now could hurt.

Christian missionaries: well maybe I need to check how the vote system works, but I was under the impression we needed all AIs converted to get the vote on religious leader. Folket has been educating me on the AP, and my newly-formed impression is the same as yours. We want all our cities converted [or enough of them to win a vote], friendly AIs can be converted, but the rest must not hold many votes, hence the smaller cities targeted. But could be wrong on this. Think that's correct.
"He's headed for Cologne to convert it and thereby mitigate Christianity being spread there. " -> which German city should get Christianity then? I am but a humble student.

GP: yeah, did you discuss the corp already? No, thinking we'd wait to see what options are available.


-----------------

I can't play untill tomorrow (business trip tmr and waking up in 5 hours). Maybe one of you can play t158 so we decide on MoM in the meantime.

Rather folket do that.

 

[Folket]

I have my presentation today so pretty busy. Just play a turn and if you do not want to calculate hammer yourself post cost for sabotage production and city revolt here and I will do the calculation.

Either way I guess we need to whip wb this turn so we can use hammers next turn.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Playing . . .
Switch Bib from Wat to Christian missionary (thinking we will need one more, plus a couple of back-ups) and build Wat in CC.

Before IBT:
Sabotage Production cost is 2,784
City Revolt cost is 845

After IBT (T159):
Bismarck completes Parthenon (Thinking we should complete MoM without whipping other than wkbt, but see no reason to save chopping.)
Sioux has 50 gold

FYI, now
Sabotage Production cost is now a blank space
City Revolt cost is still 845

I could play in perhaps twelve hours, but hoping someone else can take over before then.

If Louis asks us to go to war with him, do we agree?

Save posted at Central

 

[Folket]

We do not want a war with Arabia. Iron is a bonus but not needed. If Arabia looses their christian city and we can't get open border we are lost.

Parthenon. That is good. Now we can relax again.

 

[Folket]

I suggest we tech to corporation next. GM from economics is nice and extra trade route is 4 commerce in each city.I suggest we plan for a GA using great spy and great scientists. But we should delay it some to allow our cities to grow.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I suggest we tech to corporation next. GM from economics is nice and extra trade route is 4 commerce in each city.I suggest we plan for a GA using great spy and great scientists. But we should delay it some to allow our cities to grow.

Be good to get NE built first too.

Do you have any idea what Home Slices is doing with all its culture?

Gone for the next 12 hours. Anyone who decides to play, please post that you are.

I suggest we tech to corporation next. GM from economics is nice and extra trade route is 4 commerce in each city.I suggest we plan for a GA using great spy and great scientists. But we should delay it some to allow our cities to grow.

Concur, and Peter will have researched Guilds by time we complete BIO.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Got it for tonight. (In about 6 hours)