Noble Zarkon
Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)
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[BTS] SGOTM 26 - The Indecisive
- Thread starter AlanH
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Noble Zarkon
Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)
Super Moderator
Hall of Fame Staff
GOTM Staff
Supporter
This is a friendly reminder for all the teams that the deadline for your final upload will be September 30th, 2020.
Ironworks is a national wonder unlocked by steel tech.
As for settling positions, I am fine with 6W of 6R and getting stone. I'm open to other suggestions like settling on top of the ruins of Cahokia.
I feel we are loosing time as we are not focusing on our goal. We should decide on whether we want to do conquest or AP. I think we should gamble on a theology bulb. It seems like the map is very poor so techs might be late for the AI.
As for micro. No reason to build a dun when you can put hammers into a wonder. Looks strange that one worker is removing jungle and one of building a mine. Does that not loose worker turns? Let us stagnate Bibracte at size 9 for now replacing one farm with a cottage. Maybe in canal city put overflow hammers into Moai statue? But if we are getting stone we may want to delay building them as we can half build them in several cities. We have relationship bonus with Sitting Bull from resources. Take cow and sheep back and give them to Peter.
I have monitoring shift next week and I do not know what timeinvestment that is so I can come back on Monday regarding playing. If you agree to rush Judaism and whip a temple ASAP you can go ahead and play 10 more turns.
As for settling positions, I am fine with 6W of 6R and getting stone. I'm open to other suggestions like settling on top of the ruins of Cahokia.
I feel we are loosing time as we are not focusing on our goal. We should decide on whether we want to do conquest or AP. I think we should gamble on a theology bulb. It seems like the map is very poor so techs might be late for the AI.
As for micro. No reason to build a dun when you can put hammers into a wonder. Looks strange that one worker is removing jungle and one of building a mine. Does that not loose worker turns? Let us stagnate Bibracte at size 9 for now replacing one farm with a cottage. Maybe in canal city put overflow hammers into Moai statue? But if we are getting stone we may want to delay building them as we can half build them in several cities. We have relationship bonus with Sitting Bull from resources. Take cow and sheep back and give them to Peter.
I have monitoring shift next week and I do not know what timeinvestment that is so I can come back on Monday regarding playing. If you agree to rush Judaism and whip a temple ASAP you can go ahead and play 10 more turns.
Okay, I will play some more in a few hours rushing Judaism and whipping a temple. If you can respond to my comments above soon, that would be appreciated.
Trust your presentation went well.
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I'm arguing that gold is more important then building buildings. There will be a time when we do not have a wonder to dump hammers into which we can use to build any needed buildings.
The biggest reason I have for getting stone is that we will have a few forests to work in the city. Marble spot has very few hammers and it may become a challenge to build a wonder.
I never suggested you would stop mining. But working gem mine and cottage instead of two farms at size 9 would stagnate the city which was fine with me. If you think size 10 is better that works as well.
The biggest reason I have for getting stone is that we will have a few forests to work in the city. Marble spot has very few hammers and it may become a challenge to build a wonder.
I never suggested you would stop mining. But working gem mine and cottage instead of two farms at size 9 would stagnate the city which was fine with me. If you think size 10 is better that works as well.
Understood. What are your thoughts on running a scientist there?
Will be posting turn set soon.
Played ten turns to turn 86 (725 BC)
Ended cow and sheep trade with Sioux, but Russia has no use for them. Perhaps someone else will. Switched Bib to building mids.
Turn 76 (975 BC): Peter now has Alpha and wants to trade archery for IW. Not interested. He has Poly, but won’t trade it. Get gems mined (don’t believe miss-click delayed).
T77: The Great Lighthouse has been built in a far away land. Peter will now trade Priesthood. Micro-manage to get Mono next turn and guarantee Judaism. Gift Russia gems.
T78: Gain Mono, and Judaism is founded in CC. Trade Mono to Peter for Priesthood. Revolt to OR. Put research on Math at 0%.
T79: I had a problem and lost part of this turn. Thought I had saved game, but apparently not. Had to restart and go to auto save at beginning of turn 79, so had to replay T79 unit moves to point where I exited game. No problem recalling few moves made. Everything seems in order. (That is message I sent to NZ.) Convert to Judaism.
T80: Whip lighthouse in CC into temple
T81: Settle 6R West (calling it 6W for convenience)
T82: Both wkbt and chariot find dead ends at the bottom of the Sioux peninsula and have to abandon further exploration and turn back. Workboat can sail to island to eventually net whale, and chariot can trot back to homeland to await further orders and avoid supply cost.
T84: Peter will now trade Monarchy. (Peter’s willingness to trade suggests that he is in contact with other civs, as doubt Sioux have Alpha and Monarchy, and that means we should find them soon.) BB completes a galley to transport the chariot in 6R west for land exploration. BB is now building a wkbt for 6W. Worker 2 pre-chops plains hill forest 1NW TC. TC whips library into galley to eventually transport settler and a missionary (followed by a worker or two and a warrior) to the island.
T85: Worker 4 pre-chops tundra forest hill 1S1SE of CC. CC whips temple into missionary (suggest that he be whipped soon and sent to Bib to convert that city and that converted city in turn builds one missionary to immediately accompany settler to island city and then at least one more to begin spreading religion and OR advantage.). 6R whips lighthouse into warrior and library.
Notes:
The silver hill being mined for 6W has been partially roaded. Silver (and furs) may prove useful for trade. Other civs look to be in mid-latitudes so fur may be widely desired.
Worker 1 east of Bib can move to cottage the farm north of Bib.
Unless we want the mids in Bib -- and I would advocate that Bib is better suited to be the Science (or arguably the Merchant) city -- then suggest we switch build to Oracle, as that will likely come in sooner.
Have research on Math (at 0%) but perhaps Metal Casting would be better. Probably will be able to trade for Math fairly soon and, together with IW, may be able to get both Alpha and Mono from Peter using MC. Perhaps we should not make that trade until we have met another one or two civs, or else Peter will undercut our trading possibilities. MC will allow us to build forges in Bib and BB and TC and to build a trireme and get circumnavigation.
Concur that we need a plan going forward for which cities are going to represent which face of our god, and we need to decide on marble or stone, and which wonders we are going to try to build. Here is an initial proposal for discussion:
Prophet- Island Town (Not a Great Person generating city nor a high gold producing city but will be useful with Moai Statues): Dun, Temple, Monastery, Cathedral, Moai Statues, Great Wonder generating Great Prophet points (AP?)
Merchant – BB (Has the gold to benefit from the required builds and could construct the GLTH soon): Dun, Temple, Market, Bank, Wall Street, Great Wonder generating Great Merchant points (Glth or Colossus or T of A)
Artist – 6R (Suitable for GP creation but a low production city and the buildings required for Artist fit that) Dun, Temple, Theatre, Broadcast Tower, Globe Theatre, Great Wonder generating Great Artist points (MofM or Taj)
Scientist – Bib (Has gold to benefit from buildings and is in a position to build GLib quickly) Dun, Temple, Library, Lab, Oxford University, Great Wonder generating Great Scientist points (GLib)
General- CC (Not much production here and not much required; plus, this frees it to produce GPs): Dun, Temple, Barracks, Drydock, Heroic Epic, Corporation HQ
Engineer – TC (Not much gold production in this city, so it’s not suitable for Scientist or Merchant, so production is its relative strength and it has forests to chop): Dun, Temple, Forge, Industrial Park, Ironworks, Great Wonder generating Great Engineer points (Mids or HG)
Spy – 6W (Late developing, so suitable for late builds and the earlier courthouse will be useful, and all would be compatible with its capacity for GP production): Dun, Temple, Courthouse, Intelligence Agency, West Point, Great Wonder generating Great Spy points (Kremlin)
I will make an effort to monitor the forum on Monday and try to comment on your comments/plans.
Save is at Central.
Ended cow and sheep trade with Sioux, but Russia has no use for them. Perhaps someone else will. Switched Bib to building mids.
Turn 76 (975 BC): Peter now has Alpha and wants to trade archery for IW. Not interested. He has Poly, but won’t trade it. Get gems mined (don’t believe miss-click delayed).
T77: The Great Lighthouse has been built in a far away land. Peter will now trade Priesthood. Micro-manage to get Mono next turn and guarantee Judaism. Gift Russia gems.
T78: Gain Mono, and Judaism is founded in CC. Trade Mono to Peter for Priesthood. Revolt to OR. Put research on Math at 0%.
T79: I had a problem and lost part of this turn. Thought I had saved game, but apparently not. Had to restart and go to auto save at beginning of turn 79, so had to replay T79 unit moves to point where I exited game. No problem recalling few moves made. Everything seems in order. (That is message I sent to NZ.) Convert to Judaism.
T80: Whip lighthouse in CC into temple
T81: Settle 6R West (calling it 6W for convenience)
T82: Both wkbt and chariot find dead ends at the bottom of the Sioux peninsula and have to abandon further exploration and turn back. Workboat can sail to island to eventually net whale, and chariot can trot back to homeland to await further orders and avoid supply cost.
T84: Peter will now trade Monarchy. (Peter’s willingness to trade suggests that he is in contact with other civs, as doubt Sioux have Alpha and Monarchy, and that means we should find them soon.) BB completes a galley to transport the chariot in 6R west for land exploration. BB is now building a wkbt for 6W. Worker 2 pre-chops plains hill forest 1NW TC. TC whips library into galley to eventually transport settler and a missionary (followed by a worker or two and a warrior) to the island.
T85: Worker 4 pre-chops tundra forest hill 1S1SE of CC. CC whips temple into missionary (suggest that he be whipped soon and sent to Bib to convert that city and that converted city in turn builds one missionary to immediately accompany settler to island city and then at least one more to begin spreading religion and OR advantage.). 6R whips lighthouse into warrior and library.
Notes:
The silver hill being mined for 6W has been partially roaded. Silver (and furs) may prove useful for trade. Other civs look to be in mid-latitudes so fur may be widely desired.
Worker 1 east of Bib can move to cottage the farm north of Bib.
Unless we want the mids in Bib -- and I would advocate that Bib is better suited to be the Science (or arguably the Merchant) city -- then suggest we switch build to Oracle, as that will likely come in sooner.
Have research on Math (at 0%) but perhaps Metal Casting would be better. Probably will be able to trade for Math fairly soon and, together with IW, may be able to get both Alpha and Mono from Peter using MC. Perhaps we should not make that trade until we have met another one or two civs, or else Peter will undercut our trading possibilities. MC will allow us to build forges in Bib and BB and TC and to build a trireme and get circumnavigation.
Concur that we need a plan going forward for which cities are going to represent which face of our god, and we need to decide on marble or stone, and which wonders we are going to try to build. Here is an initial proposal for discussion:
Prophet- Island Town (Not a Great Person generating city nor a high gold producing city but will be useful with Moai Statues): Dun, Temple, Monastery, Cathedral, Moai Statues, Great Wonder generating Great Prophet points (AP?)
Merchant – BB (Has the gold to benefit from the required builds and could construct the GLTH soon): Dun, Temple, Market, Bank, Wall Street, Great Wonder generating Great Merchant points (Glth or Colossus or T of A)
Artist – 6R (Suitable for GP creation but a low production city and the buildings required for Artist fit that) Dun, Temple, Theatre, Broadcast Tower, Globe Theatre, Great Wonder generating Great Artist points (MofM or Taj)
Scientist – Bib (Has gold to benefit from buildings and is in a position to build GLib quickly) Dun, Temple, Library, Lab, Oxford University, Great Wonder generating Great Scientist points (GLib)
General- CC (Not much production here and not much required; plus, this frees it to produce GPs): Dun, Temple, Barracks, Drydock, Heroic Epic, Corporation HQ
Engineer – TC (Not much gold production in this city, so it’s not suitable for Scientist or Merchant, so production is its relative strength and it has forests to chop): Dun, Temple, Forge, Industrial Park, Ironworks, Great Wonder generating Great Engineer points (Mids or HG)
Spy – 6W (Late developing, so suitable for late builds and the earlier courthouse will be useful, and all would be compatible with its capacity for GP production): Dun, Temple, Courthouse, Intelligence Agency, West Point, Great Wonder generating Great Spy points (Kremlin)
I will make an effort to monitor the forum on Monday and try to comment on your comments/plans.
Save is at Central.
Peter is teching much faster then expected. It may be a problem. Maybe we need to ignore using a great prophet and just tech normally?
I positive towards a war with Sitting Bull and settling on Cahokia. We need a lvl 6 unit and Some combat experience and a great general should be enough for that. Why are you expecting that we can trade for silk and incense?
As for prophet city I think the island is to slow at building the AP. CC feels like a better choice. We just need to build the Moai and it should get 20 hammers. I suggest build Moai for one turn and then whip missionary into the Moai. That will be 60-75 hammers. Four chops is 92 more. With mathematics 138. It seems to me that we should tech mathematics before theology so that we may build the AP in reasonable time. We should probably send a second worker there as well. We should have both Theology and Moai in 16 turns. Once we have a reasonable amount of hammers in AP we can trade away Theology for techs with the new AI we are likely to meet.
The AP strategy forces us to build the Eiffel Tower in Merchant city.
To me TC has most gold of our cities. It could work 8 cottages. I suggest we make it our science city and build the great library there. It also have enough food to help with generating great scientists if we want them.
worker 5; I see no reason to improve the fur. A riverside cottage is much better. If we want to trade away fur it would be better to road the fur we have improved.
I positive towards a war with Sitting Bull and settling on Cahokia. We need a lvl 6 unit and Some combat experience and a great general should be enough for that. Why are you expecting that we can trade for silk and incense?
As for prophet city I think the island is to slow at building the AP. CC feels like a better choice. We just need to build the Moai and it should get 20 hammers. I suggest build Moai for one turn and then whip missionary into the Moai. That will be 60-75 hammers. Four chops is 92 more. With mathematics 138. It seems to me that we should tech mathematics before theology so that we may build the AP in reasonable time. We should probably send a second worker there as well. We should have both Theology and Moai in 16 turns. Once we have a reasonable amount of hammers in AP we can trade away Theology for techs with the new AI we are likely to meet.
The AP strategy forces us to build the Eiffel Tower in Merchant city.
To me TC has most gold of our cities. It could work 8 cottages. I suggest we make it our science city and build the great library there. It also have enough food to help with generating great scientists if we want them.
worker 5; I see no reason to improve the fur. A riverside cottage is much better. If we want to trade away fur it would be better to road the fur we have improved.
That makes sense.
At the moment I feel teching theology is more efficient. That would allow us to generate a GP for a golden age and triggering the golden age after we finish AP would allow us to use the by then large population of Canal City to generate 3 more GPs. 3 great merchants could be great for fueling our research.
At the moment I think great merchants are much better than great scientists. A great merchant will give us 1100 gold. Even more if we manage to grow our capital to 12.
If we tech the UN we will loose the AP and the UN is much more work. So we need to build the Eiffel tower to get our broadcasting tower which is needed.
Taking Cahokia should not be to bad. We just need HBR and whip 8 horse archers. If you feel island city is better I'm fine with that. It allows us to concentrate on setting up our victory.
I think the AI started in contact with each other. I see no way for Peter to have come into contact with Sitting bull without open border with us.
How long do you expect it to take to get 11 people on CC? Did you calculate OR bonus on the overflow?
How would Bib get enough food to work 8 cottages and 2 gems mines?
At the moment I think great merchants are much better than great scientists. A great merchant will give us 1100 gold. Even more if we manage to grow our capital to 12.
If we tech the UN we will loose the AP and the UN is much more work. So we need to build the Eiffel tower to get our broadcasting tower which is needed.
Taking Cahokia should not be to bad. We just need HBR and whip 8 horse archers. If you feel island city is better I'm fine with that. It allows us to concentrate on setting up our victory.
I think the AI started in contact with each other. I see no way for Peter to have come into contact with Sitting bull without open border with us.
How long do you expect it to take to get 11 people on CC? Did you calculate OR bonus on the overflow?
How would Bib get enough food to work 8 cottages and 2 gems mines?
At the moment I feel teching theology is more efficient. [I understand that, and you have a good argument and a reasonable plan, but please respond more specifically to my comments on your earlier post so I can be confident that I understand exactly what you are planning.] That would allow us to generate a GP for a golden age [Do you mean by using the 2 Priests that the AP gives plus the one available from the temple?] and triggering the golden age after we finish AP would allow us to use the by then large population of Canal City to generate 3 more GPs. 3 great merchants could be great for fueling our research. Are you suggesting we would revolt to Caste within the GA and run merchants? If so, because the AP in CC will contaminate our GP creation pool there going forward with 2 GPriests, wouldn’t we be better off doing that in 6R or 6W where there is not the contamination?
At the moment I think great merchants are much better than great scientists. A great merchant will give us 1100 gold. Even more if we manage to grow our capital to 12. Appreciate the value of a GM, but what about an early GS to build an academy in Bib (or TC if that becomes our science city)?
If we tech the UN we will loose the AP and the UN is much more work. So we need to build the Eiffel tower to get our broadcasting tower which is needed. So, that way we wouldn’t have to tech Mass Media, but we’d have to build the E Tower probably without iron? Please respond as to whether that is your thinking.
Taking Cahokia should not be to bad. We just need HBR and whip 8 horse archers. The Sioux have 2 hill cities defended by archers (the returning chariot can report how many) and the capital has expanded twice, so not sure 8 will be enough, but certainly don’t see it as a great problem if we are willing to dedicate the resources. If you feel island city is better I'm fine with that. It allows us to concentrate on setting up our victory. Okay, how about setting up the city/face-of-god scenario you’re proposing (or just revise mine).
I think the AI started in contact with each other. I see no way for Peter to have come into contact with Sitting bull without open border with us. Interesting . . . Is there an option in the game set up that would allow the map maker to set that up?
How long do you expect it to take to get 11 people on CC? Couldn’t do it and run cottages before Biology, but I'm happy to stay at ten -- see below. Did you calculate OR bonus on the overflow? Yes, but I may be missing something, Have you reviewed your calculations?
How would Bib get enough food to work 8 cottages and 2 gems mines? With Biology it might be possible, but I wouldn’t want to try. Even so, would argue that it’s a better science city for us than TC, because it already has high commerce (thanks in part to being the capital) and it’s much closer to ready to take advantage of an academy and better suited to build the GLib quickly and a lab and Oxford eventually. Further, the cottages that will have to be built and aged in TC will either not have initial commerce from a river or will lack a hammer. In short, they will not be great cottages and they won’t be productive anytime soon. Also, if we run 8 cottages in TC, we will only have the food to also run one mine, so productivity there will be limited. Would argue that we will want to whip often in TC, and whipping is not cottage friendly.
At the moment I think great merchants are much better than great scientists. A great merchant will give us 1100 gold. Even more if we manage to grow our capital to 12. Appreciate the value of a GM, but what about an early GS to build an academy in Bib (or TC if that becomes our science city)?
If we tech the UN we will loose the AP and the UN is much more work. So we need to build the Eiffel tower to get our broadcasting tower which is needed. So, that way we wouldn’t have to tech Mass Media, but we’d have to build the E Tower probably without iron? Please respond as to whether that is your thinking.
Taking Cahokia should not be to bad. We just need HBR and whip 8 horse archers. The Sioux have 2 hill cities defended by archers (the returning chariot can report how many) and the capital has expanded twice, so not sure 8 will be enough, but certainly don’t see it as a great problem if we are willing to dedicate the resources. If you feel island city is better I'm fine with that. It allows us to concentrate on setting up our victory. Okay, how about setting up the city/face-of-god scenario you’re proposing (or just revise mine).
I think the AI started in contact with each other. I see no way for Peter to have come into contact with Sitting bull without open border with us. Interesting . . . Is there an option in the game set up that would allow the map maker to set that up?
How long do you expect it to take to get 11 people on CC? Couldn’t do it and run cottages before Biology, but I'm happy to stay at ten -- see below. Did you calculate OR bonus on the overflow? Yes, but I may be missing something, Have you reviewed your calculations?
How would Bib get enough food to work 8 cottages and 2 gems mines? With Biology it might be possible, but I wouldn’t want to try. Even so, would argue that it’s a better science city for us than TC, because it already has high commerce (thanks in part to being the capital) and it’s much closer to ready to take advantage of an academy and better suited to build the GLib quickly and a lab and Oxford eventually. Further, the cottages that will have to be built and aged in TC will either not have initial commerce from a river or will lack a hammer. In short, they will not be great cottages and they won’t be productive anytime soon. Also, if we run 8 cottages in TC, we will only have the food to also run one mine, so productivity there will be limited. Would argue that we will want to whip often in TC, and whipping is not cottage friendly.
Prophet- CC: Dun, Temple, Monastery, Cathedral, Moai Statues, Great Wonder generating Great Prophet points (AP)
We will also add the national epic here to help with GPs.
Merchant – BB
un, Temple, Market, Bank, Wall Street, Great Wonder generating Great Merchant points (Eiffel tower)Artist – 6R:Dun, Temple, Theatre, Broadcast Tower, Globe Theatre, Great Wonder generating Great Artist points (MoM)
I prefer MoM as it is cheaper and will probably give us as many turns of GA as the Taj.
Scientist – Bib: Dun, Temple, Library, Lab, Oxford University, Great Wonder generating Great Scientist points (GLib)
Let us start running two scientists in TC now to get an acadamy for this city. More reason not to generate a great prophet.
General- island or Cahokia: Dun, Temple, Barracks, Drydock, Heroic Epic, Corporation HQ
Engineer – TC
un, Temple, Forge, Industrial Park, Ironworks, Great Wonder generating Great Engineer points (Mids or HG) I think I prefer mids. It will help with our research and is cheaper happiness then hereditary rule.
Spy – 6W
un, Temple, Courthouse, Intelligence Agency, West Point, Great Wonder generating Great Spy points (Kremlin) I now see that you place 6W only 5W so we will not have happiness from whale for quite a while.
Do the AP give priests? No. Or are you talking about the 2 Great Prophet points? The points. I do not think the pollution is that bad as a great prophet we can just keep for a second GA. Sure, but it’s not optimal.
I have been thinking and I agree that Bibracte is better for science city. It will also get the Buraeucracy bonus which we need to make Peter happy. Well, that’s a closing argument.
Have no iron is to bad but I think it will still be cheaper then conquest. Can we keep our forests for 200 hammers? Presume you are referring to BB. If so, then there are also several forests just outside the cross that can also contribute significant hammers. If we go factory and hydro plant it will be 400. We can try to stack chances for a GE as well. But I think we will tech Radio before industrialism and just farm up with biology allowing us to work lumber mills and us whip with Kremlin bonus. That’s all stuff I’ve never gotten to in a game, so please be prepared to do some educating.
I look at the strengh of archer and I had forgotten they have extra strength on hills as well. We will need 2 horse archer for each archer in Cahokia + two extra as Sitting Bull may whip one on our way there. I’m for settling the island, so there’s no great rush. Let’s see how the game goes. There may be options other than HAs.
I think the AI started in contact with each other. I see no way for Peter to have come into contact with Sitting bull without open border with us. Interesting . . . Is there an option in the game set up that would allow the map maker to set that up?
Yes Then I concur that we should assume that’s the case.
So 17 become 21. Had that. Then whipping a missionary will give 30 overflow + 5 production turning into 43 hammers so 64 hammers. I calculated getting about 28 overflow, which is similar, but I missed adding in the 5 production from the turn. Appreciate the clarification.
If we are not going conquest we have very little we need to whip. We probably should not whip very much. but then we can just whip is heavily now to conquer Sitting Bull. Isn’t building the mids there a much more immediate need than getting GG points fighting the Sioux?
Prophet- CC: Dun, Temple, Monastery, Cathedral, Moai Statues, Great Wonder generating Great Prophet points (AP)
We will also add the national epic here to help with GPs. I’m liking the NEpic in 6R or 6W. Isn’t running GPs where you have Moai sub-optimal?
Merchant – BB un, Temple, Market, Bank, Wall Street, Great Wonder generating Great Merchant points (Eiffel tower)
Artist – 6R:Dun, Temple, Theatre, Broadcast Tower, Globe Theatre, Great Wonder generating Great Artist points (MoM)
I prefer MoM as it is cheaper and will probably give us as many turns of GA as the Taj. Concur – just listed the Taj because it’s a good fall back option.
Scientist – Bib: Dun, Temple, Library, Lab, Oxford University, Great Wonder generating Great Scientist points (GLib)
Let us start running two scientists in TC now to get an acadamy for this city. More reason not to generate a great prophet. Like that, but let’s let TC grow one turn first.
General- island or Cahokia: Dun, Temple, Barracks, Drydock, Heroic Epic, Corporation HQ. Definitely prefer the island, and stone is fine, if that’s still your preference. BTW, when settling 6W, I was assuming we would get access to whales via the island city.
Engineer – TC un, Temple, Forge, Industrial Park, Ironworks, Great Wonder generating Great Engineer points (Mids or HG)
I think I prefer mids. It will help with our research and is cheaper happiness then hereditary rule. Again, concur – just listed as a good option.
Spy – 6W un, Temple, Courthouse, Intelligence Agency, West Point, Great Wonder generating Great Spy points (Kremlin)
I now see that you place 6W only 5W so we will not have happiness from whale for quite a while. Let’s settle the island so this is not a problem.
If you’re willing to go with the island city, seems we’ve about worked out a mutually agreeable plan and possibly a winning one.
On building the Moai statues: If we are first to Theology -- and we’ve agreed to tech it right away, so we should be – then the AI is less likely to research it. That makes waiting for Stone to be quarried on the island before chopping CC’s forests a less problematic option. It will be even less risky if we get Alpha soon and make contact with other civs so we can monitor whether they have Theology. So, let’s consider pre-chopping all of CC’s forests (perhaps with the possible exception of the tundra hill, which we may want to mine quickly) and not finishing the chops until they will complete the Moai (which would not slow us down). This will not be inefficient, as CC’s forest have been connected by roads, including those outside the cross that will also add significant production. If we learn something that makes the AI threat to build the AP more existential, then we can finish the chopping before we have stone. If not, by waiting for stone, we get Moai and gain considerable hammers toward the AP. This might even be the fastest way to complete the AP,even if the AI do gain Theo.
Suggest that the missionary we whip into Moai for CC be sent to Bib to convert that city so it can immediately build a missionary for the island. This delays the island settling a few turns but allows us to continue producing missionaries in Bib and spreading them, which is pretty powerful.
We need to progress. I can play if you can't, but would prefer not to play a turn set again until Saturday when I have a large block of free time available. Can you play before then? If so, post a plan if you think it appropriate or just go ahead and play. I would appreciate your thoughts on any of my comments above that you are in disagreement with.
I have been thinking and I agree that Bibracte is better for science city. It will also get the Buraeucracy bonus which we need to make Peter happy. Well, that’s a closing argument.
Have no iron is to bad but I think it will still be cheaper then conquest. Can we keep our forests for 200 hammers? Presume you are referring to BB. If so, then there are also several forests just outside the cross that can also contribute significant hammers. If we go factory and hydro plant it will be 400. We can try to stack chances for a GE as well. But I think we will tech Radio before industrialism and just farm up with biology allowing us to work lumber mills and us whip with Kremlin bonus. That’s all stuff I’ve never gotten to in a game, so please be prepared to do some educating.
I look at the strengh of archer and I had forgotten they have extra strength on hills as well. We will need 2 horse archer for each archer in Cahokia + two extra as Sitting Bull may whip one on our way there. I’m for settling the island, so there’s no great rush. Let’s see how the game goes. There may be options other than HAs.
I think the AI started in contact with each other. I see no way for Peter to have come into contact with Sitting bull without open border with us. Interesting . . . Is there an option in the game set up that would allow the map maker to set that up?
Yes Then I concur that we should assume that’s the case.
So 17 become 21. Had that. Then whipping a missionary will give 30 overflow + 5 production turning into 43 hammers so 64 hammers. I calculated getting about 28 overflow, which is similar, but I missed adding in the 5 production from the turn. Appreciate the clarification.
If we are not going conquest we have very little we need to whip. We probably should not whip very much. but then we can just whip is heavily now to conquer Sitting Bull. Isn’t building the mids there a much more immediate need than getting GG points fighting the Sioux?
Prophet- CC: Dun, Temple, Monastery, Cathedral, Moai Statues, Great Wonder generating Great Prophet points (AP)
We will also add the national epic here to help with GPs. I’m liking the NEpic in 6R or 6W. Isn’t running GPs where you have Moai sub-optimal?
Merchant – BB un, Temple, Market, Bank, Wall Street, Great Wonder generating Great Merchant points (Eiffel tower)
Artist – 6R:Dun, Temple, Theatre, Broadcast Tower, Globe Theatre, Great Wonder generating Great Artist points (MoM)
I prefer MoM as it is cheaper and will probably give us as many turns of GA as the Taj. Concur – just listed the Taj because it’s a good fall back option.
Scientist – Bib: Dun, Temple, Library, Lab, Oxford University, Great Wonder generating Great Scientist points (GLib)
Let us start running two scientists in TC now to get an acadamy for this city. More reason not to generate a great prophet. Like that, but let’s let TC grow one turn first.
General- island or Cahokia: Dun, Temple, Barracks, Drydock, Heroic Epic, Corporation HQ. Definitely prefer the island, and stone is fine, if that’s still your preference. BTW, when settling 6W, I was assuming we would get access to whales via the island city.
Engineer – TC un, Temple, Forge, Industrial Park, Ironworks, Great Wonder generating Great Engineer points (Mids or HG)
I think I prefer mids. It will help with our research and is cheaper happiness then hereditary rule. Again, concur – just listed as a good option.
Spy – 6W un, Temple, Courthouse, Intelligence Agency, West Point, Great Wonder generating Great Spy points (Kremlin)
I now see that you place 6W only 5W so we will not have happiness from whale for quite a while. Let’s settle the island so this is not a problem.
If you’re willing to go with the island city, seems we’ve about worked out a mutually agreeable plan and possibly a winning one.
On building the Moai statues: If we are first to Theology -- and we’ve agreed to tech it right away, so we should be – then the AI is less likely to research it. That makes waiting for Stone to be quarried on the island before chopping CC’s forests a less problematic option. It will be even less risky if we get Alpha soon and make contact with other civs so we can monitor whether they have Theology. So, let’s consider pre-chopping all of CC’s forests (perhaps with the possible exception of the tundra hill, which we may want to mine quickly) and not finishing the chops until they will complete the Moai (which would not slow us down). This will not be inefficient, as CC’s forest have been connected by roads, including those outside the cross that will also add significant production. If we learn something that makes the AI threat to build the AP more existential, then we can finish the chopping before we have stone. If not, by waiting for stone, we get Moai and gain considerable hammers toward the AP. This might even be the fastest way to complete the AP,even if the AI do gain Theo.
Suggest that the missionary we whip into Moai for CC be sent to Bib to convert that city so it can immediately build a missionary for the island. This delays the island settling a few turns but allows us to continue producing missionaries in Bib and spreading them, which is pretty powerful.
We need to progress. I can play if you can't, but would prefer not to play a turn set again until Saturday when I have a large block of free time available. Can you play before then? If so, post a plan if you think it appropriate or just go ahead and play. I would appreciate your thoughts on any of my comments above that you are in disagreement with.
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Okay. if you will post your plan, I will try to look at it Friday morning (my time) and post comments by 1 PM my time on Friday (7 PM your time). Then you can play and post Friday evening (your time). I will try to look at the save and post a plan early Saturday (my time), so you can comment on it Saturday afternoon, hopefully before I play later on Saturday (beginning about 3;30 PM my time, 9:30 your time). (I'm curious to know what you are teaching.)
Couple of thoughts:
I'm concerned about getting mids built before the AI. We need two missionaries ASAP out of a converted Bib -- the first for the island city and another for TC to facilitate mids -- so consider whipping the first Bib missionary into a second one.
Also,TC's production is limited. What about building a worker there (after one turn of growth) and whipping it (with 2 citizens) into the needed galley (which needs to start sailing west at least one turn before the missionary is completed and moves with a settler SW), and the overflow can go into the mids. The extra worker can help us pre-chop in TC for the mids and be transported to the island with a second worker to speed roads and the quarry improvement (before being returned to TC).
Sorry, I was going to post a plan yesterday but the day just went away.
I pretty much agree on your points.
PPP:
Build 1 missionary in CC. Plant in Bibracte
Build missionaries in Bibracte. First goes to island, second goes to Peter. I want peter to convert to Judaism as soon as possible to prevent Christianity from spreading there. Afterwards spread to our towns.
Run 2 scientists in TC for an acadamy in Bibracte.
Prechop wood in Canal city for chops into Moai with stone.
Settle stone once second missionary is available. Island city will start building granary. If theology is before missionary it should be settled without missionary so that we hopefully do not get christianity in 6W.
TC starts to build pyramids.
Beaver bay should grow to size 9 and then work 4 cottages and stagnate. While building fail gold.
6R should build library, then fail gold and maybe some overflow hammer into gold.
6W will whip monument on size 3. Then build granary.
worker 3 will build road to horses then prechop forests and once borders expand improve horses.
I pretty much agree on your points.
PPP:
Build 1 missionary in CC. Plant in Bibracte
Build missionaries in Bibracte. First goes to island, second goes to Peter. I want peter to convert to Judaism as soon as possible to prevent Christianity from spreading there. Afterwards spread to our towns.
Run 2 scientists in TC for an acadamy in Bibracte.
Prechop wood in Canal city for chops into Moai with stone.
Settle stone once second missionary is available. Island city will start building granary. If theology is before missionary it should be settled without missionary so that we hopefully do not get christianity in 6W.
TC starts to build pyramids.
Beaver bay should grow to size 9 and then work 4 cottages and stagnate. While building fail gold.
6R should build library, then fail gold and maybe some overflow hammer into gold.
6W will whip monument on size 3. Then build granary.
worker 3 will build road to horses then prechop forests and once borders expand improve horses.
Fine with this. Lack of comments is approval, and other comments are just suggestions.
Make note of what units chariot finds roaming Sioux territory. BTW, that chariot could replace warrior in CC and that warrior could then be taken to the island city.
Please go ahead and play and post tonight, then I will try to look at save Saturday morning and post a plan in time for you to comment before 9:30 PM your time.
turn 87
Got judaism for free in Bibracte. Galley turns around to settle island as galley in TC is slow to build.
Oracle was built somewhere.
Two archers in Cahokia.
turn 88
one dog warrior and one archer in Poverty point.
Traded iron working and Mathematics for Alphabet. Sitting Bull only wants to trade archery. We could steal archery and Meditation from him.
turn 90
Judaism spread to TC.
turn 91
Sitting Bull has Monarchy. I gift him writing.
turn 92
traded Alphabet, Polytheism and Masonry for Monarchy.
turn 93
Peter got Astetics.
Sitting bull is teching Code of law.
turn 94
I see a white border west of Russia. Probably England or Germany?
turn 95
Great spy in Moscow.
Christianity was founded in 6R, which is not great.
Got judaism for free in Bibracte. Galley turns around to settle island as galley in TC is slow to build.
Oracle was built somewhere.
Two archers in Cahokia.
turn 88
one dog warrior and one archer in Poverty point.
Traded iron working and Mathematics for Alphabet. Sitting Bull only wants to trade archery. We could steal archery and Meditation from him.
turn 90
Judaism spread to TC.
turn 91
Sitting Bull has Monarchy. I gift him writing.
turn 92
traded Alphabet, Polytheism and Masonry for Monarchy.
turn 93
Peter got Astetics.
Sitting bull is teching Code of law.
turn 94
I see a white border west of Russia. Probably England or Germany?
turn 95
Great spy in Moscow.
Christianity was founded in 6R, which is not great.
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